Is this what we want in America?

Is this what we want in America? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 12:30:38 PM)
150,000 FEDERAL WORKERS TO BE ID'ED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB37zb5aPS0 Bush sells rfid to insure mexicans can be looked up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82L3qU33CwY It seems to me that we already have a system in place to all this? As usual the gov is selling us a package that is sold as one thing and will be used as another. The syatem will go into place to "protect" us from mexico and then when the system is in place will be used to card us and invade our privacy. Any thoughts?

popeye1250 -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 2:08:15 PM)
Place the blame where it lies, with Bin Laden and al qeada not Bush. We can't even have al qeada do Butt Pyramids now because some idiots think they have "rights." Who said you have to "fight nice?" I'd run them over with bull dozers or tanks and film it. And of course we need to know about everyone who is in this country! You miss just "19" and look what can happen!

Real0ne -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 2:11:24 PM)
So you dont see that as a stepping stone to tracking us? They alkready have all my info in triplicate. All it takes is a call to the ss office to find out if a ssn is valid. So why the need for a national id? I am thinking for amero/nau infrastrusture setup possibly?

philosophy -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 2:13:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 We can't even have al qeada do Butt Pyramids now because some idiots think they have "rights." ...er.....they weren't AQ members being forced to do butt pyramids, those were Iraqi citizens. Once you start treating whole populations as terrorists then the war on terror is lost........

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 2:15:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne 150,000 FEDERAL WORKERS TO BE ID'ED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB37zb5aPS0 Bush sells rfid to insure mexicans can be looked up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82L3qU33CwY It seems to me that we already have a system in place to all this? As usual the gov is selling us a package that is sold as one thing and will be used as another. The syatem will go into place to "protect" us from mexico and then when the system is in place will be used to card us and invade our privacy. Any thoughts? Locking up Mexicans won't bring the good jobs back. Ending outsourcing will.

ChicagoSwitchMal -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 3:08:57 PM)
Just to point out Biometrics is not RFID. I might object to the RFID tracking of anyone, I'm not sure. I think RFID might be a viable solution to relieve the prison's from non violent offenders but that's not what this thread is about. I don't have a problem with guest workers or immigrants being required to produce a card that has biological information on it correlating the person holding the card to the person with permission to work. Frankly it could be as easy as a fingerprint but digitized. The right software, a credit card scanner, and a fingerprint reader would be all thats nessesary. Swipe the card, swipe the finger, if they match the person is allowed to work. it actually seems like a damn good idea to me actually. As long as the requirement went away when/if they became true citizens. I also dont see the problem with background check for employees of our shipping docks or making them carry ID's. Except for the fact that they want the employee to pay the $140. That's messed up.

cyberdude611 -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 5:34:48 PM)
Why is it such a difficult concept to understand that the people that come here without permission or overstay their visa is committing a crime? It is illegal! You cant just hop across any border you damn well please and then march in the streets to demand rights. You do that in any nation on this planet and you will be tossed out on your ass. We live in a world of borders and boundries. That's how different cultures get along. You have your property and I have my property. I have a right to defend my property and if you come onto my property without permision....wave your flag....and demand rights to stay in my property....you will be met with a gun in your face. If I was president, I'd send police to each of these immigrant rallies and if they can't prove they are here legally....throw them in a truck and ship them back to Mexico. If they come back, send them to prison. It's that simple. And any employer that knowingly hires an illegal alien will also be thrown in prison and the company will be fined severely. That's the only way this problem will be brought under control.

Cuffkinks -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 5:42:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 You cant just hop across any border you damn well please and then march in the streets to demand rights. You do that in any nation on this planet and you will be tossed out on your ass. You mean any "other" nation on this planet.

camille65 -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 5:47:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So you dont see that as a stepping stone to tracking us? <snip So why the need for a national id? I am thinking for amero/nau infrastrusture setup possibly? Yup, I do.

chellekitty -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 6:16:08 PM)
Melora Creager of Rasputina has some bizzare mini-rants on this subject on their live album "A Radical Recital".... "The government is going to instigate a new national identification policy, and it’s not the standard ID card, it's a little grain of rice with your name carved into it by some Mexican that is inserted under the flesh of your arm. And I think it’s such an exciting idea that I'm gonna be the first in line to get it. It's so cute-sounding." and later on "...and what about the right to bare arms? The government can't control our sleeve lengths. What do they want to see? The little grains of rice, embedded under there?"

Real0ne -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 7:22:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 If I was president, I'd send police to each of these immigrant rallies and if they can't prove they are here legally....throw them in a truck and ship them back to Mexico. If they come back, send them to prison. It's that simple. And any employer that knowingly hires an illegal alien will also be thrown in prison and the company will be fined severely. That's the only way this problem will be brought under control. The problem I see is that they want the rfid infrastructure to accomplish this when I do not belive they have shown justification that the old system is broken. They are ignoring methods we presently have and presenting it as non working to peddle the new system. The problem of course is that it starts out that way just like it did with taxation and sociaol security and what concerns me is the monster that I expect it to turn into up the road. How many people do you know that are ripping off social security? lots! Look at the tax mess. we have that started out so innocently and has grown into a hydra.

sundownhawk -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/9/2007 9:29:27 PM)
Sounds like the national ID debate. Most people already have a state ID, school ID or drivers license. Many jobs take fingerprints during a job application or hiring process. Odds are you are already in a database somewhere. A national system would make a lot of things a heck of a lot simpler. Not sure I would like the idea of RFID in that but I supose it would have its plus sides as well as its down sides.

