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RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 5:48:59 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to ((NOT)) EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?

I ask this because that is why i entered this. I recognize i am a person who loves to please, and make others happy by full filling what they need or request. But I went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.

So..again i ask... Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to not EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?
Laura (day 2)


I can speak to you, from the perspective of someone who is a people pleaser.  But first, I'd like to say that there is very little that is 'unheard of,' in BDSM circles, so take faith that you are not alone. 

There is nothing wrong with making others happy, and being a people pleaser UNLESS you neglect to remember that you are a person too and deserve to be as happy as any other person.  Once you value your own 'person' and know what boundaries to place in your life, you can learn to apply varying degrees of assertiveness.  I know this is not often easy.  As a people pleaser, I still get sick to my stomache when I have to assert myself in a way that is going to anger another person.  Sometimes, I will dwell on doing so for days and question myself, feel guilty for having done so and wonder if I did the right thing. So, I do understand the need to fortify yourself against such anguish and potential hurt by assuming a more dominant persona.      In my case, I FOUND that I do possess some dominant traits, as well as submissive ones.  What fulfills ME most?  Well, not the matter of your topic and irrelevent here.  Someone offered me advice that has helped me to this day, about projecting a positive image.  She said, 'if you don't feel confident in how you portray yourself, seek out somenoe you respect and admire and emulate those behaviors.  Don't be fake about it, but study those aspects of who they are and what they do, and aspire toward them.  Eventually what you do and how you think, will help mold you into the person you want to be.'  In a sense, this is what I see you doing in taking on the role of a dominant, to better assert yourself.  You can learn some wonderful skills doing this..  It won't, however, make you any less submissive if that is who you are, inherently. 

From my experience, the most influential dominant persons in my life were nurturers.  Caring, giving, and loving individuals who ALSO possessed an inate confidence and a need to take control of others - but in a mentor like fashion.  So, giving of yourself to others is not, primarily, a dominant trait.  There is a wide spectrum of personalities in both dynamics.

Knowing who you are, is a very good thing.  Recognizing those traits that bring you harm or disatisfaction, is wonderful as well.  There are many who do not have an honest view of themselves and so continue repeating the same mistakes over and over and never realize that the fault isn't in others, but themselves. 

If your lifestyle choices work for you and you find fulfillment in taking the dominant role, wonderful!   If it doesn't, be willing to negotiate with yourself, about what it is you need.  When you try something that isn't working - adjust your thinking a bit so that you can allow for a different approach.  When you have learned some skills, and how to assert yourself, you may  eventually find that dropping to your knees for the right person in your life; and BEING submissive; and allowing yourself to give unconditionally, brings you fulfillment.  You may just find that you've come home to yourself.

Best wishes Ldhoney.  My heart goes out to you.

edited for typos and clarification

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 10/12/2007 6:28:52 AM >

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 6:49:06 AM   
ddthrill


Posts: 45
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Honey, you can't overcome the fact that you're submissive--that's going to be with you all your life.  But you certainly can do things to keep people from walking all over you.  One idea is to think of yourself as your master's property before he has found you.  If you let OTHER people walk all over you, that's not treating your future master with much respect, is it?  For now, keep yourself fit, keep your mind in the right place, and assert yourself when someone tries to bully you, and then when your master claims you, give everything you have to HIM.

Not to random assholes who want to take advantage of you.


To Lordandmaster -thank you kindly. Your words are the most comforting, embraving any girl could hear.

 just another frightened submissive

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 7:03:25 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
mmmmmmmmm seems to me you need to learn what the distinction of being a strong healthy submissive person is and being a weak insecure person is.  The two are very different.... and it can be even worse if the weak insecure person also happens to be submissive. 


I agree with this entirely. Being shy, weak, insecure and letting people walk all over you are not traits that define submission.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 7:42:26 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		One of the first things the dominants I met, who were not wankers, did was start helping me learn to say "no" to things that were not good for me. It's very difficult for me not to take care of everyone else at my own expense. That is NOT what the dominants in my life want from me. After all, if I don't stay healthy then I can't serve them well when they want my service. So, I have spent almost 2 years learning to say "no" to many different things and being able to do better service to the dominants I have chosen to serve.

My answer to your question though is yes. This can be a great place to learn to not be overly-submissive and become a wise submissive instead.

