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Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 3:00:06 PM   
IsabelleTS


Posts: 6
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Recently I've been speaking with a young submissive girl.   Shes refreshingly open, and honest,  but is incredibly naive in many areas.  Through our conversations- in which she spells better than most people- she did admit that she was 'slow'.    Normally, like many here, I seek out intelligent subbies.  But this girl is different, despite having limited knowledge of most of the lifestyle, she's willing to admit when she doesnt know something- and asks for clarification without any shame.  

Her willingness(without hint of desperation) to learn and serve came as a refreshing change compared to most I've spoken with online.   I've never dealt with someone that was almost literally a clean slate, without drama or lies.   It seems to be an opportunity for both of us, a loyal and eager subbie for me,  and she gains a mentor & guide to help her understand and  learn things she may not be able to otherwise.

I can see the potential in her,  but I can also realize that their will be unique challenges.   Does anyone have any experience, or advice on a relationship like this?
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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 3:43:47 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings isabelle,

i think there is some wisdom in knowing when we have to give ourselves the space to not play the know it all, essentially. in her case, she has a clean slate, but even for the rest of us, i think we do ourselves a favor when we can allow ourselves to take things slowly and approach a topic with the mind of completely learning something from it and let go of our attachment to showing off what we are already so sure that we know. that is when we really learn. my chronic pain issues, among other things, sometimes cause memory and cognition problems for me and learning to slow down and listen and give myself that space to look at something from an almost childlike, open perspective rather than always asserting my knowledge does allow me to grow in different ways.

i don't have a lot of experience being in a relationship with someone who has that clean slate, but i just thought i'd post because what you said struck a chord and it made me think about how we would all benefit from approaching things in that way from time to time. :) i wish you the best.

respectfully,
annabelle.


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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 3:47:36 PM   
LadySeraphina


Posts: 931
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Calgary, Canada
Status: offline 		In order to play with her, you will have to have a full understanding of her issues. She may be easily frustrated when she cannot accomplish something as quickly as someone else, she may have to battle self-worth issues (despite knowing she can't help it, sometimes it is tempting to feel 'stupid' or not as good as the next person), and I've also seen people with developmental challenges who are easily swayed. There is much more, but none of it -including the information above - is relevant until you know what her issues are, and what her recommended coping mechanisms are.

Lady Seraphina

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 3:57:01 PM   
LadyLynx


Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		she sounds alot like me! alittle about myself: I was diagnosed as being borderline retarded. (My score was about a 77 or 78.) despite that, I read at a college level, and on a regular basis drive to various cities without much mishap. (with exeption of a slight tendency to get lost. **grins**) so keep in mind that 'slow' doesn't necesarily mean low intelligence. to me it means exactly that. s-l-o-w.  sometimes takes a while to digest things,  things that may seem simple to you maybe complicated to her. 

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 4:02:50 PM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		sounds like me. When u travel (some of us are directionally challenged, lol), buy one of those Garmin things. I have used somebody's and it was great! Got me right to where i was going to.

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 6:19:00 PM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		Isabelle,
 
As a mother of a developmentally disabled UM I have made it my duty to educate myself on what her rights are, not only to protect her but those that get involved in a relationship with her as she becomes an adult as well as myself.You should keep in mind that the law generally assumes that a personal with  extreme developmental disabilities can not give consent to sexual conduct.
 
Blessed be,
Nika

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 7:13:55 PM   
TakenPet


Posts: 147
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline 		It is true that the law likely sees her as not being able to give consent, however it depends on the state/province and federal law, you will have to see how she is classified in their eyes.  I work with kids who are developmentally delayed and they are often quite deceptively smart, and have learned to milk the system for what its worth.  However, you will have to familiar with her specific disability and know it inside and out to be able to work with her approrpriately.  She may have limits that involve certain kinds of physical activity or something like that.  You may just have to give her more time to complete tasks and be more direct as opposed to subtle with your instructions, you may have to watch your tone of voice.  You will also have to ask her what she knows and what she is willing to learn.  You seem like an educated person, so use what you know.  Apply the same start up here that you would in any relationship, gather all the information you need to make sure that both of your needs are met safely and effectively. 