Real0ne -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/10/2007 6:59:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sundownhawk Sounds like the national ID debate. Most people already have a state ID, school ID or drivers license. Many jobs take fingerprints during a job application or hiring process. Odds are you are already in a database somewhere. A national system would make a lot of things a heck of a lot simpler. Not sure I would like the idea of RFID in that but I supose it would have its plus sides as well as its down sides. well it leads to extremne manipulation because everything you do will be recorded and put into one humongous data base. Now that phone surveys are no longer allowed because marketing got so bad they will be able to get any kind of data they want from this database and simply because it is so handy. Everywhere you go will be logged into a computer, every transaction etc etc at the fingertips of the gov. I guess tha question I ask is how will it feel to sleep with the fbi? They had the phone taps supposedly for terrorists and how many law suits are there now for them illegally tapping people? Thats only the ones who got caught!!! Imagine this, you are a successful figure and you buy a rent a hooker one nite and one peek in the database and anyone who has connections can use it against you, get you fired from your job etc. Now they can still get it but it is very difficult with this database I suspect people will discover they had more to hide than they ever imagined. Err yah mom i like to get my ass whipped and bark like a dog. I

thompsonx -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/10/2007 7:21:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Why is it such a difficult concept to understand that the people that come here without permission or overstay their visa is committing a crime? It is illegal! You cant just hop across any border you damn well please and then march in the streets to demand rights. You do that in any nation on this planet and you will be tossed out on your ass. We live in a world of borders and boundries. That's how different cultures get along. You have your property and I have my property. I have a right to defend my property and if you come onto my property without permision....wave your flag....and demand rights to stay in my property....you will be met with a gun in your face. If I was president, I'd send police to each of these immigrant rallies and if they can't prove they are here legally....throw them in a truck and ship them back to Mexico. If they come back, send them to prison. It's that simple. And any employer that knowingly hires an illegal alien will also be thrown in prison and the company will be fined severely. That's the only way this problem will be brought under control. cyberdude: If you were stopped in the street by the authorities and told to prove you were an American citizen. How would you accomplish this task? How would you prove that you were an American citizen? Your drivers license wont do it. A birth certificate does not have anything on it except perhaps a very small foot print. Even a passport wont do it since the passport uses your birth certificate as proof of citizenship. Anyone can get a copy of a birth certificate and use it to get a passport in that name. thompson

luckydog1 -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/11/2007 12:59:56 AM)
Not a word about RFID in this either of these clips, why are you pretending otherwise? Why do you have to make stuff up to convine us of how bad it is. Or do you just not understand the difference between RFID and Biometrics?

luckydog1 -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/11/2007 1:08:17 AM)
thompson, Birth certificates have more info than a footprint. It has the time and location of your birth, your name, and your SSN. IF you were born in the US you are a citizen. With corroberating documents (other proof of who you are, like a drivers liscence with name and SSN)) you can get a passport which is indeed a legal indicator of citizenship. In the hypothetical proposed, the officer takes your drivers liscence, and calls it in/types into computer, to compare with a database. Not really a problem. Having a biometric database attached would give another level of security to the system. example the card has info on what the person looks like, in both text and biometrics. The persons face could be scanned and compared to the data both on the card and in the national database.

thompsonx -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/11/2007 5:56:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 thompson, Birth certificates have more info than a footprint. It has the time and location of your birth, your name, and your SSN. Birth certificates do not have your SSN on them. You are not even required to have a SSN. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/ssn.htm IF you were born in the US you are a citizen. With corroberating documents (other proof of who you are, like a drivers liscence with name and SSN)) you can get a passport which is indeed a legal indicator of citizenship. The only document you need to supply to get a passport is a birth certificate. My social security card says on the front in big letters "not to be used for identification". In the hypothetical proposed, the officer takes your drivers liscence, and calls it in/types into computer, to compare with a database. Not really a problem. Where in that data base does it state your nationality? How did they arrive at it? Stop a cop and ask him to run your driver's license and look at the readout. It will not show your citizenship, so yes it is a problem. Having a biometric database attached would give another level of security to the system. example the card has info on what the person looks like, in both text and biometrics. The persons face could be scanned and compared to the data both on the card and in the national database. This may or may not come to pass. In todays world how does a U.S. citizen prove they are in fact a citizen?

joanus -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/11/2007 7:22:51 AM)
The blind Stupidity on this thread makes my eyes want to bleed. Some of you crazy rednecks need to be tracked so you'll stay out of trouble. As for this being the fault of any one group in the Middle East, all I have to say is that while in Iraq the only terrorists I saw where wearing US uniforms. I seriously doubt mass Genoside and "freedom" are the same thing. Now for the rest of you paranoid people I suggest cutting back on the weed.

pahunkboy -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/11/2007 9:16:58 AM)
rfids in kids so they arent kidnapped. a hammer can be used to build a house or destroy a house.

luckydog1 -> RE: Is this what we want in America? (10/11/2007 11:18:30 AM)
Ol thompson, now I remeber why you so seldom give evidence for your claims. that page is a hoot. I love the part' "Queen Elizabeth controls and has amended U.S. Social Security Queen Elizabeth controls and has amended U.S. Social Security THE ULTIMATE DELUSION Subject: THE ULTIMATE DELUSION Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:40:27 EDT From: To the people, I found http://www.apfn.org/apfn/queen.htm " People who take that sort of page seriously do need to be chipped and monitored.

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