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kiyari -> Libertines (9/26/2007 2:57:48 AM)
BDSM is not exclusively about 'power exchange' Granted, amongst those who participate in Forums, D/s and M/s seem to reign paramount. I am presuming because, those who have achieved their symbiotic interconnexion, are the ones who bother with forums postings. Apologies to Ron and similar 'ilk' (LOL so spank me)

slavegirljoy -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 5:50:07 AM)
Well, when one is holding the whip and standing over the other, who is naked and "sitting still", just as the one with the whip said, and is waiting for the next strike and not challenging the one with the whip, i call that an exchange of power. One is handed the power over the other. It's mutually decided that one will be in charge and the other will obey. At least, that's the way it has always been for me, in my BDSM experiences, even way back in 1977, when i first started in this, long before these forums existed. i don't know a BDSM, that doesn't include some power exchange, even if temporarily. This is just my perspective, based on my experiences. No doubt, others have different experiences and different perspectives. But, if it's not about power, then what is it about? slave joy Owned property of Master David quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari BDSM is not exclusively about 'power exchange' Granted, amongst those who participate in Forums, D/s and M/s seem to reign paramount. I am presuming because, those who have achieved their symbiotic interconnexion, are the ones who bother with forums postings. Apologies to Ron and similar 'ilk' (LOL so spank me)

toservez -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 7:03:46 AM)
In regards to the OP, not sure what you are wanting to communicate with this post. Of course BDSM is not all about power exchange. Many people do or just do things we describe as BDSM for enjoyment. BDSM in terms in a relationship described as D/s or M/s can be kink fun and/or about power exchange. How the topics are put on the board people are going to reply based on their own perspectives and experiences. For some it will not be power exchange but about the pure physical enjoyment and some will write about how BDSM is implemented in their power exchange relationship. Personally I see all types of answers when topics are kink specific and obviously when discussing relationships BDSM is going to be referred to as an accessory. I just think if you are looking for more people to share personal stories about individual acts you are going to be disappointed as most of us are not going to share such intimate detail for whatever reason but certainly not to give readers wanking material is one of them.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 7:09:17 AM)
I am sorry I am a Conservative perv total republican yep.

breatheasone -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 7:18:29 AM)
I have to agree with Joy...how is BDSM not a power exchange?.... somebody is a top...and somebody is a bottom... weather you indentify as Master/slave, Dom/sub.... Top/ bottom, whatever...there IS a power exchange. Even if its just for a scene...or if its just in the bedroom.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 7:29:52 AM)
this post is hard to understand, maybe aileen will come in and decipher it for me. since she is not here i will take a stab at it. you sound like you are not reading the kind of content you would enjoy most. i am assuming that that is the tech side of things... tools toys and uses there of? there is a section for that actually. i looked up libertines: One who acts without moral restraint; a dissolute person. One who defies established religious precepts; a freethinker. it did not give me any netter of a clue what you are trying to get at....please come back and explain?

OsideGirl -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 7:32:59 AM)
I don't believe that BDSM (bondage/descipline/sado-masochism) and D/s (dominance and submission) are the same thing. I know people in D/s that never engage in BDSM and I know a masochist that will never be submissive. I think in a very minimal way those who engage in BDSM without the D/s have an exchange of power. Someone has agreed to give and someone has agreed to receive. Personally, I don't really view that as power exchange. For me the power exchange is more about giving up my personal power rather than agreeing to kinky play for sexual reasons.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 8:17:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl For me the power exchange is more about giving up my personal power rather than agreeing to kinky play for sexual reasons. i guess because i'm someone who has never done "scenes", for me, BDSM is always about power exchange. And, every time i have given up my personal power to another, it has included the right to tell me to that i will engage in kinky play for sexual reasons, with that person or anyone else they choose. i don't separate what areas of my life can be ruled over and what areas can't be. When i hand over the keys to running my life to someone, it's an all-encompassing power exchange. Of course, there are plenty of people who have a power-dynamic relationship, that doesn't include kinky sex or any form of B&D or S&M. That's not BDSM, to me. And, there are plenty of people, who enjoy kinky sex, without being in a D/s relationship. That's not BDSM, to me. That's just 'vanilla with a twist'. The OPs profile states that she is a 'sensual switch' who is 'Kinky Vanilla' and she doesn't "understand D/s" and looks at it as a "Superior/inferior dynamic". So, to me, what she's into has nothing to do with BDSM, in the sense that i have always experienced it, and is nothing more than a vanilla lifestyle with kinky sex. Good enough but, not what i consider to have anything to do with BDSM. Anyone can have kinky sex. Lots of vanilla people have kinky sex. That doesn't make it BDSM. If it is, it's so watered-down, it's lost all it's flavor, in my opinion. slave joy Owned property of Master David