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/29/2007 10:11:17 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		i've a cousin who is developmentally delayed...as an adult she functions at about a 7th grade level.  my aunt was in a car accident while she was pregnant, there are no genetic issues.

E graduated high school with a completion certificate (she couldnt pass the exit exams) and went to a secondary teaching school.  she drives,  holds a job,  and has gotten married to a young man she met there (also a car accident victim, when he was young) and they have a perfectly normal child together.  E takes longer to do things, and learn things.  she also gets frustrated a bit easier.  

i see no reason your young lady couldnt be a suitable submissive as long as she's functioning at a high enough level to have the law see her as self-sufficient.  to my mind, that's one of the major hurdles you would have, that and well meaning relatives who might wish to keep her dependant on others to make her decisions for her.

kitten

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 12:09:48 AM   
IsabelleTS


Posts: 6
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for the replies so far.

First let me clarify  that she is 'slow' as I mentioned in my origianl post.  Shes literate,  more so than many of the ' u r hawt'  idiots that plague the internet, and is completing high school so she has a diploma.   She is of legal age as well,  so this isn't a matter of legal definition of consent.

My primary goal is to help her understand BDSM in a fulfilling way,  the thought of an exploitave dominant getting ahold of her makes my skin crawl.  

As for communication, there has already been some issues of frustration.  Mostly as I'm completley unused to dealing with somone that has almost no knowledge of BDSM ideology & common terms.  So its likely been as much of a learning process for me  as for her.    Which has been refreshing,  casting a new light on things from a perspective I havent had for a long time now.

I think overall, if things get to the point of her seeking training with me,  she may actually be easier to train in some ways as there won't be the process of cutting through fantasy and/or the dreaded 'Well my old Dom/me  would always....'.     So the lack of preconceptions may outwiegh the other issues in the long run.

Things are still in the conversation stages with her, but I do appreciate the view points and different perspectives.

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 5:33:57 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		What are you really talking about here?  Is she "slow" by her own definition, or has she been diagnosed with a developmental disorder or learning disability?  If it's the former, that may simply be her subjective impression which you may or may not agree with.  If it's the latter, you might find it helpful to have the actual diagnosis and do a bit of research for yourself as to how that may impact your relationship and its dynamics.
 
John

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 5:40:33 AM   
wintersbreath


Posts: 23
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

What are you really talking about here?  Is she "slow" by her own definition, or has she been diagnosed with a developmental disorder or learning disability?  If it's the former, that may simply be her subjective impression which you may or may not agree with.  If it's the latter, you might find it helpful to have the actual diagnosis and do a bit of research for yourself as to how that may impact your relationship and its dynamics.
 
John

I would have to agree with what was said here.

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 5:41:06 AM   
TwoSeekOne


Posts: 24
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IsabelleTS

Recently I've been speaking with a young submissive girl.   Shes refreshingly open, and honest,  but is incredibly naive in many areas.  Through our conversations- in which she spells better than most people- she did admit that she was 'slow'.    Normally, like many here, I seek out intelligent subbies.  But this girl is different, despite having limited knowledge of most of the lifestyle, she's willing to admit when she doesnt know something- and asks for clarification without any shame.  



I don't think I would consider her 'knowledge' levels as an indication of her intelligence. Her declaration of being slow sounds more like a reflection on her self-negative imagine than her actual intelligence or capability for reasoning. If anything, the fact that she is so patient about learning and willing to ask and thinking about the issues deeply indicates a higher level of intelligence than the typical "oh my god, tell me how you'd beat me" low-intelligence variety you run into so often.

Rick

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 6:14:44 AM   
Driver1961


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		He dips His lid:

I'm with Rover, and TwoseeksOne.   Slowly slowly, with eyes open -which you appear to be doing posting here. A shoulder to lean on is one thing but to look to you for their life may be very damaging for one or both of you. 

I'd set clear parameters on 'Your responsibilities' and make clear they understand this and reinforce this- have them sign a contract/understanding of this. Give her essay instructions etc for learning. 

