General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing.

General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

Owner59 -> General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/19/2007 8:55:18 PM)
Abizaid: "Of course it's about oil, we can't really deny that," Abizaid said of the Iraq campaign early on in the talk. "We've treated the Arab world as a collection of big gas stations," the retired general said. "Our message to them is: Guys, keep your pumps open, prices low, be nice to the Israelis and you can do whatever you want out back. Osama and 9/11 is the distilled essence that represents everything going on out back." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/abizaid-iraq

SimplyMichael -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/19/2007 10:07:33 PM)
Yep. That is why it stuns me that people act as if 9/11 happened out of the blue or in some sort of vacuum.

trappedinamuseum -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/19/2007 10:11:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Yep. That is why it stuns me that people act as if 9/11 happened out of the blue or in some sort of vacuum. People believe what they want to believe....like the Holocaust deniers.

Owner59 -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/19/2007 10:16:54 PM)
Nice new profile pic.,Michael

EPGAH -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/19/2007 10:25:26 PM)
If it's about oil, why hasn't America--using this war as "cover"--grabbed any oil-rich land, put an impenetrable border around it...This one they might actually enforce, given that it's about money--I mean oil--rather than the abstract concepts of national sovereignty or whatever...![;)] Then, of course, we could tell the Arab countries to fuck off, since they'd lost their economic/political leverage...and watch as they continued fighting each other WITHOUT the unlimited supply of petro-dollars? Wouldn't that be the best way to ensure "America's interests", "National Security", or whatever the new term is?

Owner59 -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/19/2007 10:37:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH If it's about oil, why hasn't America--using this war as "cover"--grabbed any oil-rich land, put an impenetrable border around it...This one they might actually enforce, given that it's about money--I mean oil--rather than the abstract concepts of national sovereignty or whatever...![;)] Then, of course, we could tell the Arab countries to fuck off, since they'd lost their economic/political leverage...and watch as they continued fighting each other WITHOUT the unlimited supply of petro-dollars? Wouldn't that be the best way to ensure "America's interests", "National Security", or whatever the new term is? Energy independence and a focus on home, could be the best fuck you we could give the Saudis. How about an " Mission Apollo" type approach,to energy independence?Like it really mattered.As well as cleaner coal and bio-fuel,including ethanol. Just think about it.The nation benefits,we spend less on energy,put less pollution in the air,a slow down green-house gases,and no need to kill our GI`s trying to hold oil fields in foreign lands.

TheHeretic -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 12:00:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 "Of course it's about oil, we can't really deny that," Well, this is a shocking development. Ready for another stunner? There is no Easter Bunny. I'd find this bullshit a bit more tolerable if it wasn't coming from the same shrieking nincompoops who insist we can't drill our own oil because it might spoil the view for surfers, or cause the caribou a bad day.

meatcleaver -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 2:55:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 How about an " Mission Apollo" type approach,to energy independence?Like it really mattered.As well as cleaner coal and bio-fuel,including ethanol. Just think about it.The nation benefits,we spend less on energy,put less pollution in the air,a slow down green-house gases,and no need to kill our GI`s trying to hold oil fields in foreign lands. This is what the Chineese are planning for. While it buys uip oil in the short term its long term plans are to be energy independent. This of course just doesn't mean researching technology to replace oil but a whole series of strategies and technologies to cut down sdependence. They have already planned to build a carbon neutral city that will generate its own energy. They are planning a network of Maglevs to make internal flights redundent. If just a fraction of what they plan comes to fruitition and proves successful they will launch themselves into the technological lead where other nations will be buying technology and know how from them. On the BBC, in an interview given by one of the leading architects on the carbon neutral city said, forget America, forget the west, there is no interest in tomorrow there, everyone with ideas and a vision is coming to China.

pahunkboy -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 4:03:37 AM)
no easter bunny? ^ ponders ^ no as in none, easter bunny??? ^shouts, no easter bunny ?

