The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/15/2007 10:24:23 PM)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHVHFK8tFBx8&refer=home

Of course, the bushies and his brown nosers, are trying to throw him under the bus.

I thought that the neo-cons said that they listen the military experts.

Did I hear that wrong?




luckydog1 -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 12:32:28 AM)

"``This enemy is more dangerous than any we have faced in the 20th century,'' said Sanchez, adding that a sudden withdrawal of troops from Iraq would unleash chaos in the Middle East. " 
You are the one disagreeing, right?

The White House said its focus remains on the present, and it referred to signs of progress cited in last month's congressional testimony by General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker.
``We appreciate his service to the country,'' National Security Council spokeswoman Kate Starr said of Sanchez. ``As General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker said, there's more work to be done but progress is being made in Iraq.''  
Not much of a bus squashing.

Interstingly (and not in this story) are his comments about the media and the anti war politicians, and thier reckless reporting of things like Abu Graihd and Haditha. This story covers it by leading with
"Retired Army Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, who led U.S. forces in Iraq during the Abu Ghraib prisoner-abuse scandal, criticized American leaders for placing partisan gain at home above victory abroad and consigning America to a ``nightmare with no end in sight.''

Neo Cons have no problem at all with what Sanchez said....




meatcleaver -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 1:40:07 AM)

British general Jackson in not so many words said the the plans for after the invasion were moronic to the extent they existed at all. It appears most of the British military were against the invasion as it was a nutty idea from the beginning but Blair, their political boss wouldn't listen.

Another British general said if he was an Iraqi he would be fighting the British and Americans, that is what you do when someone has booted the door down to your country and trampled over your women and children.

Rumsfeld and fellow neo-cons have shown themselves up for being dangerously ideological and intellectually vacuous. Bush is moronic and still hasn't grasped foreign affairs even after all his time in office. He is brain dead.




farglebargle -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 2:48:31 AM)

quote:

`This enemy is more dangerous than any we have faced in the 20th century,''


I guess he thought the Nazis were Pretty Nifty, then? Or the Damned Commies, eh?

quote:

``As General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker said, there's more work to be done but progress is being made in Iraq.''


INSUFFICIENT progress. 17% is a FAILING SCORE. Bush's Foreign Policy failed. Bush's Surge Strategy Failed. The occupation has failed. Game over, man. Game over.

The surge strategy killed what, 750 US Soldiers, WHO COULD HAVE EASILY LIVED.

In the past 24 hours, 3 more soldiers have died because YOU DID NOT BRING THEM HOME, SAFELY, YESTERDAY.

Nice "Supporting our Troops", there.

How many more will you let die with your tacit or explicit support of Bush?




popeye1250 -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 8:18:48 AM)

I'm still trying to figure out why we're in Iraq when BinLaden and al qeada are in Pakistan.




MickeySwitch -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 8:48:20 AM)

As I recall it, the first real reason given was by Rumsfeld, who said there were no more good targets to bomb in Afghanistan and there were much better targets in Iraq.  Probably the only partially honest reason we've been given.  After that it has been the shuffling random excuse of the week starting with bogus WMDs.  And that was absurd to any thinking person at that time. 

During the Cuban Missile crisis, Kennedy had PICTURES of soviet missiles.  Shrub has 100 times the intelligence gathering capabilities than Kennedy could have ever hoped for -- and even with that Shrub has had zero confirmable intelligence about Iraq that could have justified his war.  Saddam had been an asshole for decades and half of that time he was our ally ... so justifying war because he was an asshole never made sense.  And bringing democracy to Iraq ... give me a break!  We don't seem to give a damn about bringing democracy to our allies there.  We are subverting the strong democratic base in Iran. 

The Brits had confirmed they had BinLaden & his group IN SIGHT & IN RANGE while he was escaping in the early part of the war in Afghanistan and they were told by the US to stand down so that Americans could capture him ... but by the time the US forces arrived, he was gone. 

It's always been about oil and showboating.  All the rest is lies, wrapped in lies, topped with lies, with lies on the side.  And our boys are dying so shrub can showboat.  The even more pathetic part of this, he hasn't even been competant enough to get the damned oil.  He's failed at his secret primary goal, and all of the excuses he claims he went there for as well.  And now he & his bought-general Petraeus (who was appointed but never confirmed by the the Congress as law requires) are stalling so he can dump the whole fucking mess onto the next president.  He's taken the largest budget excess &  bankrupted our economy, he's spent everyone's social security for the next 20-30 years (& medicare as well).  And recently he said, piss on the poor kids, they don't need health insurance.  By the time he's done with our economy, (after the phony accounting is figured out), we'll be a third world nation like Argentina was a decade ago.

