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Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 3:20:02 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Both Hillary and Obama said that that the goal is to remove troops by 2013 but said "it depends on the circumstances..."
Edwards said she will draw down 50,000 to 70,000 troops but would redeploy them back into Iraq if civil war or genocide occurs.

This is what they said last night during the Democratic debate...

So you guys.... Like I've been saying on here for so long.... the Democrats are NOT going to end this war. The only way this war will end is if a 3rd party or an independant candidate wins.

So if you want to keep thinking that the Democratic party is the anti-Bush....keep dreaming. Both parties are in the same bed with the same corporations.
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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 3:25:27 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Somehow I am in no way surprised

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 4:07:18 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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Status: offline 		Hey Liberals..

"Ever felt like you've been cheated?"

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 4:47:25 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Well....we sure have ourselves a mess. I was very much against going there, but what the hell can we do now? I hate to throw away 3,000 lives for nothing but to me the Iraqi’s are not worth one more. I can understand not wanting to commit to a full pullout...now... today... soon. But I sure can see saying will leave by a certain date like it or not…. so be ready...Then leave telling them if we have to come back we will not worry if a antiaircraft gun is next to a hospital. I would not waste one more life on people that don't want our help or our type of government.

Trying to classify the way people feel about the war by political affiliation is foolishness.
I happen to be Democratic but have given my country 4 years of my life in service. I have many friends with different views on the war and they are democratic, republican and independent.

I think most can agree Bush has screwed up… not because he is republican but because he just was and is a screw up.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/27/2007 5:08:07 PM >

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 4:51:20 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Trying to classify the way people feel about the war by political affiliation is foolishness.


Thank you for that, and thanks for your service to our country.

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 4:51:49 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		But his screw ups will be 'neccesary for the defense of the Homeland' when perpetuated by the next administration.

This war isn't going  away after the election, and neither is the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretaps, etc. no matter which party wins.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 5:07:03 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
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Status: offline 		I dont think the libs have been "cheated." I think they just for some reason think there are two polar opposite political parties. And they think that the person that is running against the GOP is against everything about the GOP. Politics does not work that way. Many times the issues between the parties become intertwined. On the very basic level, both parties have very similar foreign policies. Our foreign policy hasn't changed much at all since World War II yet we have had a mix of Democrat and Republican presidents. The only real differences in on certain domestic issues such as taxes, healthcare, and things like abortion and stell-cell. Other than that both parties really are not all that different.

None of the top-tier candidates have ever committed to pulling out of Iraq. Now they may have said certain things that would cause people to elude to that conclusion. But that's politician-ese. They need those anti-war votes even though they don't really agree with those anti-war people.

Hillary is also a political chameleon. Just like Bill. She will say anything to get your vote because she wants to be in power that bad. But she is not going to pull troops out of Iraq.

Same thing happened back with Vietnam if you remember. It was President Eisenhower (a Republican) who first got the US involved in Vietnam. JFK was the next president and within his first 100 days....he sent 30,000 combat troops to Vietnam. Now the war became unpopular. So when LBJ ran in 1964 he promised that he will pull the United States out of Vietnam. He was elected and he broke that promise...not only did he not pull out troops...he sent more in and dropped an enormous amount of bombs...in fact LBJ dropped more bombs than any US president in history.

The reason the Dems will not pull out of Iraq is because they know we can't pull out. If we pull out, Iran will go in and that will send our economy into depression because crude oil will go well above $100, Like it or not, we are stuck there until the political and cultural disputes become stable.

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 5:25:11 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Cyberdude I agree with you on most of what you said but don’t get me started on oil. If our politicians of all parties had not been bought off by big oil since the 70’s we would have viable alternative fuels by now. Then we would see if the idiots of the Middle East and Venezuela could figure a way to eat oil.

Hmmm I can see it now…Hurricane forming near Africa… the price of corn in the Middle East just went up to $70 bushel.

Darn a corn silo just burned down in Iowa…corn $98 a bushel

Man sure wish we had more farmers… we used to have plenty but they all went to work at the filling stations….corn $125 bushel.

Darn it again new clean air standards controlling cow farts on farms just increased operating costs…corn $200 a bushel.
Butch

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 5:34:35 PM   
Real0ne


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Just a lot of people have not figured out yet the we really do have a one party government with 2 faces  :)



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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 6:02:21 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Hey Liberals..

"Ever felt like you've been cheated?"


Considering that you`re  grandstanding  on the dead bodies of our soldiers,that`s a pretty lame question.

There was a feeling of being cheated when bush stole the election in 2000.Is that what you meant?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/27/2007 6:17:12 PM >

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 6:08:14 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		Whether or not the Democratic heads agree with the invasion, only an idiot would order a pull out now.  Not something I know if they'll really advertise since, realistically, they have the angry vote* right now.  They'd risk losing parts of it by announcing conclusions similar to the current state of things, so they're just going to have to downplay it.

*The votes of people who are just pissed off at government and want a change.

