Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/1/2007 10:29:30 PM)

Discuss this video

Gun Control Is not Crime Control.   (Just ask the UK!)





pinkme2 -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/1/2007 10:42:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Discuss this video

Gun Control Is not Crime Control.   (Just ask the UK!)



Thanks for the link.  I love John Stossel. [:D]




popeye1250 -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/1/2007 11:53:51 PM)

No shit!!!




MissMagnolia -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/1/2007 11:56:13 PM)

Shouldn't that be "discuss this video please"?




Termyn8or -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 12:03:52 AM)

No need to see it. If it were actual MFs getting blown away by people getting out of bed in the middle of the night, I would want to see that.

I got the next best thing to a gun handy, a camshaft for a 350. It is very efffective. I can kill with it, although this hasn't yet been proven, I am sure of it. The end of a camshaft shoved in your face, without a gear. The point contact pressure is more than I can punch, and that is alot.

I don't want to go into details, but they want my guns. Fukum. They get nothing from me. And I take nothing from them, and I am one of the few people who can can say that. I pay for everything, like use of the roads and sewers, ala carte. And all this with this little problem. I have to come up with about a thousand in like ten days. This along with trying to live.

Why is this a point ? Let me tell you people, there is a class of people who will not hurt people or steal from them under any circumstances, I am almost one. I strive to be. But there are others.

When times get tough they will be there to take from you. Of that there is no doubt. When that comes to you, I hope you are ready. Be a sleeper. Even if you live in the inner city like I do, keep your standards.

But you see normal regular people will start playing the game, drugs and theft, they will do it because their morality has very shallow roots. In the rare instances where I have to "play the game" I not only strive to do it very well, I strive to win. I mean really win.

Other things can be weapons, and that is part of the point. I know they are going to take the guns away here, but I doubt they will take the camshafts. If I take this old camshaft and shove it at your face, if you happen to be really fast you might be able to defend against it, but if not you are in worse shape than if you got shot.

This is bad, if you are not fast enough, it goes through the front teeth and pounds the back of your throat. I would rather be shot.

When they take the guns we just have to be more resourceful. A few heavy pieces of metal and people who know how to use them, that might work, but there are many things. We don't even need fertilizer, there are many household compounds that make very strong poisons or bombs if mixed just right.

They can never take our wealth, it only appears so as long as we are addicted to their money that they peint. One day that will change, and I don't have to lift a finger, humanity has a history of getting rid of oppresion. Sometimes with inferior weapons, but with superior smarts and ways to use what was available to them.

Of course in the last 1,000 years or so this has changed, when people started to get into others' business. When countries decided what religion another country must adopt, when they must adopt the exact form of democracy the US proscribes. Had a look at the EOs lately ?

It has always been them against us, and we almost always win. They get lazy, they have a hard time eating potato chips, while we have lathes and milling machines in our attics and know how to use them. Who do you think will win in the end ?

Take the guns, we can make more. And maybe a few better things if forced to. People who do not like the way things are going number in the millions, possiby billions. You think that none of these people have any skills, creativity or ambition ? Think again, it is these same things that fuel the monster we have created.

What we create, we can destroy. That is a law of nature.

Bye for now, be well.

T





LadyEllen -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 3:57:25 AM)

Oh - please dont get me started on this one again!?

But since you have.... a summation of the situation as I see it -
1) Criminals will use guns in the performance of their crimes
2) Criminals will use any other weapon if they dont have a gun
3) No gun has ever been put on trial or convicted of any crime
4) Banning guns has not led to any decrease in crime and we have seen gun crime escalate enormously

E




meatcleaver -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 4:22:08 AM)

Nobody ever said banning guns reduces crime. Criminals will use guns if they can get hold of them. The point is that in countries where guns are restricted there are dramatically less deaths by fire arms and less police killed by firearms.




meatcleaver -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 4:26:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Discuss this video

Gun Control Is not Crime Control.   (Just ask the UK!)




Actually gun crime in Britain is largely limited to drug gangs and very rarely comes out of the ghetto. The reason for the soft approach by the police is because they are careful about being accused of racism. But if you think that walking round like John Wayne is an attractive thing, then fine.




joanus -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 6:15:04 AM)

Fewer guns would not lower the crime rate. People will still comit crimes, for example the BP station down the street has been robed 18 times in the last 6 months and acording to the manager who has worked there since it opened that scariest weapon ever brandisted at her was a baseball bat when a bunch of hicks pulled a American History X on them. So guns don't cause crime they are merly tools for our use what we do with them is our choice.
I keep my favorite gun within reach at all times (a Rageing Bull .44 Magnum) I would be less likly to use let alone own as many guns as I do were it not for mt job and the truck loads of Rednecks who ride around causeing trouble and shooting up the place.(think Mad Max)




sub4hire -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 7:00:06 AM)

Look into Australias crime rate since they banned guns...knives, so on and so forth. 
You'll have your answers.




SugarMyChurro -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 7:23:22 AM)

Slight digression here...