And the BS about "if we don't fight them there, they'll come here" ... hell ... he's the best terrorist recruiter that exists.  We have 10 times as many terrorists to worry about now BECAUSE of Shrub. Old man Bush would have served his country better if his balls had been blown off instead of getting hit in the arm.

PROUD TO SAY I'VE VOTED AGAINST SHRUB 4 TIMES NOW.  I knew he was a liar & a con man when he was running for governor.

And ... I'm sick & tired of everyone saying "our war" in Iraq, or "we" should not have gone in.  BS:  there is no 'WE' ... this war was unprovoked & unilaterally started by Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld ... it's THEIR war & THEY should be held accountable for it. 

And if you want to know what I REALLY think about Shrub ... just ask me when I'm PMSing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
I'm still trying to figure out why we're in Iraq when BinLaden and al qeada are in Pakistan.




NorthernGent -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 11:43:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'm still trying to figure out why we're in Iraq when BinLaden and al qeada are in Pakistan.



Because the majority of Americans wanted the US government/army to invade Iraq? 'Just a wild stab in the dark.

Bin Laden has about the same relevance to US foreign policy as Santa Claus. Al-Quaeda are pretty much everywhere (no heart attack intended for the crusaders of the board): they're a loose bunch who share an idea, rather than a sophisticated, co-ordinated outfit; put it this way, they're no IRA. The more you piss these people off, the more you feed the idea.




MzMia -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 8:45:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'm still trying to figure out why we're in Iraq when BinLaden and al qeada are in Pakistan.


I have been saying the same thing for about 4 years now.
Has there been a Bin Laden sighting lately?
Here we are with all our technological advances, and we can't find

a disabled and sick man living in a cave.




MzMia -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/16/2007 8:50:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

British general Jackson in not so many words said the the plans for after the invasion were moronic to the extent they existed at all. It appears most of the British military were against the invasion as it was a nutty idea from the beginning but Blair, their political boss wouldn't listen.

Another British general said if he was an Iraqi he would be fighting the British and Americans, that is what you do when someone has booted the door down to your country and trampled over your women and children.

Rumsfeld and fellow neo-cons have shown themselves up for being dangerously ideological and intellectually vacuous. Bush is moronic and still hasn't grasped foreign affairs even after all his time in office. He is brain dead.


I am not sure that Bush is brain dead, but he has shown me time and time again that he will NEVER
change his course.
That has always been his platform and yet he was re-elected AGAIN.
Bush has been saying the same things since he was elected, and he never changes his course, no matter
WHAT.
My problem is with those that voted for him, and yet are angry because he refuses to change his course.
Its like the snake that you pick up.
You knew it was a snake, and you picked it up, and now you are mad because it does what snakes do.




UtopianRanger -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/17/2007 1:29:46 AM)

quote:

Has there been a Bin Laden sighting lately?



Nope....sure hasn't. But a tape or cd of him depicting some ominous warning sure seems to always show up when the regime has its back to the wall, struggling to reinvigorate failed tactics and policy.





- R





Real0ne -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/17/2007 2:49:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

Has there been a Bin Laden sighting lately?



Nope....sure hasn't. But a tape or cd of him depicting some ominous warning sure seems to always show up when the regime has its back to the wall, struggling to reinvigorate failed tactics and policy.





- R




yeh hegelian dialectic runs the same course as a heroin addict.  (at least till people forget)




Politesub53 -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/17/2007 3:06:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'm still trying to figure out why we're in Iraq when BinLaden and al qeada are in Pakistan.


The troops being used in Iraq could, make that should, have instead been used to try and seal the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. Its not in the US interest to alienate Pakistan by acting alone there, that would just create more Bin Ladens.....




Real0ne -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/17/2007 4:18:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'm still trying to figure out why we're in Iraq when BinLaden and al qeada are in Pakistan.


The troops being used in Iraq could, make that should, have instead been used to try and seal the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. Its not in the US interest to alienate Pakistan by acting alone there, that would just create more Bin Ladens.....



So?

Got any "real" evidence that Bin Laden was involved in 911?

If you do you are doing better than the FBI!  LOL






LadyEllen -> RE: The latest military general to say that Iraq war is a failure. (10/17/2007 4:51:12 AM)

Hang about a minute - this is a war? I seem to recall being told it was a UN police action regarding violation of armistice accords, or maybe that it was a liberation, or even maybe that it was a regime change. No one mentioned war. Wars are horrible afer all, people get killed and maimed - but police actions, liberations and regime changes are all nice and good and virtuous things.

By the way, it was a failure the moment the A-10s took off for their first run to Baghdad. Anyone with half a brain knew how it would turn out. The only mystery is why someone with less than half a brain got into a position to start it, and someone with more than half a brain went along with it. Perhaps their bankers might be a useful recourse to answer this mystery?

E




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