RRafe -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 8:27:07 AM)
I see her point, and understand the frustration. Tops and bottoms exchange pleasure. But many of you power fanatics seem to not understand that. To you, everything related to kink must have some element of power involved. There is a rigid expectation that every relationship is based on some sort of authority structure-even vanilla ones. When in fact-all that is really happening is that friends and lovers are just enjoying a mutual hobby. Not everything had to fall under the umbrella of some odd sort of "lifestyle." I was asked recently "What's not to like about power?' It's a pain in the ass to be forced to apply it constantly-it limits my personal freedom to have to manage another human being. I don't like being the slave of a slave. What becomes even more frustrating is that we seem to be looked down upon by so many D/s people-as being somehow inferior for wanting what we do. We are just different-got it?

crouchingtigress -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 8:42:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe I see her point, and understand the frustration. Tops and bottoms exchange pleasure. But many of you power fanatics seem to not understand that. To you, everything related to kink must have some element of power involved. There is a rigid expectation that every relationship is based on some sort of authority structure-even vanilla ones. When in fact-all that is really happening is that friends and lovers are just enjoying a mutual hobby. Not everything had to fall under the umbrella of some odd sort of "lifestyle." I was asked recently "What's not to like about power?' It's a pain in the ass to be forced to apply it constantly-it limits my personal freedom to have to manage another human being. I don't like being the slave of a slave. What becomes even more frustrating is that we seem to be looked down upon by so many D/s people-as being somehow inferior for wanting what we do. We are just different-got it? thank you that totally makes sense[:)], i am not sure i agree though....who is looking down on you?

Alumbrado -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 8:51:00 AM)
Those damn people he looks down on...Ouroboros anyone?

RRafe -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 8:51:46 AM)
Just look at some of the comments on the boards and in profiles. We all "just want sex."

Bearlee -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 8:52:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe ...Tops and bottoms exchange pleasure. But many of you power fanatics seem to not understand that. To you, everything related to kink must have some element of power involved. There is a rigid expectation that every relationship is based on some sort of authority structure-even vanilla ones. When in fact-all that is really happening is that friends and lovers are just enjoying a mutual hobby. Not everything had to fall under the umbrella of some odd sort of "lifestyle." .../quote] Hmmmmmmmm... Perhaps some see even bondage and pleasuring as an exchange of power; somebody has to be the do-er and somebody has to be the do-ee. Maybe it's just semantics? I do not see 'TPE'...even when 24/7 as something that is 'always on'...like baseball. Someone once pointed out that they are a musician...always. It is part of what defines that person. They are a musician. So...they would be a 24/7 musician; in spite of not actually holding an insturment all damn day long. No? <shrugs> I'm not challenging you RRafe, I'm just wondering if, like EVERYTHING ELSE, there are 'degrees of power'? While I can understand your reluctance to be the slave of a slave...I do not see that as the case for any of the D/s or M/s couples I know, who live 'it' 24/7. B

RRafe -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 8:54:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe ...Tops and bottoms exchange pleasure. But many of you power fanatics seem to not understand that. To you, everything related to kink must have some element of power involved. There is a rigid expectation that every relationship is based on some sort of authority structure-even vanilla ones. When in fact-all that is really happening is that friends and lovers are just enjoying a mutual hobby. Not everything had to fall under the umbrella of some odd sort of "lifestyle." .../quote] Hmmmmmmmm... Perhaps some see even bondage and pleasuring as an exchange of power; somebody has to be the do-er and somebody has to be the do-ee. Maybe it's just semantics? I do not see 'TPE'...even when 24/7 as something that is 'always on'...like baseball. Someone once pointed out that they are a musician...always. It is part of what defines that person. They are a musician. So...they would be a 24/7 musician; in spite of not actually holding an insturment all damn day long. No? <shrugs> I'm not challenging you RRafe, I'm just wondering if, like EVERYTHING ELSE, there are 'degrees of power'? While I can understand your reluctance to be the slave of a slave...I do not see that as the case for any of the D/s or M/s couples I know, who live 'it' 24/7. B I tired D/s in the past-it was pretty smothering feeling to me. I guess I just don't care for the sterotypical expectations it involves.

