Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (Full Version)

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Ldhoney -> Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:36:41 AM)

Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to ((NOT)) EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?

I ask this because that is why i entered this. I recognize i am a person who loves to please, and make others happy by full filling what they need or request. But i went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.

So..again i ask... Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to not EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?


Laura (day 2)




crouchingtigress -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:43:06 AM)

not at all unheard of , this is a place to explore power, and all its yummy, scary, raw, naked, and trancendant, faces.

welcome.




MissDelicious -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:45:31 AM)

Yes tiz possible.  Dom/mes, can become switches or subs and all the other combinations that are possible.Although I'm not sure it wouldn't be better for you to become less submissive in the other area's of your life first. Don't confuse dominance with assertiveness. The trouble with doing it this way, is that other people are involved.

It sounds to me as if you would be better off learning how to become more assertive in your daily life. There are assertiveness courses you can take, counselling, etc., to help you realise that goal. Then you will be more assured of who and what you are.

Good luck!![:)]




hisannabelle -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:45:59 AM)

greetings ldhoney,

i think the issue here is how you (personally) define "submissive" and how that informs your identity/sense of self.

i am personally a bit of a doormat and people pleaser when it comes down to it, and part of being a healthy, functioning slave for me has been to learn to temper that and to take care of myself and my needs as well. but learning that i needed to overcome that in some ways does not, to me, mean rejecting submission, because to me, that is not the entirety of what it means to be a submissive. my identity as a slave encompasses more than that, and part of the formation of that identity has been to have a more nuanced sense of when it is appropriate and healthy for me to say yes and please everyone and when it is appropriate and healthy to say no. to me learning to discern that and to follow it has been part of building my submission, not overcoming it.

so no, it is not unheard of, although you may hear people talk about it differently (i would not use the terms overcoming submissiveness personally) while they still might mean the same thing by it. my advice would be to stop and truly examine what submissiveness means to you and what it means to you to be submissive, and to maybe consider if you wish to redefine that before choosing to toss it altogether ;) but if that particular term is defined in such a way that it is something you feel you need to overcome...then that's what you personally feel  you need to do. it's not right or wrong, necessarily.

respectfully,
annabelle.




littlesarbonn -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:46:51 AM)

What you want to be in this lifestyle is whatever you want to be. You don't have to be submissive in order to be a pleasing person. If someone tries to convince you it has to be some other way, that person isn't respecting what you want and need to be, so it's obviously the wrong person.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:48:39 AM)

Honey, you can't overcome the fact that you're submissive--that's going to be with you all your life.  But you certainly can do things to keep people from walking all over you.  One idea is to think of yourself as your master's property before he has found you.  If you let OTHER people walk all over you, that's not treating your future master with much respect, is it?  For now, keep yourself fit, keep your mind in the right place, and assert yourself when someone tries to bully you, and then when your master claims you, give everything you have to HIM.

Not to random assholes who want to take advantage of you.




phoenixinchains -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:58:16 AM)





     i am reading a trust issue here. just me maybe. it seems that you are afraid as to what limits you might go were the oppertunity presented. you are afraid that you might not say "no" when you should, perhaps you're thinking of mistakes you've already made.
   look inside yourself and learn that soul whose asking so many questions. even a sub has willpower, learn your limits and nurture that voice that says "no" or at least "not yet,"
   and if i'm totally off base, ignor the rambling of this imsomniac : ) phoenix






spanklette -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 1:59:50 AM)

Submissives and Dominants come in all shapes and sizes outside of the dungeon. Submissives aren't necessarily submissive to everyone, which is when you'll probably hear the term "doormat" come into play. Being submissive gives you the opportunity to choose who you submit to and when. That would be "embracing" and, in my opinion, enjoying your role.
 
The word "submissive" doesn't encompass who I am with everyone, but it is a side that I show to a select few. If I were you, I'd check out some of the self help sections at your local bookstore...this isn't so much a kink problem as a people pleaser problem. There are plenty of vanilla folk out there saying yes on the outside and screaming no on the inside...gotta learn how to say no, and not feel guilty about it.




SixFootMaster -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 2:08:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to ((NOT)) EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?

I ask this because that is why i entered this. I recognize i am a person who loves to please, and make others happy by full filling what they need or request. But i went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.

So..again i ask... Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to not EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?


Laura (day 2)


While you can fight against who and what you are, and turn your back on your own inner nature - and while you may even do so successfully for many years - it is exceptionally unlikely you will ever reach the heights of fullfillment that are your heritage in being yourself. That said, recognising who to and when to submit can be extremely important to functioning in contemporary (or I suppose non-contemporary) society. Exploring the nature of dominance, and the traits of good dominant men that are worthy of your submission will help you adjust.