Termyn8or -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 5:00:15 AM)
Actually what seems to be little known is that Israel has plans to expand. I've seen a map of the planned "Greater Israel" and it is a very sweet deal. More ports, strategically advantageous and doable in the next decade or so. You see they do think ahead more than five minutes, unlike their bully, the US. But now the bully has had incentive. As soon as they got the oil pumping in Iraq they were making $70,000,000 a day. Billions got siphoned off into slush funds, while they refused to repair the hospitals they bombed. What's more, the exact amount of oil stolen from Iraq is unknown because for a number of months, at $70m per day, there were no meters on those "big gas pumps". Somebody forgot to install them. The war was going to start no matter what, the people who really started it think of the future. Our "leaders" are just puppets. Paid puppets actually, with crude at almost $90 a barrel they would laugh at $70m per day about now. So the bully is well paid. But they are addicted to a dollar that ain't worth a dime. In the end they will get what's coming to them I think, but it will be too late. I mean I do OK, but I spend all my money. I am used to not having a slush fund. Now let's say you have a million dollars in the bank. You wake up one day and it is only worth half as much. The more money you have the worse it hits you. And ironically they sell out the US economy every chance they get. They are cutting their own throats. So, yes, oil is part of the picture here, but it isn't the whole picture. Oh, and someone mention holocaust deniers ? Mmmmhmmmm, 4.1 million minus 2 million, minus another million or so adds up to six million. Well that's how they do the bookkeeping in Iraq as well. In fact there is alot of "creative mathematics" in the world. Done a bit of it myself in the past. So did Pappy, the family business, of course there are two sets of books, but years later I discovered that there were three sets of books. Go figure. OK I do not deny the holocaust, but the numbers just do not add up. In a court of law if you are caught in one lie you are not trusted to tell the truth in other matters. This reasoning is apparently wrong. And if my math is too radical for you, I'll give you Dad's. He says that the Nazis may well have killed six million, but they were not all Jews. In other words, they might have found six million bodies, but they didn't find six million yarmokas. Among those bodies were alot of Polacks for one, as some of them would not accept Nazism. There were others as well, but where is my money ? I'm sure my Greatgrandfather lost something before leaving the old country, I want reparations ! Enough on that. Natural resources are the reason for many many wars throughout history. Sometimes it was simply territory. Arable land on which to farm and feed the people. No wonder they supported it. And at $90 a barrel for light fine crude, no wonder alot of us don't now. What is the cost of getting rich ? The wants of a few outweigh the needs of the many. That is simply how the world works. I really am starting to think that I am alright and that the world is all wrong. How bout you ? T

NorthernGent -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 6:34:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH If it's about oil, why hasn't America--using this war as "cover"--grabbed any oil-rich land, put an impenetrable border around it...This one they might actually enforce, given that it's about money--I mean oil--rather than the abstract concepts of national sovereignty or whatever...![;)] Then, of course, we could tell the Arab countries to fuck off, since they'd lost their economic/political leverage...and watch as they continued fighting each other WITHOUT the unlimited supply of petro-dollars? Wouldn't that be the best way to ensure "America's interests", "National Security", or whatever the new term is? I doubt there is one sole reason for the invasion of Iraq; there will be competing interests among policy makers: 1) Resources 2) A value system. Some will place 1 above 2 and vice versa, although their connection is obvious. My understanding of US foreign policy starts around WW2, and, in my mind, it's obvious that the aim is to create open economic systems favourable to the US, which is pretty much what the English empire did for centuries: they didn't aim to conquer people, they aimed to make sure they traded with England first and foremost. If you look at India, the English controlled trade with around 70,000 soldiers and numerous civil servants: the logic behind Iraq is mirrored in English ventures into places like India, the difference being that they've bitten off more than they can chew in Iraq, as per the English in Afghanistan. When was a war not about resources or values? To answer the question in your first sentence, the US has no intentions of conquering anyone and constructing borders. That would be disastrous in this day and age because the US needs friends to maintain its power base and they would be completely isolated were they to follow such a path. Their aim is to make sure the US are the number one trade partner, and they'll put as many soldiers and civil servants in the place as it takes: the fewer the better I would imagine. The most successful empire in modern history, the English one, is a good place to start if you want to understand what the US is up to: the English didn't aim to conquer anyone, or get involved in wars (with the exception of when their interests were threatened), they simply aimed to create favourable trading conditions, and by and large just let the big European powers fight with each other.......the English would stoke the fire on occasion, too......sort of give them a helping hand to exhaust themselves while the English busied themselves obtaining the resources for economic growth. This must sound familiar. Edited to add: I would be utterly amazed if US foreign policy makers didn't have a well thought out strategy for at least the next 20 years. These people are playing for serious stakes, and they have the money to buy the brains to make it happen. Yeah, they'll piss a few people off by going into places like Iraq, but they know how far to push the public and what strings to pull to make sure there's no serious public unrest.

