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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/2/2007 11:29:43 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, our local PD "lost" about 50 assault rifles, so they got plenty enough apparently.



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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/2/2007 1:09:41 PM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Well, the FBI "lost" 140 THOUSAND laptops...guess people leave things in unlocked cars/open safes/public benches too much...
But again, the "problem" that is usually given LOCALLY is "We can't afford new guns/ammo"--why not just take AND USE the ones that were formerly used against you?

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/2/2007 7:34:34 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

Fewer guns would not lower the crime rate. People will still comit crimes, for example the BP station down the street has been robed 18 times in the last 6 months and acording to the manager who has worked there since it opened that scariest weapon ever brandisted at her was a baseball bat when a bunch of hicks pulled a American History X on them. So guns don't cause crime they are merly tools for our use what we do with them is our choice.
I keep my favorite gun within reach at all times (a Rageing Bull .44 Magnum) I would be less likly to use let alone own as many guns as I do were it not for mt job and the truck loads of Rednecks who ride around causeing trouble and shooting up the place.(think Mad Max)



Joanus, "truckloads of rednecks?"
Where do they all come from?
They just out for a drive or something?

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/2/2007 9:09:07 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Well, the FBI "lost" 140 THOUSAND laptops...guess people leave things in unlocked cars/open safes/public benches too much...
But again, the "problem" that is usually given LOCALLY is "We can't afford new guns/ammo"--why not just take AND USE the ones that were formerly used against you?


sort of like the 1/4 million rifles we lost.  More like they all get funnelled somewhere.


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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/3/2007 3:47:08 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns....

dont you folks read bumper stickers for petes sake?

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/3/2007 5:52:06 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Actually. it is:

"When guns are outlawed, only the police will have guns"...

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/3/2007 7:13:27 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Actually. it is:

"When guns are outlawed, only the police will have guns"...


cops/outlaws.....some days tis hard to tell the difference

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/3/2007 3:48:42 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns....

dont you folks read bumper stickers for petes sake?

'
I doubt people bothered to watch the video that lays out the evidence how more arms and reduced crime go hand in hand....and that recent stats since that washington right to carry decision.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/3/2007 4:26:10 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		Bearing guns or gun control has really no bearing on crime rates,  the media is a much more powerful weaponfor cause and effect  combined with sudden jumps in inflation.

When the media that showing graphic  school  shootings suddenly a rash of copy cat shooting occured most of the televsion programming in Canada is US based so what media shows here also get copied  stuff like youth mimicing gangs, mobbing, shooting robberies etc, etc, etc it was stuff that was pretty much unheard of in my youth and we could not bear arms then just like today.  When the goverment put a $20  increase on a carton of cigarettes a few years back , armed robberies went thru the roof , many variety stores simply closed up at night because it became too dangerous to stay open , eventually to decrease the level of crime that was occuring the government lower the price of cigarettes again and did only slow gradual increases. it is no different that what has occured in the US after hurricanes when there is suddenly a shortage of money supplies , you have sudden sharp increases of crimes occuring gun control or lack of is not going to stop it from occuring, I can say with almost 100% certainty if a stock market crash occured as what happened in 1929  things will get extremely nasty, but I would much rather be living here in Canada  than some  metropolitan city in the US, I drove thru a couple areas of the US 30 years ago in brodad daylight and even then the only way to feel safe was to have windows fully up and doors locked, I have drove thru slum areas here including reserves and never felt that intense need. 

I was just thinking about another thing....  it might be interesting to google crime rates in some of the larger US cities and compare them to Toronto which is the 5th largest city in North America,  hand guns  were banned  over 30 years ago  and weapon use here is restricted to mostly just hunting with heavy restrictions over the last 10, I have no idea when in Canada, guns were last allowed to be used for protection of home of family my guess is it was over 50 years ago (some exception for farmers)  I would thing crime rates involving guns would be far far less since less available guns here for criminals to get their hands on  but I do believe per capita the overall crime rate  is still far less than many major US cities. 




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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/3/2007 5:31:15 PM   
thornhappy


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Joined: 12/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Well, the FBI "lost" 140 THOUSAND laptops...guess people leave things in unlocked cars/open safes/public benches too much...
But again, the "problem" that is usually given LOCALLY is "We can't afford new guns/ammo"--why not just take AND USE the ones that were formerly used against you?

Where did that stat come from?  Looks like a hell of a lot less:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/12/fbi.laptops/index.html

thornhappy

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/3/2007 10:56:48 PM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Every year, it's a different number, but that was my best attempt at adding them all up...

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/4/2007 8:47:53 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Every year, it's a different number, but that was my best attempt at adding them all up...

I hope you're better at fixing computers than you are at basic math.

Report: FBI Loses 3 To 4 Laptops Every Month

For the sake of argument, let's assume that five are being lost every month.  In order to lose 140,000, they would have had to start losing them in the year 326 BC.

