Feminists have more fun?

Feminists have more fun? (Full Version)

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Level -> Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 5:02:58 AM)
Feminism boosts sexual satisfaction for both men and women, a new study suggests. Busting stereotypes that peg feminists as man-haters, a new study shows that having a feminist partner is linked with healthier, more romantic heterosexual relationships. The study, published online this week in the journal Sex Roles, relied on surveys of both college students and older adults, finding that women with egalitarian attitudes do find mates and men do find them attractive. In fact, results reveal they are having a good time, maybe a better time than the non-feminists. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21364055

Lashra -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 12:27:11 PM)
I am a feminist and I've never had a problem getting date. I find that the men I have dated have respected me for being a feminist and standing up for what I believe in. The ones who were kinky and knew that I was a Domme definitely appreciated the fact that I am a feminist. I have never hated men nor supported the supremacy of either gender. I think an egalitarian society does function much better than one who forces women and men into rigid gender roles. I also know that not everyone appreciates feminists, some even hate us. But humans being as they are, someone will always be against you and your beliefs/views no matter what they may be. Therefore I do not let the views of others interfere with my own. I am happy and hope to stay that way. ~Lashra

CuriousLord -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 12:48:19 PM)
This survey seems to be playing on words. "Feminist" is typically referring to man-haters and female supremacists. It's also commonly used as someone who cares for equal rights; so, it's starts out by shocking the reading that feminists are a good thing, then it uses a survey showing equal-rights relationships to support it. Not that it's ultimately blantantly dishonest, it's just a good bit of a bait-and-switch article. Personally, I have a strong antipathy for anyone who claims to be a "feminist"- for me, "feminist" means "female supremacist". A lot of people claim to be a "feminist", but say they just support equal rights.. which always seems like a weird thing to say to me. I get it's the historical use for that word.. but time change, you know? Now all the "feminists" I've seen in debates are arguing that men should be subserviant. And, it drives me nuts. It's like "White power!" versus "Black power!". The first is a racist threat; white people can't have pride in their race, or it's just racist. But black people should have pride in their race.. it's a good thing! Ah well. For me.. Chauvinist: Male supremacist Feminist: Female supremacist [Neither]: Equality

philosophy -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 4:34:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord This survey seems to be playing on words. "Feminist" is typically referring to man-haters and female supremacists. ...and you a scientist. Define your terms before using them...in this case.... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminist "fem·i·nism [image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif[/image] [image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image][image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif[/image] /ˈfɛm[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]əˌnɪz[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]əm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fem-uh-niz-uh[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]m] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. 2. (sometimes initial capital letter[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women." ......you'll notice that, at no point does the actual definition use the words 'man hater' or 'female supremacist'. Those definitions are entirely your bias and say a lot more about you than anything else.....

CuriousLord -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 5:15:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy Those definitions are entirely your bias and say a lot more about you than anything else..... Yes, I can see how assuming that a normal person believes in equality might say something about me. Perhaps the most telling bit is how I regard sexists in either direction so harshly? In any case, I'd fault the definitions you provided as colloquial. Case in point.. quote: ORIGINAL: "Contemporary Feminism", Feminism, Wikipedia. Contemporary feminism is made up of a number of different philosophical strands. These movements sometimes disagree about current issues and how to confront them. One side of the spectrum includes a number of radical feminists, such as Mary Daly, who argue that society would benefit if there were dramatically fewer men.[32] On the other hand, figures such as Christina Hoff Sommers and Camille Paglia identify themselves as feminist but accuse the movement of anti-male prejudice. [33] [34] Some feminists, like Katha Pollitt (see her book Reasonable Creatures) or Nadine Strossen, consider feminism to hold simply that "women are people." Views that separate the sexes rather than unite them are considered by these writers to be sexist rather than feminist.[35][36] You see, "feminism", as it looks like, is a belief in females; more specifically, looking for women's rights. This phrase may be appropriate in which women lack rights as increasing them would be in line with equality. However, in a society of approximate equality, increasing a gender's rights is to be a supremacist for that gender; in feminism's case, female supremacy. I see feminism and chauvinism as two forms of sexism, as the cited article supports. As I mentioned in the previous post, "get it's the historical use for that word.. but time change, you know?" Telling, right? PS- I spent most of the post criticizing your view that my view is biased. I never did sum up my view in a few words, did I? As Nadine Strossen said, "Women are people." For me, equal rights is humanism, not feminism.

cyberdude611 -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 5:22:53 PM)
quote: stereotypes that peg feminists as man-haters, a new study shows that having a feminist partner is linked with healthier, more romantic heterosexual relationships. The study, published online this week in the journal Sex Roles, relied on surveys of both college students and older adults, finding that women with egalitarian attitudes do find mates and men do find them attractive. In fact, results reveal they are having a good quote: ORIGINAL: Level Feminism boosts sexual satisfaction for both men and women, a new study suggests. Busting stereotypes that peg feminists as man-haters, a new study shows that having a feminist partner is linked with healthier, more romantic heterosexual relationships. The study, published online this week in the journal Sex Roles, relied on surveys of both college students and older adults, finding that women with egalitarian attitudes do find mates and men do find them attractive. In fact, results reveal they are having a good time, maybe a better time than the non-feminists. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21364055 There was an interesting study that I remember reading awhile back where a very low minority of single college women call themselves a "feminist." However a vast majority favor "women's rights" or even more said they favor "gender equality." For some reason with the youth, the word "feminism" has a negative conotation attached to it. And I think it is more of a stereotype. People think feminists are activists, radicals, and man-hating bra burners. "Feminist" is also a very broad word. How do you define it? For example...must a feminist believe in abortion? I think you need to be careful how you label it. Because not all feminists are the same. There are in fact feminists out there who are pro-life believe it or not. And that may be one reason why many young women today who would rather call themselves a supporter of "gender equality" than call themselves a "feminist." Feminism has picked up too many stereotypes. Now does this have much to do with dating? Not really. And I doubt it ever did. Sure some of the radicals that believe marriage is "legalized rape" may have a problem finding a date... but the mainstream women wont have much of an issue at all.

