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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 6:10:54 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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quote:

But most cannot- even now I hear people who have been in the scene for decades lie to their vanilla friends, people they CHOOSE to be in their lives. I feel so sad for them.


I think this is the crux of it.  I don't feel any negative judgement/consequence because I wouldn't consider someone a friend if I had to lie to them about something that was important to me.  Such people only exist at the margin of my awareness and are in a perpetual state of blurriness because I refuse to focus on them.


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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 6:50:40 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

  Do you think someone can be open, honest, and non secretive regarding their own relationships and sexual practices without experiencing any form of consequence or retribution? 

The only people who are not at risk are those who are single and celibate or married, heterosexual, monogamous and only have sex to procreate. 


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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 7:02:30 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

One of the things that bothers me about the 'BDSM/vanilla barrier' is that we ourselves keep advertizing what we do as being 'dark' and 'taboo' and such. We're making ourselves different in a negative way when we do this. The gay and lesbian communities made leaps and bounds by showing that they are normal, well adjusted human beings. We won't be accepted until we do the same.



Given my previous post to this one, I will fully admit I am guilty of this.

Thats a really good point I will have to think about some in regards to my own outlook on this thing that I do.

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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 7:09:56 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

  There is a tremendous amount of slobbery and blobbery in the "BDSM community" that I find increasingly distasteful; many of its abused and watered down terms have joined the bland parlance of the pervy underground singles circus. 


 
(thread hi-jack)
You have made this statement on various threads.  I don’t understand the concept that a less ‘serious’ (for lack of a better word) outlook regarding any given BDSM practice affects or dilutes how you live your life. 
Does a game of flag football in the back yard water down the NFL?


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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 7:21:40 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		I think mostly what it has to do with is restructure of a family and what it is suppose to be. with the uprise of predators. I mean i am shocked as to what is on G4 the gaming channel kids watch that...
So what happens is society as a whole is just tired of the the garbage   Example teachers that molest students  murder spouse over lover from the net and other things. People do not want to take responsibility. so who gets blamed we do. Then you see people get flogged on public at Folsom that is bit much. SO do you blame society or those trying to push the limits of sexual exploration to its limits. who sets the standards. sometimes it is like a car all the parts worker together even if you modified it has to work together.  We need to stop pushing sexual freedom on people just cause it feels good. lets put some reservation and keep things behind closed doors. keep our lifestyle fun and more exciting.    

  and another do not blame religious things on this. anyone with common sense knows BDSM has been around for centuries and is all through out religious things

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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 7:31:22 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

and another do not blame religious things on this. anyone with common sense knows BDSM has been around for centuries and is all through out religious things


I would agree that many concepts and practices in religion can be taken and applied to BDSM, but the context of these things doesnt make them BDSM. In religious context, they are completely non sexual. In BDSM, they are very sexual and most importantly, sexuality that doesnt result in the birth of a child which is directly opposed to values in some sects of Christianity.


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Advice for New Dominants
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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 8:14:26 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Do you think that in this day in age there is a real and quantifiable fear of persecution and condemnation of BDSM and its aberrant sexual practices and relationships by American society as a whole?
 Not as a whole.  I think there are certain professions where you have to sacrifice the ability to do whatever you want with your free time.  Such as being a minister or missionary. 
quote:


If not society as a whole, do you think there is a "real" threat from certain "groups" or "sects" of people who have agendas in opposition to some of the values presented in BDSM, such as feminists and religious organizations?
 I guess it depends on what you mean by threat.  If my mom knew the extent to which BDSM was a part of my life, her opinion of me would change.  I feel like a  few of my close friends (more feminist-ish) friends wouldn't understand either.  I don't feel threatened physically/job-wise, but at the same time, I care about their opinions.  It would deeply hurt me if I told my friends and they reacted negatively.  I'm not ready to take that step and the idea of them finding out prematurely is a little threatening.
quote:


