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Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 3:33:24 PM   
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Status: offline 		LONDON - Making an unusual campaign swing outside his own country, Rudolph W. Giuliani said Wednesday that he would like to see a broad expansion of the NATO alliance, including an invitation to Israel, and that the United States would use military force if necessary to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

Mr. Giuliani, long a supporter of Israel, acknowledged that pushing its membership in NATO might be viewed as provocative. Still, he said, he thinks it only natural, since the Israelis would be “willing to help us in the effort against terrorism.”

Any attempt to include Israel in the alliance, an idea discussed within past American administrations, would most likely face insurmountable barriers, however, given that all NATO member states would first have to sign off.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20882370

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 3:38:09 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		A bizarre idea, it was bad enough letting Israel into the Eurovision song contest. It is also tantamount to taking sides in the middle east in a way that Europe usually tries to avoid.
Oh, and there is no actual war on terrorism, just an American war against the terrorists it isn't actively funding right now.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 3:54:21 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yeah, I imagine it's mainly Giuliani pandering to Jewish voters, more than anything. I can't see the Europeans voting for the idea.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 3:58:47 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		Surely those jewish voters can see through it though? Is he really that thick that he thinks it'll buy him a vote?

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 4:00:38 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Being dependent on oil from the middle east, it wouldn`t be in anyones interest.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 4:17:27 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

Surely those jewish voters can see through it though? Is he really that thick that he thinks it'll buy him a vote?


Well, he's a politician

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 4:18:30 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		Ahhhh, perenially optimistic........

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 4:22:17 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

Ahhhh, perenially optimistic........


Yes, and that probably leads him into believing he could get it done.
 
I think this has the same chance of flying as the seccession talk in the other thread.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 4:27:43 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		Damn, 'cos i could just see California joining NATO........

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 4:37:06 PM   
firmobeisance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

Surely those jewish voters can see through it though?
Surely even you can see the value in the statement. Of course the voters to whom the gesture is directed will see it as pandering, that fact is immaterial. What they will react to is the fact that the big famous Rudy G was willing to stand up on a soapbox for them. It is almost better that it has no chance of happening, for that adds to the futility and poignancy of the statement, something he likely hopes they will well sympathize with.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 5:26:30 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

Damn, 'cos i could just see California joining NATO........


Naw, Cali would probably join a commune, not NATO........

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 8:42:01 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Israel should have been in NATO from 1948 on.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 11:38:12 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

(fast)

Israel should have been in NATO from 1948 on.


Why? NATO was supposed to be a defensive alliance, nothing else.

NATO does not exist to further US foreign policy, it existed to counter the USSR on behalf of all its members. The creation of Israel was irrelevent to that and Israel has remained irrelevent to the aims of NATO. In fact an Israel that has consistently broke international law and has been guilty of human rights violations for the past forty years is positively the antithesis of what NATO is supposed to be about.

Don't forget that the Israeli leadership were terrorists and were commiting terrorist acts against one of the founding members of NATO up until 1948.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/3/2007 11:43:29 PM >

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/3/2007 11:43:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		I am a conservative (a real one) and I do not think that federal porkfucks should make war without our soverign governments going ok.  Fuck isreal and any other entanglements.......minnesota votes no. shove it up your own ass. Get your own troops. Nor should they make covenants on behalf of our states.  This should be voted.


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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/4/2007 12:05:39 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yeah, I imagine it's mainly Giuliani pandering to Jewish voters, more than anything. I can't see the Europeans voting for the idea.


Personally, I can see Europeans being completely apathetic to the idea. Most people I know don't have the first clue what NATO is, nor would they be interested if you sat them down and tried to explain it to them. Israel in NATO or Israel outside of NATO; it's well outside of my sphere of interest.

If it was left to me, I'd scrap the army, and Englishmen would use their taxes to support English schools and hospitals, instead of supporting a foreign army that blows up other peoples' schools and hospitals. In terms of defence, it's been a long time since I was hit in the face by an Iranian nuke; the last time I was taken apart by a weapon, it was my sister when she stabbed me in the leg with a fork after I called her a whore: I was only 11 so you'll understand, but I've learned to deal with that threat through my own diplomacy. Apart from that, it's been plain sailing. Dissolve the British Army, and use the money elsewhere.

Speaking of Jewish voters, there is a growing and vociferous band here (they tend to be the more liberal members of the Jewish community i.e. actors, comedians, journalists etc) who are utterly pissed off with the Israeli government, and want the bulldozing of Palestinian land and theft of their homes to stop. Is there anything similar in the United States? Is it in his interests to be pro-Israeli government?

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/4/2007 12:08:21 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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Status: offline 		I honestly don't know why Republicans pander to Jewish people.  Jewish people for the most part always vote for democrats. 

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/4/2007 12:16:59 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

vote
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am a conservative (a real one) and I do not think that federal porkfucks should make war without our soverign governments going ok.  Fuck isreal and any other entanglements.......minnesota votes no. shove it up your own ass. Get your own troops. Nor should they make covenants on behalf of our states.  This should be voted.


Rush Limbaugh (the conservative)



nor should we be giving them 10 fucking billion free bucks per year!!!





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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/4/2007 1:26:40 AM   
firmobeisance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


Speaking of Jewish voters, there is a growing and vociferous band here (they tend to be the more liberal members of the Jewish community i.e. actors, comedians, journalists etc) who are utterly pissed off with the Israeli government, and want the bulldozing of Palestinian land and theft of their homes to stop. Is there anything similar in the United States? Is it in his interests to be pro-Israeli government?
In my part of Oregon USA, the "liberal" public media has started to describe the activities of the movement. There was a segment on Palestinian kids who had to pass a check point to get to school and how the supervising adult kept a list of sympathetic Israeli mothers, one of whom they called who then called an IDF officer to request the kids be allowed to clear the check point.

Remember, Rudy is pandering votes, he is not really serious about the NATO thing. It will do him little harm to be cast as an "Israelist" against the liberals, they aren't the ones who would vote for him. Besides, the movement has been described as a "vociferous band," which hardly sounds like a majority.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/4/2007 3:02:39 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yeah, I imagine it's mainly Giuliani pandering to Jewish voters, more than anything. I can't see the Europeans voting for the idea.


Speaking of Jewish voters, there is a growing and vociferous band here (they tend to be the more liberal members of the Jewish community i.e. actors, comedians, journalists etc) who are utterly pissed off with the Israeli government, and want the bulldozing of Palestinian land and theft of their homes to stop. Is there anything similar in the United States? Is it in his interests to be pro-Israeli government?


There are some, but primarily, being more pro-Israeli would give him the most bang for the buck. Same as being anti-Castro, with the Cuban vote in Florida.

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RE: Giuliani urges Israel to join NATO - 10/4/2007 3:08:52 AM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		Well he also said that Australia and India should join NATO as well. So I dont think Jewish voters is his target. I think he is trying to show that when he's president he will try to work with the world and form a large alliance against islamic terrorism.

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