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 7:13:05 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Well the Democrats ran in the last election on a platform of getting us out of Iraq. They better "get it up!"
If enough people start e-mailing, faxing, phoning and writing to their congressmen and senators and tell them not to fund this nonsense it'll stop.
And Iran will go into Iraq if we leave? Good fuckin luck to them! lol! I hope they do the pricks!
The way you get out is you just leave and hand over the keys to the new govt. Some say; "They're not "ready" yet."
Clue up, they'll never be "ready" as long as we're there! Why should they be?
Would you do things if someone else was there to do things for you?
Our govt had better get off the fence and get us out, as a TAXPAYER I'm simply not going to pay for anymore of this "Nation Building" crap while bridges collapse in my country!!!
If I have to I'll just deduct the federal taxes everytime I gas up and tell the clerk I'm not paying them. Fuck em, let them arrest me!
"Here's my address, send the cops by to collect that $4 in federal taxes!"
They get 10 or 20 thousand people doing that and they're going to have some big problems.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/27/2007 7:16:51 PM >

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 7:21:48 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		They must be awfully trusting where you live. We have to pay before we can pump gas here.

There was even a Chevron here that was named "Gas-N-Dash"

But it went out of business...

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 8:54:31 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well the Democrats ran in the last election on a platform of getting us out of Iraq. They better "get it up!"
If enough people start e-mailing, faxing, phoning and writing to their congressmen and senators and tell them not to fund this nonsense it'll stop.



yeh they will in another 8 years!!!  LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 9:39:15 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well the Democrats ran in the last election on a platform of getting us out of Iraq. They better "get it up!"
If enough people start e-mailing, faxing, phoning and writing to their congressmen and senators and tell them not to fund this nonsense it'll stop.
And Iran will go into Iraq if we leave? Good fuckin luck to them! lol! I hope they do the pricks!
The way you get out is you just leave and hand over the keys to the new govt. Some say; "They're not "ready" yet."
Clue up, they'll never be "ready" as long as we're there! Why should they be?
Would you do things if someone else was there to do things for you?
Our govt had better get off the fence and get us out, as a TAXPAYER I'm simply not going to pay for anymore of this "Nation Building" crap while bridges collapse in my country!!!
If I have to I'll just deduct the federal taxes everytime I gas up and tell the clerk I'm not paying them. Fuck em, let them arrest me!
"Here's my address, send the cops by to collect that $4 in federal taxes!"
They get 10 or 20 thousand people doing that and they're going to have some big problems.


Iran is Shia just like 60% of Iraq. Ahmadinejad has already said when the US leaves Iran will fill the power vacuum. All the foreign fighters in Iraq and Al-Queda will then move back to Afghanistan and try to push the US out of there. Once the US is out of Afghanistan, Al-Queda will try to overthrow Mushareff. If that happeds, Al-Queda becomes a nuclear power. And they will use those nukes. No question about it.

And I can't tell you the mess that would take place if the US pulls out. Iran is just part of it. If the Kurds declare independance (which is what they want to do right now) Turkey has said they will invade. The Sunis are going to get into the middle of it all and end up slaughtered. We are talking a major genocide here.

So agree with the war or not....we created a mess over there. And now we just have to find a way to clean it up before it becomes an even bigger mess. The key is to stablize Iraq. Once that is done we can fuel pro-democracy forces in Iran and get rid of them. Then things should start to go our way in that region.

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 9:41:40 PM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline 		Maybe we could convince them we've just been a pawn of the Chinese all this time, and turn them against each other?

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 10:01:28 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Cyberdude, and you think we should stay in that shitstorm?
Pull out and if the scenario unfolds like you say use Nuclear weapons first.
It's real simple, if the Iraqis want a country they're going to have to do the work.
And if they don't someone like Iran will take it over.
Their choice.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/27/2007 10:24:56 PM >

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 10:27:57 PM   
MasterKalif


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Status: offline 		Popeye, I think the best most safe bet now, would be to install a pro-Western dictator, maybe someone who is in the Iraqi army with american education, meaning send him over to Fort Benning, etc, and have him head an elite paratroppers type unit and help him take over the country...it will be imperfect and a short cry of western style democracy, but at least all the chaos and bs will be over, no Iran influence, and eventually it could lead to a more open democratic regime.

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 10:33:01 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		Iran isn't going to invade Iraq, they don't need to.  They will do the same thing the US does, set up a semi autonomous government that answers to them.  It was innevitable, that is why Bush's father let Saddam massacre the Shia when they took a Bush's word at face value. 

quote:

Once that is done we can fuel pro-democracy forces in Iran and get rid of them.


Gee, you channeling Reagan?  Idiots keep thinking "pro-democracy" means the same as US friendly.  What religion do you think Hammas is?  You remember Hammas, they were elected by "pro-democracy" forces in Palestine...

Must suck when the real world doesn't act like a rambo cartoon.

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RE: Dems will not end war if they win the White House - 9/27/2007 10:36:21 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		wow,

World stopping events, I actually agree with you...ugly truth but that is the only way out of this mess.  Should have simply put one of Saddam's kids in power, called him the "good one" and left it at that.  Would have saved a few hundred billions dollars, thousand of American troops, tens of thousands of crippled troops, and America's role as "good guy".

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