~stef


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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/4/2007 1:20:17 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		John Stossel fan or not, this is not new news.  I've been reading reports about this for years.

Murder is illegal; people still do it.
Shoplifting is illegal; people still do it.
Speeding is illegal; people still do it.

So make guns illegal - oh yeah, a sure way of stopping people from using them (not).  Instead, it will create a black market for them (drug law debate, anyone?), and will make criminals out of people who would otherwise not be.  I own a gun.  Make it illegal for me to do so, and I'll be a criminal. Me, someone with four levels of firearms training and who knows what I am doing with one.

You want to get rid of crime?  Deal with the criminals, not the tools they use.

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/5/2007 7:10:15 AM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		They can't agree on how many were stolen, or even what was on them. http://www.caslon.com.au/datalossnote3.htm This site claims 11 were stolen each month...
http://www.landfield.com/isn/mail-archive/2002/Aug/0037.html
This one claims 317...
And oddly, even though I ran this same search last week, the numbers are all different now...Different sites have come up, old ones have disappeared...Of course, I might have misread the articles and seen 15,000 stolen...IDENTITIES...Wait, is that supposed to make us feel better or worse?
Coupled with the fact that they can't even remember whether the laptops contained "sensitive information" or not (Although who's to say what constitutes "sensitive information" or not with Bush's new Cult of Secrecy?)
The DEA, according to several of these articles, can't even remember how many laptops they had, nor how many were stolen, due to sloppy bookkeeping...Thanks for valuing our tax-dollars so highly, guys!
http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2002/08/06/WorldNation/Agencies.Missing.Weapons.Laptops-500705.shtml
Also notice that some of their guns were stolen, not just the laptops...Don't the bad guys already have better guns than the law-enforcers? Or are they just doing this for proof-of-concept? They can steal anyTHING they want, from anyONE they want, and the good guys have not the means nor the will to protect their own?

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/5/2007 10:00:23 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

Fewer guns would not lower the crime rate. People will still comit crimes, for example the BP station down the street has been robed 18 times in the last 6 months and acording to the manager who has worked there since it opened that scariest weapon ever brandisted at her was a baseball bat when a bunch of hicks pulled a American History X on them. So guns don't cause crime they are merly tools for our use what we do with them is our choice.
I keep my favorite gun within reach at all times (a Rageing Bull .44 Magnum) I would be less likly to use let alone own as many guns as I do were it not for mt job and the truck loads of Rednecks who ride around causeing trouble and shooting up the place.(think Mad Max)



Joanus, "truckloads of rednecks?"
Where do they all come from?
They just out for a drive or something?


Personally I think they spawn on the restroom floors of Country Western Bars.
Yes not sunday drive is complete with out a loaded shotgun.
I have know idea what or if they are thinking Popeye but it sure scares the hell out of me.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/5/2007 10:13:24 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		I know I'm gonna get slammed for this, but... did anyone else see "Bowling for Columbine?" I thought Moore made the point quite well that the reason we Americans are so friggin' violent is because we live in a culture of fear and paranoia. He compared the levels of gun ownership here in the US with those of Canada, which are very similar, and found that Canada doesn't have 1/20 of the violent crime we do... because we're the ones inundated with media mesages telling us that everyone and everything is out to get us!

I'm a long time gun owner, and (unfortunately, because of an unwanted Christmas gift from a relative) a life time member of the NRA. I have to deviate with their mantra about "guns for everyone, no restrictions" I strongly believe that if you want to own a gun, then fine, but you should have to take a test and prove you know how to use it, and take care of it, properly. Same as getting a driver's lisence. Half the time we hear about gun related deaths, it seems, is because some dolt didn't know what he was doing.

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/5/2007 4:31:53 PM   
Leonardo


Posts: 113
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline 		I have to tend to agree that gun control reduces crime. If you can control your gun and hit your mark, then you can reduce crime.

If, on the other hand, you can't hit the side of a barn when you shoot, then you really have no gun control at all.

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/5/2007 4:37:21 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		 
Actually last year the city I lived in passed a law allowing for the use of specified firearms without a permit.  Since then the number of violent crimes has risen quite a bit.  The kneejerk reaction to the people that were opposed to the change in the permit law is "well duh".  However, I doubt it has much to do with it honestly.  People that use guns to commit violent crimes don't get permits.  I just find it humorous politiking and thought I would share.

Incidentally, at the same time as the new permit law, we passed some rather restrictive laws such as smoking and adult stores/distribution of any type....we can carry guns but damn it we can't smoke or have kinky sex...maybe that's the reason for the increase huh?

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 11/5/2007 4:54:58 PM >

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RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime - 11/5/2007 6:25:27 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Just look at the cities with the stricktest gun control laws, Boston, Washington, NYC, L.A. all very violent cities with high violent crime rates.
Boston has been having some very bad gang wars for the last 3 or 4 years with a lot of people getting shot and killed and no end in sight.

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Profile   Post #: 39
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