It is heartening that you are approaching this not solely from a selfish exploitative perspective (like many would as we know)  but looking at the shared benefits for both with a possible long term outcome.

Warm regards Driver. 

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 6:31:07 AM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Interesting topic. I work with developmentally diabled adults and understand that their sexuality is often not addressed nor encouraged to be explored in a positive manner, which often leads to learning inappropriate socialization from tv, music videos, etc... In the lifestyle, I have met several people with Asperger's syndrome who can't function well in a "normal" relationship, but thrive in a d/s one where the rules are definable and more consistent. Having specific expectations and someone who understands your limitations is a true gift to anyone who discovers that type of relationship. Take the time to thoroughly explain what you want/need from her and work to help her express her needs as well, and this will likely be a very satisfying relationship for both of you.

As far as the legality goes. IQ under 70 tends to be a defining criteria within the law in Maryland and Delaware, but even then there would be no problem unless there is physical abuse, or behavior that mimics that. Best of luck to you both and i look forward to hearing how it all turns out.

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 6:57:06 AM   
Phoenix2raven


Posts: 347
Joined: 10/14/2006
Status: offline 		Couple of questions if I may? It would be very helpful if you could elaborate on what her DD is. If its just a low IQ or if its ashburgers, downs etc. makes a huge difference in how I would respond to your question. You may email me for privacy sake if you want. 
~Phoenix~


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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 7:15:33 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IsabelleTS

She is of legal age as well,  so this isn't a matter of legal definition of consent.



Age is not the only requirement for being capable of giving informed consent. I don't know where you are, but I know that my state has different laws than other states. In NY you have to petition the court to have an adult classified as incapable of giving consent, which most parents of developmentally delayed do to protect them.

I think in Minnesota it's the opposite, such people are considered incapable of giving consent unless the court specifically rules otherwise.

You may wish to research this to be sure you aren't opening a box of worms.

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 10/30/2007 7:19:27 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika

Isabelle,
 
As a mother of a developmentally disabled UM I have made it my duty to educate myself on what her rights are, not only to protect her but those that get involved in a relationship with her as she becomes an adult as well as myself.You should keep in mind that the law generally assumes that a personal with  extreme developmental disabilities can not give consent to sexual conduct.
 
Blessed be,
Nika


This would be my first concern...how "slow" is she?  There are plenty of people that are considered "lower level functioning" that do not qualify as being developmentally disabled and are able to make competent decisions for themselves.
If in fact she is retarded or severely developmentally disabled, she cannot give legal consent.  Her age has nothing to do with this.  Incapacitated or vulnerable adults cannot give legal consent.

Assuming she is competent, I think you have to do some serious research to understand that her thought processes and ability to learn may be much different than what you are used to.

good luck to you,
l

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 11/3/2007 6:23:19 PM   
shootingstar67


Posts: 195
Joined: 10/29/2007
Status: offline 		I am so learning disabled that I am on SSI. I have to go though the awkwardness of explaining this to people. I appear more intelligent in person then online. My IQ is actually normal, I test at 99 but the psychologist said my IQ is probably closer to 115.  However I function at the level of being retarded in alot of things. I have various social problems. One is I do attract men who are attracted to stupid women and I find I am often grossly underestimated.  On the other side of the scale I have friends of very high education and intelligence who gets pissed at me because they grossly overestimate and expect me to respond on their level.

It is really hard to say. Not everyone makes a good tutor.  Not everyone has the patience. I'd like my dom to be smarter then me. I know that

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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 11/3/2007 6:30:56 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I won't post on this topic publicly but would be willing to email you.
I don't want to be acused here for blurring my personal opinion with professional asvice.


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RE: Subs with developmental disabilities-any advice? - 11/3/2007 8:01:11 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Her being 18 or above won't  save you if by law technically she's considered legally incompitent. If her disability, rules her out of being able to give legal consent basically. Make sure first that she's veiwed as mentally compitent by the laws of your state.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IsabelleTS

Thank you for the replies so far.

  She is of legal age as well,  so this isn't a matter of legal definition of consent.


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