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Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 4:57:10 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		BEIJING - China's Communist Party closes a five-yearly Congress on Sunday that will acclaim President Hu Jintao's policies and start to install a new leadership crucial to shaping his legacy.

After a week of rhetorical displays of unity around Hu, the Congress seems sure to approve his "state of the nation" work report and write his slogan of a "scientific outlook on development" into the Party charter.

But while the 2,213 carefully vetted delegates have applauded Hu's vows to weave economic growth with environmental and welfare improvement in his next and probably last five years in office, silence has surrounded appointments to the inner sanctum where real power lies.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21397468

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 7:55:03 AM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Every so often I ask myself if it would matter if a bunch of unelected people made decisions about my life instead of a bunch of elected ones. That’s face it we are never happy with what they decide for us a lot of the time.

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 9:42:05 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Every so often I ask myself if it would matter if a bunch of unelected people made decisions about my life instead of a bunch of elected ones. That’s face it we are never happy with what they decide for us a lot of the time.


No, over there everyone is appointed, even on the local level. You would learn to fear the dog catcher, because you'd know that he has connections. Everyone in power is connected to everyone else. The term "you can't fight city hall" would have a whole new meaning, wouldn't it.

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 11:26:33 AM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Fair enough but even in the west corruption exists and you’ll get people riding rough shot over others due to them knowing someone in power. There is always a social elite and some just play the game of democracy. For example take George Bush he was always going to follow in his father’s footsteps no matter what his abilities were to do the job. Hillary Clinton is she really anything other than the wife of an ex president so what makes her fit to be a president? It seems to be that certain echelons of society go through the motions of democracy and we all get limited choices of who we want anyway i.e. there are only so many names on the ballot paper after all.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 10/21/2007 11:27:16 AM >

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 11:45:56 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Fair enough but even in the west corruption exists and you’ll get people riding rough shot over others due to them knowing someone in power. There is always a social elite and some just play the game of democracy. For example take George Bush he was always going to follow in his father’s footsteps no matter what his abilities were to do the job. Hillary Clinton is she really anything other than the wife of an ex president so what makes her fit to be a president? It seems to be that certain echelons of society go through the motions of democracy and we all get limited choices of who we want anyway i.e. there are only so many names on the ballot paper after all.


So true, look at the nepotism and social connections of all the Presidents, they are royalty without a crown and with far far more power than your average constitutional ,monarch. I have to laugh when Americans criticize royalty, I think there is another that has swallowed all the propaganda, hook, line and sinker.

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 11:51:34 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Fair enough but even in the west corruption exists and you’ll get people riding rough shot over others due to them knowing someone in power. There is always a social elite and some just play the game of democracy. For example take George Bush he was always going to follow in his father’s footsteps no matter what his abilities were to do the job. Hillary Clinton is she really anything other than the wife of an ex president so what makes her fit to be a president? It seems to be that certain echelons of society go through the motions of democracy and we all get limited choices of who we want anyway i.e. there are only so many names on the ballot paper after all.


Yes, there is always corruption, that's human nature. The desire, the quest for power is the whole reason this very board exists. It's not evil in and of itself, it's needed in order to make things tick - what can I do today, what can I get away with. The lowest creatures to the highest ask themselves that question every day, and they always reach for more, the successful ones. But so far as the WEest being like China, no. You're dead wrong there. Jimmy Carter turned out to be a total moron, and so we threw him out on his peanut farmin' preacher ass. The Chinese could never have done that.

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 12:03:41 PM   
Raechard


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Status: offline 		They seem to get rid of people in other ways there. I wouldn’t want to be a tyrant because there is always someone looking to plan an accident for you. Also there are always people waiting to step into your seat of power no matter what the system or how they go about it. They will use the methods within their system what we call elections some call other things.

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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 12:14:55 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
So true, look at the nepotism and social connections of all the Presidents, they are royalty without a crown and with far far more power than your average constitutional ,monarch. I have to laugh when Americans criticize royalty, I think there is another that has swallowed all the propaganda, hook, line and sinker.


You hear Americans criticizing royalty all the time, do you?