milkmaid42dd -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 9:05:30 AM)
Sounds to me like it's you who look down on those of us into D/s, and not vice versa, just because it's not for you. You know, there is room in this lifestyle for ALL of us... from those who come out to play once a month to those living in TPE dynamics, and everything in between. Nor have I seen this discrimation you claim, except for your own dislike of those who are into something that you tried and that didn't work for you <shrug> quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe I see her point, and understand the frustration. Tops and bottoms exchange pleasure. But many of you power fanatics seem to not understand that. To you, everything related to kink must have some element of power involved. There is a rigid expectation that every relationship is based on some sort of authority structure-even vanilla ones. When in fact-all that is really happening is that friends and lovers are just enjoying a mutual hobby. Not everything had to fall under the umbrella of some odd sort of "lifestyle." I was asked recently "What's not to like about power?' It's a pain in the ass to be forced to apply it constantly-it limits my personal freedom to have to manage another human being. I don't like being the slave of a slave. What becomes even more frustrating is that we seem to be looked down upon by so many D/s people-as being somehow inferior for wanting what we do. We are just different-got it?

crouchingtigress -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 9:07:17 AM)
not me, actually all i want is a bondage top.....but one that lives here...[;)] anyone that make the statement "we all want" is projecting thier world view on the world....it is common and annoying granted...but i dont let it bother me. this comunity is so damn rich and there is so many reasons to be attracted to it....folks want to lable at catagorise things all the time...but that only limits me ...if i let it.

RRafe -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 9:07:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: milkmaid42dd Sounds to me like it's you who look down on those of us into D/s, and not vice versa, just because it's not for you. You know, there is room in this lifestyle for ALL of us... from those who come out to play once a month to those living in TPE dynamics, and everything in between. Nor have I seen this discrimation you claim, except for your own dislike of those who are into something that you tried and that didn't work for you <shrug> quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe I see her point, and understand the frustration. Tops and bottoms exchange pleasure. But many of you power fanatics seem to not understand that. To you, everything related to kink must have some element of power involved. There is a rigid expectation that every relationship is based on some sort of authority structure-even vanilla ones. When in fact-all that is really happening is that friends and lovers are just enjoying a mutual hobby. Not everything had to fall under the umbrella of some odd sort of "lifestyle." I was asked recently "What's not to like about power?' It's a pain in the ass to be forced to apply it constantly-it limits my personal freedom to have to manage another human being. I don't like being the slave of a slave. What becomes even more frustrating is that we seem to be looked down upon by so many D/s people-as being somehow inferior for wanting what we do. We are just different-got it? You are correct. I do tend to be annoyed with those who expect thier limitations to be mine.

RRafe -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 9:29:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress not me, actually all i want is a bondage top.....but one that lives here...[;)] anyone that make the statement "we all want" is projecting thier world view on the world....it is common and annoying granted...but i dont let it bother me. this comunity is so damn rich and there is so many reasons to be attracted to it....folks want to lable at catagorise things all the time...but that only limits me ...if i let it. Well let me put it this way. We have a lot of d/ser's on here, it's the bulk of the postings and profiles. And there is a tendency for them to try and assimilate new people into that culture. And saying "JUST having kinky sex" is a put down by itself. Makes it seem like it's not a viable option-when it's said that way-and yet-it is. Tops and bottoms CAN have fulfilling relationships...power exchange is not the default setting for success.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 9:32:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe snip And saying "JUST having kinky sex" is a put down by itself. Makes it seem like it's not a viable option-when it's said that way-and yet-it is. Tops and bottoms CAN have fulfilling relationships...power exchange is not the default setting for success. good point, and just an aside i see what you are talking about alot online, but i have personally never seen it at events and real life activitys...

RRafe -> RE: Libertines (9/26/2007 9:36:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe snip And saying "JUST having kinky sex" is a put down by itself. Makes it seem like it's not a viable option-when it's said that way-and yet-it is. Tops and bottoms CAN have fulfilling relationships...power exchange is not the default setting for success. good point, and just an aside i see what you are talking about alot online, but i have personally never seen it at events and real life activitys... Yes, it's mostly online. Generally there is more respect shown when you are standing eyeball to eyeball with someone. And it's all about how one identifies. I've seen tops and bottoms engage in play that would make an average D/s couple quail... THEY seemed to think it was "heavy Domination".....But to those doing it-it was just a fun scene-go figure.

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