Just my thoughts........ 

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 8:48:08 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CutieMouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
mmmmmmmmm seems to me you need to learn what the distinction of being a strong healthy submissive person is and being a weak insecure person is.  The two are very different.... and it can be even worse if the weak insecure person also happens to be submissive. 


What he said.

Looking at your profile and your other (day 1) post to the forum... BDSM is not therapy. It won't treach you to be pleasant without letting people walk all over you. It won't teach you to set healthy boundaries - you (ideally) need to already know how to set those so you can make wise decisions regarding your submission. It won't teach you confidence, or good judgement, or how to overcome shyness.

Get thee to a qualified professional (cognative behaviour modification works well, BTW), learn to set healthy boundaries, THEN worry about if you are a submissive or not.


What both said!

I think what you describe is byproducts of issues interacting with your personality and not I am submissive so I have to also deal with these issues.

The best way to deal with problems like these is to deal with them directly. Part of finding our way in life is being happy and for many of us that includes forgoing a “regular” relationship and entering into a power exchange relationship. The reality is though there is no difference for your problems you gallantly want to overcome. Being in a relationship that makes you happy will for the most part bring a boost of confidence to anyone male/female or dominant/submissive that can help are issues on some level but not fix them out right.

So for you enter into this life has given you more courage and effort to deal with things you want to work on and I say bravo. Whether a vanilla partner, dominant partner, friend or professional helps you really is not the issue. You want to help yourself and need to look for the best way for you to fix yourself and if this life is part of the solution, wonderful.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to CutieMouse)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 8:51:59 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

So..again i ask... Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to not EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?


Laura (day 2)


To me it's like overcoming being gay. Either you were lying/confused about your sexuality (or more likely in d/s, just didn't realize you were a dominant yet) and you were never gay in the first place or you were just bisexual (or a switch in this case) and you are just ignoring the other half now.

Now the question is: Why the hell would you want to overcome being a submissive? By embracing who I am as a submissive I have gained more self-confidence and it has helped me realized that I can't please everyone all the time, not even Valyraen. Valyraen has helped me say no when I just don't have the time or the energy to help or please someone but I haven't "overcome" my submission. Just stopped submitting to everyone.

Edited for typos

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/12/2007 8:55:25 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 9:20:14 AM   
murmur


Posts: 394
Joined: 9/26/2005
Status: offline 		for some people, being submissive means to not get up for what you believe in, for who you are, to be looked at in a deceiving, pitifull manner, letting yourself be crushed by others. and also, well, i've seen submissives be even *more* confident then some Dominants. funny thing huh?
being submissive shouldnt mean having to give up confidence, it should mean learning to get some more from embracing and accepting your nature, accepting your true self.
Love who you are and if you cant do that, learn to accept it. (if you do this one thing, it,ll be easier to do the second)
Others will see/sense that, respect it, you,ll learn to love it and ask more of it, that respect that you're worth having from them, being submissive or not.
Each morning i used to look at the mirror and questionning what i saw. What did it mean to be me, what did it mean to accept who i was. It wouldnt change much for the people around me, but it did change the way i saw the world and others around me.
I begun to first see me, understand who i was, why i was me. Little by little, by seeing and understanding, the accepting came easier, cause i had no other choice to accept it - i wasnt anyone else, i was me. Make as well make the most of it by not letting other people crush me. They were the one with a problem, not me.
Today i do not have to look in the mirror. I know exactly who will look back at me if i do.
It's not a question of overcoming, it's a question of embracing, as many here have already beautifully said the same thing.

edited to point out my Socrate quote! Become who you are, there's no other truth for yourself than yourself.

< Message edited by murmur -- 10/12/2007 9:22:24 AM >

_____________________________

Become who you are. - Socrate

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 9:33:56 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Having read your post yesterday, I am wondering if this stems from having your first real time experience in submission. After 2 years of being online, is it possible that your first experience has been far from what you had imagined it would be or has left you feeling much differently than what you had anticipated?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 9:48:06 AM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline 		AquaticSub:
Maybe it is like mistoferen .. and actually .. you too said as well.

Now you can balance a strong individuality, high self esteem, and avoid those who would drain you without giving in return.  Yet  - remain open to surrender in a solid trusting relationship.