Termyn8or -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 6:37:52 AM)
Yes this war is about values, the values of the many dollars the politicians have. You see, Saddam was converting to Euros. The impact on the value of the dollar would not be pretty. T

Sanity -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 6:59:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Energy independence and a focus on home, could be the best fuck you we could give the Saudis. How about an " Mission Apollo" type approach,to energy independence?Like it really mattered.As well as cleaner coal and bio-fuel,including ethanol. Just think about it.The nation benefits,we spend less on energy,put less pollution in the air,a slow down green-house gases,and no need to kill our GI`s trying to hold oil fields in foreign lands. I've personally done fab work on a huge government-sponsored cleaner coal pilot project located in the middle of Wyoming, and besides that the govenment is notorious for spending boatloads and boatloads of cash developing practically any bridge to nowhere that any hair-brained "researcher" applies for grant money for. Mexicans have been rioting of late because ethanol production has been driving up their maize prices to the point that their tortillas are painfully pinching their pockets - so how much more food do you want to take from the poor tomorrow? Do a little research, read the news, you'll find out you're wrong.

Sanity -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 7:03:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Yes this war is about values, the values of the many dollars the politicians have. You see, Saddam was converting to Euros. The impact on the value of the dollar would not be pretty. T Except that the low dollar is helping the USA by keeping exports bustling while trimming imports, thus making the trade deficit come more in line with where it should be. China is keeping it's currency low too, on purpose. Any other conspiracy theories you want me to pop for you this morning?

Termyn8or -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 7:33:18 AM)
Tell me that China did not threaten to dump dollars if the yuan's value was unlocked. T

Sanity -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 8:10:27 AM)
That's not a conspiracy, it's a threat. But the funny thing about the old "Saddam was about to change over to Euros" conspiracy theory is how everyone was on board with Bush at the beginning of the Liberation effort. Well, everyone who wasn't trading Iraqi oil for French weapons, or German bunkers at least. Prior to W even Clinton had to keep bombing Saddam every so often, to try to keep that kindly old harmless grandfather to millions in check. Except, while his "grandchildren" starved or otherwise died of easily curable diseases, Saddam was plating the bathroom fixtures in all of his palaces in pure gold. Before Clinton, there was the small matter of Kuwait - insignificant, I know. Before that, we were happy that Saddam volunteered to stop Iran's Ayatollah from forcefully reuniting the entire Muslim world in order to begin the final great Jihad And even though final great jihads are no fun, I'm sure you'll insist that Ronald Reagan was eviiiiiiiiil for using Saddam Hussein to stop it before it could really get started Won't you

farglebargle -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 8:36:13 AM)
How do you "Forcefully Reunite" the Shia/Sunni split???

MzMia -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 8:57:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle How do you "Forcefully Reunite" the Shia/Sunni split??? How can you forcefully reunite anyone to do anything? They have to want to resolve their differences. It makes more sense to me, to just divide the damn country in half.

Owner59 -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 9:06:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Energy independence and a focus on home, could be the best fuck you we could give the Saudis. How about an " Mission Apollo" type approach,to energy independence?Like it really mattered.As well as cleaner coal and bio-fuel,including ethanol. Just think about it.The nation benefits,we spend less on energy,put less pollution in the air,a slow down green-house gases,and no need to kill our GI`s trying to hold oil fields in foreign lands. I've personally done fab work on a huge government-sponsored cleaner coal pilot project located in the middle of Wyoming, and besides that the govenment is notorious for spending boatloads and boatloads of cash developing practically any bridge to nowhere that any hair-brained "researcher" applies for grant money for. Mexicans have been rioting of late because ethanol production has been driving up their maize prices to the point that their tortillas are painfully pinching their pockets - so how much more food do you want to take from the poor tomorrow? Do a little research, read the news, you'll find out you're wrong. Nope,we turn millions of pounds of surplus corn and feed corn into "corn syrup" every year,because we can`t get rid of it fast enough. Just say what you said, to a group of Iowa farmers,then run as fast as you can out of the room,before you git hit w/ garbage. Brazil is energy independent,and started on the course of energy independence years ago,under the guidance of José Goldemberg With real leadership,we could do what Brazil is doing. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/19/AR2006081900842.html To not do these things and to not start towards energy independence,is saying you support blood for oil(our son`s and daughter`s blood).You`ll be saying that you`re ok with the status quo. Now that we`re being a little honest here,let`s also add the cost of the Iraq war,in lives lost and in money, to the cost of a gallon of gas. Because there most certainly is a direct connection,and relationship. That would make the real cost of gas say,double,triple what it is now?And what price does one put on the life of a GI. How many soldiers are going to die(per year),so we can have cheap oil? When it comes to energy and the future,we have got to avoid the nay-sayers and cynics.Believe me,Exxon and Haliburton aren`t going to do this,in fact,they`re going to spend millions to keep things just as they are.

WisconsinOwner -> RE: General Abizaid says Iraq war is about oil.Someone telling the truth,how refreshing. (10/20/2007 9:13:06 AM)
Since when do we take the word of the dictator of a terroist friendly nation for the price of bread let alone to listen to his rantings regarding the motivations of a government they have proven no true knowledge of??

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078125