Do you think someone can be open, honest, and non secretive regarding their own relationships and sexual practices without experiencing any form of consequence or retribution?
 No.  I'm fairly sure I cannot do anything without their being some kind of consequence.
quote:


Have you personally had any experiences or incidents where consequences that affected your life from having your own personal lifestyle "exposed"?
 I had a minor argument with my mom after she saw some bruising.  It hurt me deeply to hear the things she had to say.  I'm pretty sure at this point she thinks it was just a phase and has moved on. 
quote:


Do you think the barriers people construct between "BDSM" and "the Vanilla World" are done out of necessity and need for preservation of a successful life or are done more out of a way of coping with personal fear, insecurity, and uncomfortably with their own sexuality and relationships?
 I think it's probably a mixture of a bunch of things.  In the 1950s I think a close knit community 'BDSM world' type of structure was necessary.  Now, I don't find it all that necessary. 
quote:


Edited To Add One More Question :

Have your experiences with mentioning your unusual sexual and relationship tastes to people who have not labeled themselves as "kinky" been ones of fear, repulsion and aversion or curiousity and tolerance?
 I've only told one person and she was very interested about what I said and how I felt.

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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 8:36:45 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Good god man,  a lot of what I like makes me an outcast HERE. Do think think I'd admit it anywhere else?

< Message edited by RRafe -- 10/11/2007 8:37:07 PM >

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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 8:49:45 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Okay, smart asses

Its pretty clear that I meant negative consequences since I tagged it along side of retributions.

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Advice for New Dominants
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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 8:57:59 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		Im actually surprised that BDSM is as accepted and tolerated as it is.

When it comes to deviant sex practices, its not nearly as reviled as homosexuality or polyamory or cross dressing or a number of other fetishes.

You'd think people would take less issue with a man kissing a man than they would with someone whipping someone and locking them in a cage before forcing them to give head.

(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 9:14:19 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		Went to that link and thought wow for someone who is "anti" bdsm, he sure shows alot of hot hot hot pics-total jerk off material for those interested-perverts like me who love looking at hard bodied men torture each other-I need a fan.......whew

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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 10:25:29 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I had an ex-appartment mate walk in (when I thought he'd be gone for another week..) on me with a girl.  After then on, he always told people I was a pedophile.  Not that her being freaking 25 was a factor- anyone into bondage is a pervert.

Then again, he was a particularly obnixious bastard.

Edit:  Ah, yeah.  Thinking of him gets me off track enough to forget my point.

Anyhow, I was pretty open about the lifestyle until then.  Now, honestly, I'm willing to keep it a bit more discrete to avoid having such an obnixous person constantly pestering me.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 10/11/2007 10:27:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/11/2007 11:45:47 PM   
MsDonnaMia


Posts: 95
Joined: 6/30/2007
Status: offline 		do we ever confuse the NFL with a game of flag football in the back yard? Nope. if we did that just wouldn't be right.
dissassociating from the fetish parade of today is understandable...


quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

  There is a tremendous amount of slobbery and blobbery in the "BDSM community" that I find increasingly distasteful; many of its abused and watered down terms have joined the bland parlance of the pervy underground singles circus. 


 
(thread hi-jack)
You have made this statement on various threads.  I don’t understand the concept that a less ‘serious’ (for lack of a better word) outlook regarding any given BDSM practice affects or dilutes how you live your life. 
Does a game of flag football in the back yard water down the NFL?


(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/12/2007 12:15:10 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Do you think that in this day in age there is a real and quantifiable fear of persecution and condemnation of BDSM and its aberrant sexual practices and relationships by American society as a whole?


Actually, I'm finding the opposite, that more people seem open to BDSM.  Then again, I'm relating to BDSM as the physical acts, not as part of a Dominant/submissive relationship.  I think people still have trouble with those.

quote:


If not society as a whole, do you think there is a "real" threat from certain "groups" or "sects" of people who have agendas in opposition to some of the values presented in BDSM, such as feminists and religious organizations?