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 12:32:59 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

They seem to get rid of people in other ways there. I wouldn’t want to be a tyrant because there is always someone looking to plan an accident for you. Also there are always people waiting to step into your seat of power no matter what the system or how they go about it. They will use the methods within their system what we call elections some call other things.


\You can't even criticize the leaders over there. Try protesting in Tiannaman Square, or placing a full page ad in the leading Chinese newspaper denouncing one of the leaderships' top generals as "General Betray-Us"

Try that, then get back with me on how it went

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 12:56:05 PM   
Raechard


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Try criticising anyone in your government and see what effect that has; I’m guessing none. I know people can’t protest there I am not simple in the head. You have so many TV talk shows, radio call in shows etc. all these voices of dissent to what avail? The only voices of dissent with any power are the ones working for big corporations. So many lobbyists; people to tell your government smoking shouldn’t be outlawed because it kills no one, people to tell your government finding alternative sources of energy are pointless. All kinds of people but who speaks for the individual these days?

At least those students in China died fighting the system they knew was wrong, we just don’t seem to see what is wrong with our system.



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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 1:19:16 PM   
batshalom


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Status: offline 		Darn. I thought this was going to involve a stoplight and a carload of switches.

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 1:21:41 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Nope, this involves sticking your forefingers into a woven tube.

MrMonkeyGrip


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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 1:37:52 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard


Try criticising anyone in your government and see what effect that has; I’m guessing none. I know people can’t protest there I am not simple in the head. You have so many TV talk shows, radio call in shows etc. all these voices of dissent to what avail? The only voices of dissent with any power are the ones working for big corporations. So many lobbyists; people to tell your government smoking shouldn’t be outlawed because it kills no one, people to tell your government finding alternative sources of energy are pointless. All kinds of people but who speaks for the individual these days?

At least those students in China died fighting the system they knew was wrong, we just don’t seem to see what is wrong with our system.



One man, one gun, one vote.

THAT'S who's speaking for the individual here. And it seems that you've gone now from complaining about the "similarities" that don't exist to complaining about the main difference, that does.



< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/21/2007 1:43:31 PM >

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 1:53:32 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		One man, one gun, one vote is a nice cliché but what does that mean in reality?

Could you also rephrase your last post please because I’m failing to understand the meaning of it entirely?


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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 2:12:20 PM   
batshalom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, this involves sticking your forefingers into a woven tube.



Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Ok ... but it sure is going to make playing checkers more difficult.

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 2:15:40 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Ok to clarify: my standpoint is that we get limited choice as to who runs things and usually they decide things we don’t like: how is this dissimilar to the situation in china. I also said that obviously protest isn’t allowed there but I pointed out to you it was also ineffectual here. You go back to the one person one vote mantra which I’ve already stated is a limited choice you get on the ballot paper.

By mentioning the atrocity in china you asked for my opinion of it which I gave and as far as I can see was unrelated to anything else being said. I said people could see the system in China was wrong but I have never stated the system in China is right, have I? I’ve said ours is just as bad in some respects.

That is my viewpoint where am I misunderstanding yours?

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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

(in reply to Raechard)
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RE: Chinese politics - 10/21/2007 2:17:39 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, this involves sticking your forefingers into a woven tube.



Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Ok ... but it sure is going to make playing checkers more difficult.


A twue submissive would then employ her nose to move the pieces.......

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to batshalom)
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RE: Chinese politics - 10/22/2007 5:54:24 AM   
batshalom


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Status: offline 		Well, Level, I was actually considering using my lips, teeth, and tongue. A twuely better submissive always keeps in mind her audience, eh?

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RE: Chinese politics - 10/22/2007 6:00:34 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
So true, look at the nepotism and social connections of all the Presidents, they are royalty without a crown and with far far more power than your average constitutional ,monarch. I have to laugh when Americans criticize royalty, I think there is another that has swallowed all the propaganda, hook, line and sinker.


You hear Americans criticizing royalty all the time, do you?


Yep. You see it quite a lot on CM. Not that it bothers me, I'm pretty neutral on a constitutional monarchy and a republic, both have their own royalty, crowned or otherwise.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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