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Group Input Needed - 9/24/2007 9:30:16 PM   
PoligamistMaster


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline 		Having only been in the leather community for a year or so, I am needing some input on the following situation.  Any thoughts from those who have more experience would be greatly appreciated.  Here is the issue:

Is a formal "written" contract or other evidence of a power exchange relationship (such as collaring) required to establish a legitimate power exchange relationship between two people? If no such formal written contract or other evidence is known to others in the BDSM community to exist, then should others in the lifestyle honor and respect a relationship between the two people that has not been formalized?


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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/24/2007 9:41:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		You don't need a contract for anything.  Not having a contract does not equal not being formalized.

It's appropriate for people to respect boundaries and commitments- but you shouldn't expect it, there's tons of assholes out there.  Ignore them.  The only reason they would have meaning is if your relationship weren't actually secure.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/24/2007 9:46:23 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		If she is cute, people will hit on her.  If she isn't that into you, she will stray.

Relationships are only what two people make of them.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/24/2007 9:51:45 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		no but honestly it is helpful to have the basic structure on paper, because when the going gets rough, it can be a big help to be able to sit down and talk about not only the commiments but also the reasons you made the coomittments to this journey in the fist place.

i dont think i would use the term evidence, there is no one or group  that assertains the level you and your partner play at, but as a tool...it is very helpful esp if you are going to take the collaring seriously because there is a  process in becoming a slave, and releasing free will, that will involve growing pains (bites screams and punches in some cases) and having a understanding of what eaxcly each person agrees to, greases the wheels.


< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 9/24/2007 9:53:06 PM >

_____________________________


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This is him

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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/24/2007 9:58:02 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		You can't nail custard to the wall.

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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/24/2007 10:39:48 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		A contract is a symbol, there are quite a few in d/s, it's not going to keep others from hitting on her, it's not going to keep her from straying.  It might demonstrate your clear desire to commit to that type of relationship, it might be too rigid, it's up to the two of you.

I have seen some over the years, mostly formalizing what your expectations and limits are, some with an actual stated time and requirement of a type of debriefing to discuss what is good and not so good prior to renewing. 

Hope this was helpful.
l

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 9/24/2007 10:40:48 PM >

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/24/2007 10:46:03 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I find contracts too static for my tastes. I prefer simple rules and to respect them. That's just my view, of course, which should answer your question...no, contracts are not a required component of D/s relationships.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 12:07:04 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PoligamistMaster

Is a formal "written" contract or other evidence of a power exchange relationship (such as collaring) required to establish a legitimate power exchange relationship between two people?

Nope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PoligamistMaster
If no such formal written contract or other evidence is known to others in the BDSM community to exist, then should others in the lifestyle honor and respect a relationship between the two people that has not been formalized?

By the standards of this community, respect is to be given without regard for the existence, or lack thereof, of a contract.

I am under the impression that most couples do not use a contract.  Many seem to disdain the implications that a contract would seem to carry.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 9/25/2007 12:08:17 AM >

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 1:05:00 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PoligamistMaster


Is a formal "written" contract or other evidence of a power exchange relationship (such as collaring) required to establish a legitimate power exchange relationship between two people?



If any piece of paper was worth anything more than a carbon footprint issue then formal marriages would work.............

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 1:49:32 AM   
iammachine


Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline 		In short, no.

You might find a contract to be useful, you may not. Whatever the case, should you choose to use one or not, that is entirely personal to you and really is not the concern of anyone that is not directly involved in the relationship.


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I still hear you scream... in every breath, every single motion

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 2:32:04 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Even if you have a contract, how do you suppose this will be magically apparent to anyone else? Unless you are going to pin a sign to her saying "Formally contracted slave, do not contact". And I bet people would then come up to read the sign and ask her about it.

If you walk into a party with your arm around her, people will see that you are a couple and she'll still get hit upon. Unless you stay with her during the evening, she'll appear to be on her own and available.

(in reply to iammachine)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 3:57:09 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Nope and nope.  Why do you ask?

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 4:12:47 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Personally, I wouldn't want to associate with any group who wouldn't respect a couple's relationship just because there wasn't some signed piece of paper between them.

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 4:31:10 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Personally, I wouldn't want to associate with any group who wouldn't respect a couple's relationship just because there wasn't some signed piece of paper between them.


QFT

To the OP -

quote:

Is a formal "written" contract or other evidence of a power exchange relationship (such as collaring) required to establish a legitimate power exchange relationship between two people?


No.

quote:

If no such formal written contract or other evidence is known to others in the BDSM community to exist, then should others in the lifestyle honor and respect a relationship between the two people that has not been formalized?