John Stossel is an utter moron and hypocrite. See:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/john-stossel-is-a-patholo_b_21903.html

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/18/wife-of-victim-from-michael-moores-sicko-responds-to-stossel-hit-piece/#more-21500

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Doctor-D-slaps-John-Stossel.mov

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/articles_2004/millionaire_welfare_queen_stossel.html

This follows on the heels of Meatcleaver's recent comment that the media is absolutely bought and paid for by those that do not want to step down from their positions of authority and power. Stossel is in the way of the paid performer that spouts the party line and manufactures the appearance of evidence.

Stossel routinely benefits from hand-outs from organizations like FEMA while publicly deriding them. And this is a well paid television reporter taking that money, yeah? That's called hyprocrisy - pure and simple.

Too stupid...don't believe a word of it.





SugarMyChurro -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 7:42:15 AM)

Oh yeah, FWIW I own guns. That's not a thing I would dispute as being important.

I just don't give a shit about anything John Stossel says about anything.

One more item on this idiot (can you say "human shit"?):
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509080021




Real0ne -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 8:40:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Too stupid...don't believe a word of it.



So you are discrediting stossel for showing the evidence and demonstrating that gun control has failed?   Whats your point?  Shoot the messenger?  






Real0ne -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 8:51:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

4) Banning guns has not led to any decrease in crime and we have seen gun crime escalate enormously

E


People tend to think that using the childish tactic of taking things away stops or reduces crime.   The point here is that while you can do that with a child since you control everything in that childs life you cannot do that with an adult because an adult is going to get a gun and anyway and do whatever they intended in the first place.  It seems there is no identifiable connection between the notion that (greater gun control = less crime) {gun or otherwise}, and I would make the case that less gun control ultimately = less crime = less gun crime as well.

My reasoning is that often during a robbery whatever, if the intended victim brandishes a gun the perp run away.

It seems the washington statistics would support this?







meatcleaver -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 8:55:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

4) Banning guns has not led to any decrease in crime and we have seen gun crime escalate enormously

E


People tend to think that using the childish tactic of taking things away stops or reduces crime.   The point here is that while you can do that with a child since you control everything in that childs life you cannot do that with an adult because an adult is going to get a gun and anyway and do whatever they intended in the first place.  It seems there is no identifiable connection between the notion that (greater gun control = less crime) {gun or otherwise}, and I would make the case that less gun control ultimately = less crime = less gun crime as well.

My reasoning is that often during a robbery whatever, if the intended victim brandishes a gun the perp run away.

It seems the washington statistics would support this?



According to the gun lobby logic, every country in the world should have nuclear and biological weapons to make the world a safer place.




Real0ne -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 9:02:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
According to the gun lobby logic, every country in the world should have nuclear and biological weapons to make the world a safer place.


I dont think the gun lobby was mentioned?  They did show actual statistics for washington and kennessee if that counts for anything.

(correction: police testimony for kennessee)







EPGAH -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 9:13:38 AM)

While I think our military and/or police should have better guns than the criminals, otherwise, I think honest people having a gun is a good deterrent to criminals! (Always less fun for them when they think their next victim will be their LAST![;)])
Most states have some variant of the "Man's House Is His Castle" Law--to wit, you can shoot invaders to your home or business if they come in without permission. (Odd that we don't have a version of this for people who come into the NATION unwanted![;)])
The local law, however, has a "cowards" codicil: You can't shoot a burglar if it's running AWAY from you! While this DOES play toward the "guns as deterrent" concept, it also means that he who robs but runs away lives to rob another day...Largely negating the SPIRIT of the law!




kdsub -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 10:07:11 AM)

For some reason I cannot see the video…so I’m not exactly sure what is being said…but never stopped me before.[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m9.gif[/image]

I guess you think there should be no gun control then… is that right?…If so then I think I’ll buy an old tank they have guns on them do they not?…Or a machine gun of some type…hey there or a lot of RPG around nice to hit a few planes on takeoff.

Gun control… or weapon control is essential and does work…but can only be useful when other issues are addressed.

Now do I want it…NO…I like the smell of gunpowder….I want to see the look in the burglars eyes when he sees the 12 gauge pointed at his face.
Butch




farglebargle -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 11:17:18 AM)

Unrestricted Private Ownership of Firearms is part of my religion.

ANY Firearm. You got the coin to buy it, that's YOUR BUSINESS.

That's called "Freedom"




EPGAH -> RE: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime (11/2/2007 11:27:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Unrestricted Private Ownership of Firearms is part of my religion.
ANY Firearm.

I'm not so sure about ANY firearm, since that leads to situations like last week's shootout, a policeman dying because he has a Beretta up against some interchangeable gang-member with an assault-rifle. Don't get me wrong, a Beretta is shiny, professional-looking, and doubtless effective GIVEN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES!...But ultimately useless against an enemy with a full-automatic AND a larger clip to boot!
That said, I've always wondered why police don't USE the arsenals they confiscate? Surely there's enough guns&ammo there to go around!




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