Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Existence without Labels?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Existence without Labels? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 3:59:24 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I know it can; I witness a relationship daily that began 20 years ago and at the time they did not know about master and slave in the context of BDSM.  When they finally learned about BDSM many years later, they used the label of master and slave because it fit how their relationship was already structured.  They did not restructure their relationship to fit the label.  From the very beginning she did what she was told and he had all the authority in the relationship.

I also think that labels are useful as a starting point in understanding each other and who we are.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 4:00:14 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Certainly as long as there is understanding of what it is you seek which is hard to do if you've never heard of it before, and clear communication with your partner about it.

But for most of us, before we heard the label we chose partners wrongly seeking something that we didn't know what it was, and didn't know what we were. The labels bring you to a Eureka moment faster and helps you find someone who has also already had their Eureka moment.

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 4:05:19 AM   
phoenixinchains


Posts: 2534
Joined: 4/5/2007
From: i live here
Status: offline


hmm, well, relationships can start without knowing the lables, but in our time( the age of communication) the terms will be discovered if searched for, imho- phoenix



(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 4:47:20 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		wonders how to get a download from Archer's brain to find out all the stuff he knows...

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 4:57:08 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

How many people think that two individuals can get together and have a fulfilling and happy relationship based on power exchange and kink without ever once knowing the defintion of Master, Dom, Top, Bottom, Slave, and Submissive?


Between me and my Master, we have our labels but hell if I know their definitions.  I've asked.  He didn't really answer.  The closest he's come is to say "a slave has no rights" but thats not a definition and doesn't give the word any determinate content. 

So long as we know our positions relative to each other, and so long as we continue to pass power and authority between us, it works well enough. 

Having the labels helps me keep things sorted even if I don't have a real concrete idea of what they mean.  If I'm wondering why about something he says or does, the first answer is usually, "He's the Master."  Alot of times, thats enough to quiet my questions.


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 4:59:32 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not a mime, despite the fact that in person I can express myself quite wonderfully without words.  Communication sure as hell helps to get the point across, though. Words, or rather specific words and the concepts they expound upon, can be called labels if you like, but for me they are simply tools of expression and communication.  The fact that slave, submisive, Master, Dominant, slouch, sluggard, troll, or any other descriptive word means something diffferent to others, doesn't mean the tool of expression has no value.  It simply means the expectation is on me to convey what those words mean to ME in a clear and concise manner - or to seek clarification and understanding for myself until I can do so. 

This is a text based medium.  Yes, I know. DUH.  Nothing like pointing out the obvious here.  Yes, I know as well that people live this life outside of pixels and pretense.  Again, yes.  Duh.  But, considering that we are all communicating here (well most of us are) using words  I think that it is sort of counter-productive to devalue the very tools of expression we use.  Or, conversely to OVER value them.  I could probably argue for hours on the simple concept of "insert concept here", and be pretty confident I wasn't alone in the ability to do so.  Considering all the strings currently in existence here and elsewhere doing just that.  So far as I can see, what we have is more or less a base direction by which to set our compass, but exploring the depths and promise of those concepts resides within each of us.

I don't think it is the "label" that individuals despise so much, as they despise the attempts of others to place a foregin or absolute concept of what that label is upon them. 

Why are we so surprised that a single word, any single word, does not always nor adequately convey the truth of a complex personal dynamic? 

Oh man, I am going back to bed.  My head hurts.  I sure hope I don't get back up and scratch my head when I reread this, wondering what in the world I was thinking.

C

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 10/9/2007 5:05:46 AM >

(in reply to phoenixinchains)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 5:05:06 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
I could probably argue for hours on the simple concept of "insert concept here", and be pretty confident I wasn't alone in the ability to do so. 


hehe...i could give you a really hard one like the concept of "being" that one sounds simple...right...wrong....omg....how about we start off with i dunno..."grapes"...*giggles evilly*


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 5:06:56 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Brat.  (start with that one! hehe)

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 5:13:32 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		start with the concept of brat?  well...there are people like me who do bratty behavior like post #27 in this thread...and then there are people who use the label brat and ruin it for people like me because they are just trying to excuse their rude, disrespectful behavior because they are "oh so cute.." *big fucking eyeroll*

but i am not totally thread-jacking, so i won't go any further on the topic, right here, right now


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 6:01:22 AM   
themischievous1


Posts: 151
Joined: 4/3/2005
From: San Antonio, Texas
Status: offline 		Labeling and defining to death are my pet peeves on CM and other alternative personal sites. I find the labels to be restrictive, demanding, intrusive, and basically just stupid. The labels don't allow room for growth, first of all. Second of all, they aren't going to fit indefinitely and when they no longer do, it can cause confusion. There is no wiggle room within the labeled, stereotypical box. Within each individual's persona and manner of being are an abundance of dominant and submissive characteristics, traits, and desires. Let those flourish! Instead, we have to box each person up into a neat little package and define what and who they are and they damn well better live up to our expectations of the label or else.

We stifle and kill creativity, spontaneity, and the urge to explore with our incessant labeling and defining. Enough already! Just let me be and find out as I go along what all I can encompass. Who can know?

Hell, even I don't know yet! Just when I think I do, it changes. Why? Because I change as I grow older and so will you--labeling doesn't take this into account. It's a waste of time and far too simplistic and convenient to be taken seriously. 