I think those groups are no more a threat to BDSM behavior than they were to gay issues, than they were to any other "subculture" type group.  I think there is an effort to condem such behaviors, but I don't think the threat is a serious one.  The trend seems to be, as time pass on, society becomes more open.

quote:


Do you think someone can be open, honest, and non secretive regarding their own relationships and sexual practices without experiencing any form of consequence or retribution?


It depends.  If I were a "straight vanilla" and expressed my sexuality inappropriately (at work, etc.) I would experience consequence and retribution.  Anything outside the "norm" (whatever that is), is going to meet up with a higher risk of consequences.  I don't think it would be accurate to say they wouldn't meet up with "any form" of it. 

quote:


Have you personally had any experiences or incidents where consequences that affected your life from having your own personal lifestyle "exposed"?

Yes, I lost a job over it, about 5 years ago.

quote:


Do you think the barriers people construct between "BDSM" and "the Vanilla World" are done out of necessity and need for preservation of a successful life or are done more out of a way of coping with personal fear, insecurity, and uncomfortably with their own sexuality and relationships?

I think it is a combination of both.  For me it used to be personal fear and discomfort with who I was.  Now that I am quite comfortable with who I am, I just don't think it's many peoples' business what I do within my relationship, unless my Master or I choose to make it their business.  Most people I've spoken to in the "vanilla" world have stronger opinions about the fact that I submit than they do about any BDSM or sexual activity I experience.

quote:


Have your experiences with mentioning your unusual sexual and relationship tastes to people who have not labeled themselves as "kinky" been ones of fear, repulsion and aversion or curiousity and tolerance?


It depends what I share and who I talk to.  I don't like putting information on people if they are unable to handle it.  I have friends who are uncomfortable hearing about it, and I respect that, so I limit what I share with them.  Typically, those I share this part of my world with are people who love me, so they accept that in me whether they understand it or not. 

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/12/2007 4:23:52 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I'm one of those who need to keep this life I lead more private - especially at work. What I find interesting is the discovery that most of the people there think I am a prude.

Yep.

Daily, I have the younger people who are my colleagues show me pictures on their phones of laughing, tongue-wagging faces (wherein the tongue happens to be a penis) and buff men with big dicks and when I just smile and go back to what I was doing, they laugh again and say, "oh yea, I forgot J___ doesn't look at that stuff..." They talk about their sex lives and I don't add much. They make comments that would have a lawyer skilled in the prosecution of sexual harrassment cases salivating, and I excuse myself.

I do so because it's a place of work and frankly, I never know who will be walking through the door next. That person could be my boss or it could be someone for whom the conversation is extremely inappropriate. They call me a prude.

And when I am away from them, I laugh and laugh and laugh.

But here's the interesting part. When it comes to sex and not just looking at pictures, most of what they find titillating... has some resemblence to BDSM. They have broad generalizations that more often than not, are inaccurate, but nonetheless, the frequency in which they talk about them... makes me think that on some level, they are very curious.

lol.. But I'm a prude.

juliet

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/12/2007 4:42:50 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		As a feminist I have absolutely no problem with BDSM at all. Why is that? Because I've educated myself beyond the normal scope of most vanilla people. Not all feminists dislike BDSM but they are leery of it because none of us want to return to the dark ages when women were nothing more than chattel. So yes some of them are quite leery and with fundamentalism running amok in some cases you cannot blame them.

Religion is probably our biggest opponent as our sexual practices are viewed as deviant and going against the holy book. Dominant females are viewed as something to be shunned and homosexuals are to burned at the stake. Submissive females are considered alright as they fit right in with the religious folks idea of the "proper" woman. Religion is perhaps the best method developed for controlling the masses and you have to admit it does a damn good job of it.