thornhappy -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 5:26:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord You see, "feminism", as it looks like, is a belief in females; more specifically, looking for women's rights. This phrase may be appropriate in which women lack rights as increasing them would be in line with equality. However, in a society of approximate equality, increasing a gender's rights is to be a supremacist for that gender; in feminism's case, female supremacy. I see feminism and chauvinism as two forms of sexism, as the cited article supports. As I mentioned in the previous post, "get it's the historical use for that word.. but time change, you know?" Telling, right? In my lifetime, a wife couldn't have her own credit history. It was linked to her husband's. They couldn't get birth control without the husband's approval. They could be told that "oh, the man needed the job because he's married and you would just be providing a second income" (happened to my mom). I've personally had to work with guys who didn't "believe in" women engineers. A prof stood over a woman taking an engineering exam and said "Why aren't you at home taking care of your husband?" (happened at my alma mater, I heard it from a guy who was in the class.) So, is it feminism to want an independent credit history? To want a fair chance on the job? To not take shit from a professor? Or is that female supremacy? Oops, now I'm sounding like an angry feminist. It could be that you hold a definition of feminism that is different from the accepted, common definition. thornhappy

CuriousLord -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 5:33:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord You see, "feminism", as it looks like, is a belief in females; more specifically, looking for women's rights. This phrase may be appropriate in which women lack rights as increasing them would be in line with equality. However, in a society of approximate equality, increasing a gender's rights is to be a supremacist for that gender; in feminism's case, female supremacy. I see feminism and chauvinism as two forms of sexism, as the cited article supports. As I mentioned in the previous post, "get it's the historical use for that word.. but time change, you know?" Telling, right? In my lifetime, a wife couldn't have her own credit history. It was linked to her husband's. They couldn't get birth control without the husband's approval. They could be told that "oh, the man needed the job because he's married and you would just be providing a second income" (happened to my mom). I've personally had to work with guys who didn't "believe in" women engineers. A prof stood over a woman taking an engineering exam and said "Why aren't you at home taking care of your husband?" (happened at my alma mater, I heard it from a guy who was in the class.) So, is it feminism to want an independent credit history? To want a fair chance on the job? To not take shit from a professor? Or is that female supremacy? Oops, now I'm sounding like an angry feminist. It could be that you hold a definition of feminism that is different from the accepted, common definition. My friend, I do not mean to be rude, but.. you're old, at least, compared to me. You grew up in a different world. That's how it was when you were growing up.. that's not the truth anymore. My definition isn't odd. At least, not in my age group. It's just the newer one that's more practical today, since, well, women not being able to vote or having their own credit history are things we only read about in History class. Times have changed, thornhappy.

dcnovice -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 9:37:39 PM)
OED definition of feminism: 1. The qualities of females. 2. [After F. féminisme.] Advocacy of the rights of women (based on the theory of equality of the sexes). (Cf. WOMANISM.) 3. Path. The development of female secondary sexual characteristics in a male.

Vendaval -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/21/2007 10:24:55 PM)
Hello Level, IME, social rules have changed quite a bit since the dark ages (post WW2) and egalitarian relationships are both appreciated and encouraged. [;)] YMMV, Vendaval

philosophy -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/22/2007 8:20:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord My friend, I do not mean to be rude, but.. you're old, at least, compared to me. You grew up in a different world. That's how it was when you were growing up.. that's not the truth anymore. My definition isn't odd. At least, not in my age group. It's just the newer one that's more practical today, since, well, women not being able to vote or having their own credit history are things we only read about in History class. Times have changed, thornhappy. ......and do women have equal access to all things in Western society? Do glass ceilings at work still exist? What about women in other countries...do they need advocates for their rights? What percentage of politicians are female? What percentage of CEO's? Is the average wage of women still lower than that of men? You seem to think that sexism is dead. It is not, although it has taken a few body blows in recent years. What i objected to was the first line of your original post........the line that defined feminism for you as 'man haters'. It was a cheap shot, designed to close down discussion not to open it. You seem to think that centuries of sexist attitudes towards women can be negated by a few acts of legislation over a couple of generations. i doubt it, although i'd be interested in a cogent argument that suggests otherwise. However, experience and history teaches us otherwise. Whenever an oppressed group gets some rights back, it is many years before the possibility of those rights being eroded disappears. Racism is a good example.

AquaticSub -> RE: Feminists have more fun? (10/22/2007 8:26:00 AM)
~Fast Reply~ Feminist submissive here. Never had problems with dates or finding partners so I guess I'm doing something right! [:)]

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