Formalized how?  Fluid bonding could mean formalized to some people.  Is all subjective.  There are people who don't have any respect for any relationship so a 'formalized contract' wouldn't deter them.  Just ignore their stupidity and accept assholes exist everywhere, even in BDSM 'circles'.
 
Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 5:31:25 AM   
slimcontroller


Posts: 46
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Contract

A contract is no use if you cannot enforce it. If you can enforce why have the contract ?
Catch22a
Slimc

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 5:58:47 AM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		A contract is never necessary unless the individuals in the relationship want one.  It shouldn't be necessary, either, in order for others to respect the relationship.  However, as LA pointed out, assholes abound, and there is nothing you can do about that. 
 
The only thing I'd recommend is that it be obvious that you are a serious pair, and not casual play buddies or just friends who sometimes scene together.  (Just because that isn't your type of relationship doesn't mean there aren't relationships like that around.)  That is the only way to ensure that the non-assholes know there is a relationship there who's boundaries are to be respected.  You might think that your relationship to each other would be obvious to others, but sometimes in a first meeting social or play party situation it might not be (hey, some people are just a little slower on the uptake than others, and nothing is gonna change that).  Making sure it a known fact seperates those who might accidentally cross a line with no ill intent from the assholes.
 
Once upon a time, early in my relationship with Master, prior to a visit where we were going to push some limits, I got concerned about what might happen if we had an accident during play.  I wasn't worried about me, but about him should I ever require medical care for a scene related injury.  The last thing this subbie would want is for Master to get hauled off to jail for something I'd asked politely, and waited patiently, for...or for one of those "OOOOPS" things that can happen.  The solution, for me, was to type a statement of the "to whom it may concern" variety, explaining the relationship, the verbal agreement regarding specific activities, and what types of injuries would be the most likely to occur if things when awry.  I emailed him a copy, and had another notarized, which I took with me.  We never usd it.  He didn't demand it to cover his own behind.  It was more a token of my trust in him, and desire to serve and preserve.  Contracts serve various purposes, but IMO, they are of more use for reasons of couple dynamic than for much else.   A contract between two kinksters is no protection from jerks and asses, and probably about as effective if you happen to run afowl of a judge, police officer, or physician who's an *^##$&^^*$ .
 
-grace

(in reply to PoligamistMaster)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 6:04:11 AM   
Phoenix2raven


Posts: 347
Joined: 10/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PoligamistMaster

Is a formal "written" contract or other evidence of a power exchange relationship (such as collaring) required to establish a legitimate power exchange relationship between two people? If no such formal written contract or other evidence is known to others in the BDSM community to exist, then should others in the lifestyle honor and respect a relationship between the two people that has not been formalized?



There are no requirements who ever is telling you its a requirement to have a verbal or written contract is mistaken. If lifestylers cant recognize a power exchange is solid with or with out a contract they need to back off. It doesn't take a uber Dom to see that there is a power exchange between two people. If they don't respect or honor one with out a contract or collar, etc. they  are  probably control freaks. That being said I was in a similar situation and we basically ignored them until they hit on my submissive at a social. They were egected quickly and most of the other lifestylers were glad.
~phoenix~   


_____________________________

If you're a Dominate, are you looking for a sublimate?

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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 8:36:17 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:



Is a formal "written" contract or other evidence of a power exchange relationship (such as collaring) required to establish a legitimate power exchange relationship between two people?

Nope. I highly doubt that Valyraen and I will ever a contract. We understand that it is helpful in nailing down what is expected from both sides, but we simply don't feel the need for one. That may change or not.
quote:


If no such formal written contract or other evidence is known to others in the BDSM community to exist, then should others in the lifestyle honor and respect a relationship between the two people that has not been formalized?

I'm going to give your relationship as much respect as it warrents. Doesn't matter how many contracts you sign.

Relationships where trust and the agreed on terms are being violated all the time isn't going to get much respect even though you have a nifty piece of paper. Now, if you feel that my relationship with Valyraen is not "formalized" or invalid simply because we don't feel the need to have that nifty piece of paper, I would suggest you attend some local groups and munchs. Not everyone uses contracts and, to be honest, this is the first time I have ever heard anyone so much as hint at the idea that the relationships without contracts shouldn't be respected on their merits.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 8:38:47 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Even if you have a contract, how do you suppose this will be magically apparent to anyone else? Unless you are going to pin a sign to her saying "Formally contracted slave, do not contact". And I bet people would then come up to read the sign and ask her about it.



....

That would be awfully tempting... He would have to attach a booklet to her so that everyone could read about the situation.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Group Input Needed - 9/25/2007 8:41:35 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		You have to put it in writing...Everyone respects a written contract...EVERYONE!!!  If you sign your name to it...It makes it so.

_____________________________



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