In regards to people taking advantage of you - this isn't so much a case of submissiveness, but in generally being of the gentle pleasing nature. Rather than learning not to submit, you need to learn a little of how to assert yourself - even though it might be against who you are. It is better to protect your gentle nature than to be damaged and jaded from its abuse.




ExSteelAgain -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 2:08:55 AM)

Along the line of what someone else said, because you are a person who loves to please and make others happy doesn’t necessarily mean you are submissive. That may be a personality trait that has nothing to do with a D/s bent.

You may get into this and learn to enjoy immensely whipping someone or being whipped and it will have absolutely nothing to do with your trait of wanting to make others happy by fulfilling what they need.

You could get into a whole discussion of Doms being people who like to make others happy because they give submissives what they need via BDSM. There are Doms, Masters, subs and slaves with all sorts of personalities. Often submissive types are happily demanding, using, task maker bosses in most of their lives except with their Doms.

You could be a little down on yourself now for some reason and finding fault with one small aspect of your personality while attributing that to a submissive view. If you enjoyed having someone do something for you, do you think that fact alone would make you a Domme?




RapierFugue -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 2:15:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to ((NOT)) EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?

I ask this because that is why i entered this. I recognize i am a person who loves to please, and make others happy by full filling what they need or request. But i went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.

So..again i ask... Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to not EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?


Laura (day 2)


Not unheard of, no, although it’s a little unusual, but hey, what’s wrong with unusual?
 
I have had quite a bit of experience of girls who want to dip their toes into the water, as it were, as they have sub leanings, but either aren’t sure whether they’re genuine, real-life ones, or just fantasies, or sometimes are sure they’re submissive, but are terrified by the thought that, if they “give in” to those feelings and actually try it, they’ll end up addicted or controlled by it all their lives.
 
I can’t speak for submissives, but from my dom POV I can’t not be me, if you follow me; I did try wholly vanilla for a while, but it just wasn’t me.  But not everyone is that cut-and-dried about it; it’s clear that you’re somewhat conflicted at the moment, but that will work itself out over time I’m sure.
 
Lastly, and this is obvious but I’ll point it out anyway, a lack of assertiveness is not the same thing as being a submissive; it’s perfectly possible to assert your personality within the confines of the rest of your life (ie work, family etc) and be submissive only sexually.  I realise that’s not quite what you were asking, but I thought I’d lob it in there anyway.
 
<reviews post>
 
No help at all.  Sorry!




eyesopened -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 2:29:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney
But i went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.
Laura (day 2)


Insecurity is not the same as submissive.  People pleasers often have a hard time saying 'no' and are often afraid of confrontations and thereby let others walk over them.  Being submissive is to yield to the authority of another.  It should feel good.  Not feeling confident enough to assert personal boundaries doesn't feel good, it is yielding to everyone even when you know they have no authority.  It's like the car who stops at the entrance ramp on the interstate, i have yelled: "It says YIELD.... not GIVE UP!"

One thing this lifestyle can teach you is to know the difference between who has authority in your life and who doesn't. 




Celeste43 -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 4:16:10 AM)

I found that I became stronger in other areas once my submissive needs were being met with him. Before that drive came out in inappropriate ways. Sort of like having the kitchen faucet on but the drain is closed, guaranteed you'll flood the floor. Open the drain and it all goes down there instead.

In the beginning, he insisted I talk to one new person a day while looking them in the eye and smiling. I must have held doors for every elderly person in town that year and had more inconsequential talks about the weather than is imaginable!




KnightofMists -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 4:21:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to ((NOT)) EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?

I ask this because that is why i entered this. I recognize i am a person who loves to please, and make others happy by full filling what they need or request. But i went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.

So..again i ask... Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to not EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?

Laura (day 2)


mmmmmmmmm seems to me you need to learn what the distinction of being a strong healthy submissive person is and being a weak insecure person is.  The two are very different.... and it can be even worse if the weak insecure person also happens to be submissive. 




Cyntilating -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 4:29:22 AM)

Ldhoney
 
    I do understand and can relate to your question.

I have always been a people-pleaser, nurturer...
Honestly, I spent too many years helping and caring about and taking care of everyone else more than myself.
 
For me personally, I had to find my own healthy way of being the above, before I could hope to find a healthy relationship ( in or out of this lifestyle).

I do not want to stop being a caring, helpful and giving person.
I just needed to learn how to include MYSELF in that as well..and with priority.
Sounds like you have already decided that for yourself as well...that's half the battle > recognizing that you are not balanced in that area ( took me 35 years to figure that out ).