V. guided you to that spot, right?  Some have to achieve this on their own.  The two of you have built the loving bond that allows this unity. 
Happiness -

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 9:50:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		as others have wisely mentioned, submissive does not equal weak, shy, insecure and self-abusive.  this slave has witnessed many a self-professed Dominant with the same exact issues...just different modes of rationalizing the behaviors.
 
this slave didn't enter into this realm of relationship orientation to be fixed and have her submissive nature and prior training "overcome".  if that were her purpose, she would have gone to a mainstream therapist, all teary-eyed and whatnot.

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 10:15:39 AM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline 		I read your other post, the one about your first day as a sub, and I am feeling very strong gut feeling that something isn't quite right here. In my opinion, good reasons for entering the BDSM lifestyle include because it turns you on, makes you happy, you find it fun, it adds to your life, fulfills you, helps you be the person you want to be, etc. Reasons that are not good for entering the BDSM lifestyle include thinking that it is going to fix you in any way. I saw a great t-shirt once that said "WIITWD is not a substitute for psychotherapy." It's a cute shirt but oh-so-true. (Since you're new, WIITWD = What it is that we do.) I think more harm than good can come out of the mentality that exploring submission will cure you of anything. From my strictly non-professional, arm chair psychologist point of view, you need to work on these issues by yourself or with someone who is qualified until you feel happy with who you are and what you want - before turning it into bedroom play. And while I KNOW what we do is not "bedroom play" to most of us here, I got the impression that your husband and the "dom from craigslist" haven't the slightest actual insight into the psychology behind Dominance and submission and should not be trusted or expected to produce anything more than bedroom scenes that they find arousing.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to Dari)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 11:33:42 AM   
Babybass


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/30/2007
Status: offline 		Personally I also found that embracing and accepting my submissive side allowed me to be more confident in other areas as I was being true to myself. For the first time ever i had allowed myself to show someone who i really was and not have that rejected - for me, part of being submissive is baring your soul to your partner, allowing them to see all of you fears and insecurities and even your flaws - it is you in your rawest form. To acept that part of myself and have it accepted, and loved by another person freed me in ways i had not imagined.

_____________________________

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best day and night to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight and never stop fighting" - e e cummings

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 12:11:21 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		I was in much the same situation as you. I lucked out in that the first Domme I was "owned" by had taken it upon herself to retrain my personality somewhat. I was pretty well crushed down as a kid in high school, and that insecurity and low self esteem carried over into my adult life. She was someone who liked to sculpt people to a certain extent. In short order, I was tought to think of myself in terms of being desireable, and that my contributions mattered. From there it was pretty easy to instill a permanent understanding of my own self worth.

Did I want to "get over" being submissive to this wonderful woman? (Or over my need to serve all those who came into my life afterward?) No. But I did get over being a doormat, of being the high school class "goat." Believe it or not, being submissive is something that takes a lot of internal strength. That strength is something that can be amplified by the attention of your dominant. Just knowing you are valued by someone whom you adore and worship does wonders.

(in reply to Dari)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 3:12:43 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to ((NOT)) EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?

I ask this because that is why i entered this. I recognize i am a person who loves to please, and make others happy by full filling what they need or request. But i went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.

So..again i ask... Is it unheard of for a submissive person to enter into BDSM (D/s) to learn how to not EMBRACE that submissive state of who they are but to OVERCOME that they are submissive?


Laura (day 2)


Can you become a happy dominant merely because you don't want to be taken advantage of in life?  I doubt it.  What is your kink?  Do you have kink?  If you tend towards being a top, then sure, do that.  If you don't have kink and are using this as some form of psychotherapy, you need to rethink that and are likely to get yourself in some bad situations here.

Assuming you are submissive, I'm not sure you want to "overcome" who you are rather than learn some balance.  If you are submissive and lean that way maybe what you can learn here is that it's possible to embrace that part of you and NOT be walked on.  Celebrate the fact you are caring and want to please, without "being walked on".  The fact that we are submissive does not mean we don't have rights as human beings and partners and the ability to state those clearly and hold others to them.  Stick around awhile and take a look at the subs on these forums, while they may be in a submissive role, they are for the most part, intelligent, successful, competent, assertive and caring individuals.  Balance is everything.
l

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 10/12/2007 3:44:34 PM >

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 3:56:08 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		If you can't say no, what's the meaning in you saying yes?