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 6:03:02 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
How many people think that two individuals can get together and have a fulfilling and happy relationship based on power exchange and kink without ever once knowing the defintion of Master, Dom, Top, Bottom, Slave, and Submissive?




Don't see why not. I didn't become a submissive when I learned the term. I'm quite sure that there are plenty of couples out there with an unspeaken and unoffical d/s dynamic because that is simply the way that works for them.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 6:10:27 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Of course.  As a matter of fact, I think it is a wonderful idea because when you get down to it in my opinion, our lifestyle is about concent. 
When you put titles and demands on everything, it adds uneeded stress to a relationship and takes away from the fun part of it.  I consider this to be fun. I have been engaged to my slave for three years, and we have had our challenges.  The way we are working this now is better for both of us I think.   

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 10:15:34 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Your name is a label. Your born with labels so live with it.

(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 1:22:20 PM   
murmur


Posts: 394
Joined: 9/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

i do not believe it is possible to exist in general without labels; labels in the form of basic stereotyping are a fundamental cognitive process (primarily for organization), and labels for the purpose of communicating certain concepts to one another are a fundamental function of language.

i do believe it is possible to have a relationship that fits within the area of bdsm without ever knowing the definition of any of the words you listed, however. there are plenty of people in this world, i imagine, who live kinky, "power-exchange" relationships without ever labeling themselves as such or thinking of themselves in that way. heck, one of the amusing things for me about people who get caught up on master vs. dominant and submissive vs. slave is the fact that we have a very fulfilled relationship without needing to define them as one specific thing and stick to that. very rarely (like one time) have we ever even had a discussion about how we self-identify in that area and what that means for us, and even then, it was more related to his expectations of me and other areas of the relationship than simply an intellectual discussion on labeling. the fact is, i don't think most people in relationships actually feel the need to talk to death this kind of crap with their significant others...whether or not they DO actually know the definitions. it is more than possible to have a fulfilled relationship without bringing any of those concepts into the mix :)

respectfully,
annabelle.



what she said :)

What is sad though, is people who feel lost until they can put labels on themselves.
Could we call them insecure people or is that an too much of a label put on them?

_____________________________

Become who you are. - Socrate

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 3:25:58 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

the fact is, i don't think most people in relationships actually feel the need to talk to death this kind of crap with their significant others...whether or not they DO actually know the definitions. it is more than possible to have a fulfilled relationship without bringing any of those concepts into the mix :)

respectfully,
annabelle.



And this was the real point behind the question.

You get a cookie!

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 6:34:34 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Yep,I will go with that, and have said as much in my profile.Labels to me are irrelevant,it is what happens within a relationship.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/9/2007 7:35:55 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
How many people think that two individuals can get together and have a fulfilling and happy relationship based on power exchange and kink without ever once knowing the defintion of Master, Dom, Top, Bottom, Slave, and Submissive?


i do.  i was a very happy submissive to my Dominant husband for many years, without ever hearing or using those labels, although i did know what the dictionary definitions of those two words are.  But, when i became single and wanted to find another Dominant man to enter into a relationship with, it sure did help being able to read the personal ads in the newspaper and know that Dom was the keyword i was looking for.  It was just as important as knowing what the label "SWM" meant, especially when i was wearing the label of "SWF" and i was ISO one. 
 
Labels are helpful in making a search for another person easier but, actually finding someone to have a relationship with doesn't end with the label.  It's just a handy tool to help thin out the potential prospects.  If a man labeled himself as a MWM, i would pass him by, just as i would if he labeled himself a submissive.  Those aren't the types of men i was interested in meeting so, they helped me to not waste their time or mine.
 
i can love and be loved, without knowing a definition for love.  But, i know it when i feel it.  i also know the feeling of being Dominated and Owned and i don't need to know the definition of those words.  i know what they mean to me and my meaning is going to be very different from what they mean to most other people. 
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David (and, i know just what that means, to me)

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Existence without Labels? - 10/10/2007 4:20:59 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

How many people think that two individuals can get together and have a fulfilling and happy relationship based on power exchange and kink without ever once knowing the defintion of Master, Dom, Top, Bottom, Slave, and Submissive?


Labels and definitions are both a curse and a blessing.
for me they are a curse when they are applied to me  or I am expected to aplly them to someone else and then systematically adhere to a code orset of undefineable qualities to that label. It just becomes a limt in itself outside of which, if we allow ourselves to internlise the label, we then become afraid to move.
A person is never solely a submissive: they are also lets say male or female, a parent or not, or they a a certain height or weight or then again they have an Iq or an emotional intelligence or not, they are a slave type or not and so on and so on....but what anothe rperson is surely is an individual?
Anyone reading this from within a Groean lifestyle might want to argue nad I once wandered into that discussion forum and was asked did I really know where I was?
But labels make us feel safe and labels help to identify us, and, just as with any journey...labels keeps us and outr baggage together...that can be a good thing or a bad thing especially when we out grow our label.
I dislike the label bisexual....as there is asexual or transexual just for statrters and I sincerely wish collarme had the term pansexual as a choice...there is asexual btw also so I do know ok?.....just  think its a balance...
also reflecting that I also was submissive and on my knees long before I knew what label I had....just like I WAS HALF STARVING BEFORE i KNEW i WAS ANOREXIC.......

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 38
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Existence without Labels? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.156