Can you do that within a bdsm d/s relationship?   Not sure you can.
IMO if we are unhealthy we will find unhealthy.  There are plenty of people out there who are seeking victims or doormats.
"THEY" will find you before a healthy person will.
and unless you have your head on straight, priorities in line and self-esteem in tack, you will let them "find" you .

I find Ds relationship to be very empowering, and have learned so much about my personal power, and how to submit to another without losing myself,  because of my relationship with Master.  I have posted before> that if I hadn't done my prior ( co-dependancy) "self improvement work" > I don't think I would have or could have experienced it the way I have been able to.

I do not see being a submissive is the same as being passive or submissive to everything/one in our lives.
and  I don't submit from a place of weakness or neediness.

perhaps, rather than trying to "overcome" your nature, if it is turned inward onto Ldhoney it might be more clearly a strength than a weakness to you .
I hope that made sense ..not sure I said that as well as the thought in my brain.
meaning give yourself your own care, nurturing, pleasing, helping...first.
Feel it as a strength.  
if you treat it like a weakness you will find someone who uses it as a weakness...and vica-versa.

smiles






TNstepsout -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 5:16:37 AM)

I didn't come into it to learn how not to be submissive, but that is what happened to me. I found that I wasn't really submissive, but that I had been programmed to be passive, compliant, to put others ahead of myself and to be a rescuer in my upbringing and throughout my marriage. When I first wandered this way, I thought that meant I was submissive.

I tried to be submissive and found that I was simply terrified. I felt that if I was going to submit to someone I HAD to learn how to protect myself better. I had to learn to speak up to dominant people, to face my natural inclination to back down to someone who was aggressive and possibly over bearing. If I couldn't do that I would be very vulnerable as a sub. The only problem with that is that once I began to model this type of behavior I found I really had no inclination to submit at all.

So just keep in mind that there are a lot of behavioral tendencies that can be a part of a submissive personality, but that in an of themselves are not submissive. If you are a "doormat" out of fear and anxiety, then perhaps you aren't really submissive. Or perhaps you are, but you can't act on the positive aspects of submissiveness because you are overwhelmed with responding out of fear. (I hope that makes sense)




sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 5:23:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to ((NOT)) EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?


unheard of for me since i openly embrace my submissive side.

i do aim to please (sometimes too much) however i'm not a "doormat" for others to walk over but there are other qualities in which makes me special to Daddy and my SO/Dom.

.




CutieMouse -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 5:26:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
mmmmmmmmm seems to me you need to learn what the distinction of being a strong healthy submissive person is and being a weak insecure person is.  The two are very different.... and it can be even worse if the weak insecure person also happens to be submissive. 


What he said.

Looking at your profile and your other (day 1) post to the forum... BDSM is not therapy. It won't treach you to be pleasant without letting people walk all over you. It won't teach you to set healthy boundaries - you (ideally) need to already know how to set those so you can make wise decisions regarding your submission. It won't teach you confidence, or good judgement, or how to overcome shyness.

Get thee to a qualified professional (cognative behaviour modification works well, BTW), learn to set healthy boundaries, THEN worry about if you are a submissive or not.




Termyn8or -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 5:32:58 AM)

Being insecure, submissive and having a desire to please others are three different things.

Big surprise, Domimants want to please submissives.Those submissives might not be doormats in the rest of life, they could be ruthless in business and personal politics, yet melt when they get to the dungeon.

I think the main problem is the insecurity. Nothing can be done about the basic insecurity of the world and it is natural to doubt the longevity of one's life, or the life of the human race. You never know when there is going to be another terrorist attack, or some crazy shooting up a restaraunt in which to are dining. There is nothing that can be done about that right now. But realize the odds. Alot of people died last year, but out of 300,000,000 what are your odds ?

The other kind of insecurity is a personal problem. It can be worked out, although it is difficult. It is difficult to develop assertiveness, but it can be done.

One way is thinking down. When you see a loudmouth spouting off, think "Bet this guy is compensating for his small dick". Similarly with a female "I bet she wears tight panties so her lips are not sticking out of her pantlegs". It doesn't have to be just that. "I bet this was the asshole that caused a 20 car pileup the other day". "What, is your brain starved for oxygen because you forgot to breathe between those stupid comments ?". Things like that.

Just like they used to tell shy people before the had to speak in front of an audience "Think of all of them in their underwear". Of course you don't blurt out your thoughts. In fact a pause at just the right moment can be quite useful.

There are many submissives out there who will plainly assert that nobody is going to dominate them unless they want it. A dominant can be a doormat at work, and a submissive could be a strawboss on a plantation. Your behavior in a relationship is independent from the person you are, or seem to be, in the rest of the world.