Being a submissive doesn't mean you are unable to establish and maintain boundaries- and healthy people learn how to do both of those things in balance with who they are, no matter what kink orientation they happen to be.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 4:03:42 PM   
kirby104


Posts: 94
Joined: 6/6/2005
Status: offline 		That is very articulate. Your words explain ME!

I felt that I had failed as a submissive.My abuser was thrilled by that.

I haven't the desire to serve in any way any more. I have no patience left now.


< Message edited by kirby104 -- 10/12/2007 4:14:43 PM >

(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/12/2007 5:35:10 PM   
amiciaN


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline 		(using fat reply)

I faced much this same issue until I figured out a few things.
  • Submissives are NEEDED by Dominants.  Without someone to serve them, what are all those Dominants going to do?  Dominate thier dog?  Better yet, let them try domming their cat!!!  Anyone can say 'Follow me!", but if no one follows, they aren't leading much, are they?
  • Submissives have VALUE.  Something that is needed is valuable.  Water is cheap compared to gold, but ask someone dying of thirst in the desert if they want gold or water and see what they choose.
  • Submissives are NOT 'BROKEN' people.  Being submissive doesn't mean that there is something wrong with our brains or our emotions, in spite of what pop psychologists want us to believe.  It's one thing to want to go to Restaurant A and be too afraid to say so, and another thing entirely to honestly want the other person to choose whatever would make them happy.
  • I can be submissive to ONE, not everyone. 
Until NChaka collared me, I was aptly described as a 'timid little mouse'.  I knew I didn't set appropriate boundaries, but not only did I have trouble setting them, when I did finally draw the line, I couldn't make it 'stick'.  I would retreat in the face of confrontation and my boundaries would come crashing down.  One of the first things Master did was establish healthy boundaries for me within our relationship and to help me establish healthy boundaries in other areas of my life.  The difference was that His dominance blocked my retreats.  He was 'behind' me, directing the course of my life.  If He says "Go that way", that's the way I go, no retreating and no choice.  Oftentimes, this means being much more assertive with the rest of the world.  I can do it and be okay with that, "because Master said to do so".

That timid little mouse is long gone, but I haven't become a 'bitch on wheels' either.  I would still rather avoid confrontation, but if one presents itself, well then, off to the races we go.  I'm no longer walked on my family or friends.  People know they can depend on me to keep my word because now I will say no or offer alternatives rather than being pressured into agreeing to something I know I can't or shouldn't do.  I don't have to rely on my own authority to back up my boundaries, they are there by Master's authority, not just mine.  I can say no because I'm not allowed by NChaka to be walked on by others and Master's desires and orders come first.  My mother is absolutely amazed at the positive changes and agrees that NChaka is the best thing that's ever happened to me.  And she is one of the people I've had to work the hardest at setting appropriate boundaries with!!

Once I figured out those first few bullet points, I was able to 'guard' what I have to give my Master until He found me.  I was a timid little mouse, but I was a smart little mouse too.  As someone else said, I had to protect what would become His.  For myself, I sort of 'gave' myself to my 'future Master' before He found me.  Almost like I was being held in trust until the right Dominant proved His ownership.  (Yeah, I know, silly little way to psych myself out, but hey, it worked!)  I even turned down a few collars along the way, because they didn't have the right combination of elements to unlock what I was now 'guarding'.  When NChaka came into my life, those locks simply fell open.

I realize I've written a novella here, but it can be boiled down to that last bullet point up there.  By submitting to my One, I've stopped submitting to everyone else.


_____________________________

NChaka's amicia

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

(in reply to kirby104)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/14/2007 7:57:21 AM   
therealboss


Posts: 227
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		just submit to me and you will be ok

_____________________________

be the best

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/14/2007 9:17:53 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ldhoney

But i went into this to learn how to not be submissive in all areas of my life. Let others walk over me, i am too shy, i dont speak up enough, i am insecure... I want to please, but not be a submissive person.

Laura (day 2)


Being these things has nothing to do with being submissive.  You can be a strong, strong willed and strong opinioned, outspoken and secure person and still be submissive.


_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to Ldhoney)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Overcoming being a submissive person. HELP! - 10/14/2007 9:21:55 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Does it bother anyone else that they never come back? - kind of like missing the end of a movie - it bugs me. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Aine)
Profile   Post #: 40
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