Does this bother me? Yes and no. I am a naturally Dominant bi female. I am who I am as popeye has said and I refuse to change for anyone. But that doesn't mean I go around advertising that I am a Mistress. I have a feeling that if these fundamentalist folk keep multiplying that things for us are going to get worse. We maybe taking a trip back in time to the dark ages and while some people will be jumping for joy (until their BDSM side is exposed and then off to the stake with the rest of us) the rest of us will have to go underground and live in secret for fear of being outed and persecuted.

~Lashra


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RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/12/2007 5:04:53 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

  do we ever confuse the NFL with a game of flag football in the back yard? Nope. if we did that just wouldn't be right.
dissassociating from the fetish parade of today is understandable...  


But that isn’t my question. 
I want to know how the ‘what it is that I may do’ adulterates ‘what it is that you may do’. 
Back yard or Soldier Field, it is still football. 


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/12/2007 5:16:41 AM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

quote:

But most cannot- even now I hear people who have been in the scene for decades lie to their vanilla friends, people they CHOOSE to be in their lives. I feel so sad for them.


I think this is the crux of it.  I don't feel any negative judgement/consequence because I wouldn't consider someone a friend if I had to lie to them about something that was important to me.  Such people only exist at the margin of my awareness and are in a perpetual state of blurriness because I refuse to focus on them.

Yes exactly. We don't have an abundance of RL friends, but this is more due to our personalities rather than because we have anything to hide. Those who ARE friends know us and all our kinks very well. And they are all aberrants swingers, BDSMers, gay, lesbian or just out-there kinda folks. Our families know, we don't change our daily behavior around them tho we aren't having sex on the couch either!

Generally however, when I have spoken to not-quite-friends but good aquaintances (usually because they questioned something they saw or heard) I'll give them as much information as they require and their response has been curiosity & tolerance. Usually they'll come back at some point for more detailed information LOL and requests for suggested reading material.


_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/12/2007 7:20:34 AM   
SlaveSuru


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		 

I'm pretty open about my lifestyle.  I go to college and have had people ask about my collar.  I answer their questions and am polite informative and good- natured about it too.  I think we just need to make sure people understand us and try to clear up alot of the bad press and urban legends that have sprung up over the years.  My mother I believe knows about my lifestyle due to my collar and the fact she answered my phone one time and it was my Master and his ID on my phone says Master.  Yeah I think she knows,  she makes little jokes about it but not much else,  My brother is also a sub and I think she knows about him too. 

I don't see a reason it should be hidden,  if I like to be beaten and my partner indulges me it is consensual unlike the woman whose husband beats her because he needs to feel better about himself.  So why are most dominants treated like the people who abuse their spouse because they felt the need to feel better?  Why does society see them as just abusive people and not caring partners who indulge in their partner's (( and theirs)) fantasies?  Why?  Because most of us are too shy to step up and tell what really goes on,  I noticed we all whine about this happening but not many people attempt to educate the public at large.

  To date everyone I've had ask about my collar at the end of the conversation always expresses surprise at the fact that it is indeed a loving and caring relationship that is mutually pleasing to us both.  They had expected me to be an emoptionally-malfunctioning person, when in fact I am well adjusted and happy being where and what I am.  I've not had one person call us perverts either.  But then again maybe Dallas is a bit more liberal nowadays.

I think just as one person said earlier that if we step up and show the wolrd we are not emotionally malfunctioning perverts,  that we are normal everyday peple that like gays and lesbians we might be more easily acceptable.  I know that some people like the forbidden aspect of BDSM and that's fine, but if we never show the world we are normal decent people with homes, lives, jobs, and families,  How will they know differently?   They won't and if our "secret" is "found out"  we will be persecuted and ridiculed. 

Just my two cents,  but then again it is still early in the morning so it might not be that well written but I think it gets my thoughts across...


Suru

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Outcasts of Society - 10/12/2007 7:22:45 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, yes, but I don't think the problem is "society"--that's an undergraduate catch-all for everything that isn't right in the world.  The problem is that people fear what they don't know.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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