OK, I am listed as a switch, but in life I am one of the most dominant people you will ever meet. I doubt I have used the word please three times all year, and you know this is October. I DO, however, know how to make a request that does not sound like an order, but sometimes it is an order.

At my house, well I paid good money for a new toilet. This is not one of those ornate things, it's form is normal, but it is a high tech-high performance model. There is a sign over it that says "Do not put cigarette butts in the toilet". At least half of the people out in the world would put the word please in front of that, but not me.

Part of my job is to assist other technicians, when I first started one job I did this and got thankyous. I told them straight out "Don't thank me, this is my job, I get paid well to do it so there is no need to thank me. We are a team". OK I am a hotshot, one of the best, but not to blow my own horn, to also illustrate why I do not waste time on these anemities when on the clock. Please became "I need", thankyou because "Cool". However when my car got stolen and I needed a ride home, a junior tech, not really a trainee but not all that far from it, gave me a ride home. I said "Thank you", not thanks. Not cool. An actual thank you.

That is above and beyond. What he does for me in the shop amounts to being an assistant. Let me ask you this, on a football team, does the quarterback thank each and every one of the linemen for giving him time to get a pass out ? No, that is their job.

Then there are the absolutes. Recently I decided that a unit had to be scrapped. We were losing too much time on it, it had become the sourest of all lemons. I walked up to the owner and I did not say "We should", or "Get me out from under", I just said "Scrap it". The reply stated that doing that would cost the company money, I already knew this, I have run such a company, I have been on that side of the desk. My reply was literally "I know, but just how much fucking money do you want to pay me to bang my head up against a brick wall ?".

The point is that you need to have confidence in your own decisions, your own intelligence. This requires that you think things through. But when you know you are right, say so, in even tones.

Never yell. You can raise your voice, but there is a difference between that and yelling. That difference lies in your attitude. Even if you storm out of a room from a heated argument, raise your voice to get the last word in maybe, but do not yell. Many people don't really conciously think about this, either on the yelling side or the listening side, but subliminally it has a bearing on the listener's opinion of the yeller, or voice-raiser, whichever.

Never lie. To lie is to admit that someone holds enough power to make it necessary for you to lie to them. Of course when dealing with the government, everybody lies. But look at the power of the government. They will spend millions and send SWAT teams to make you comply. In that case it is an admission of the superiority of their position. Note that I DID NOT SAY SUPERIORITY. It is simply that they have a sound advantage against you. To lie to friends or acquaintences is to elevate them to that status in your mind.

Do you live independently and pay your own bills ? If so you are the God or Godess of your castle. If you are submissive, for example, and your Dom/me is over, it should be clear. When it is time to go into foot licking mode there should be a sign. For example (look where we are) putting on a collar. Or a certain outfit or something. Or it could be certain times or whatever. But in other matters you are allowed to be a real bitch if you please. Of course if you go over to your Dom/me's place you should probably already be wearing it, or in that mode.

Here's an example that just popped into my head. You are subbing at the time and a telemarketer calls, the Dom/me hands the phone to you. Sicem ! Let it all hang out now. And keep them on the phone for a while. Let the bitch show, in spades.

Just a tiny example of possibilities. But the point is, if you wish to be submissive, you only have to be submissive to one. Not the whole world.

If you learn to think and feel dominant in the world at large, you might no longer wish to be submissive, or you might. If you subliminate your submissiveness using some mental techniques, but do not embrace it, your need to submit will grow. For example going to work and bossing 40 people around would enhance you submissive nature with a mate or playmate. Going to work and being assertive all day would be like putting a chastity belt on a nymphomaniac. (or a guy lol)

Whichever way your life goes it goes. There is no way to predict it without psychoanalysis, and even if I was really qualified and do that, what they do in hourly sessions but takes me about a year of knowing someone, it could not be done on the internet.

It doesn't matter which way it goes, sounds to me there is an aspect of your personality you wish to change. If you succeed it is an improvement.

Hope you got something out of this. Be well, or get well.

T




Dari -> RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! (10/12/2007 5:37:08 AM)

Agreeing with CutieMouse and KnightofMists here.

You need to learn how to be strong, and to find that strength of self that allows you to make healthy, balanced choices for yourself.  Once you do that, then you can start to explore whether you're submissive or Dominant, and how this lifestyle will work for you.  As it is right now, you're vulnerable to all kinds of crazy people, and you're in a very dangerous place on a personal level, whether you know it or not.

As Cutie said - get thee to a qualified professional!




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