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Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 4:53:05 AM

meatcleaver

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One hundred schools, four-fifths from the private sector, account for nearly a third of all UK undergraduates starting at Oxford or Cambridge universities each year, according to research.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/universityaccess/story/0,,2172797,00.html

OK, nothing new here. This subject has pissed me off ever since my cousin couldn't get a place at Oxbridge with five grade A A'levels. A few years ago I admit but I'm pissed off nothing has changed and I'm fucking pissed off whenever I hear middleclass politicians say class doesn't exist in modern Britain.

It's the reality of stories like this that makes me grateful my daughter had the opportunity to be educated in Europe where class is not a greater issue than intelligence and capability.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/21/2007 4:55:57 AM >

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 5:10:31 AM

Politesub53

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Meat what do you mean nothing has changed ? Your post shows one third come from the private sector schools. it used to be 100% from Public Schools... Sure its not changing as fast as everyone would like, but it is changing. Middle class politicians, many liberal or left wing, lie through their teeth to grab the working class vote.

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 5:39:48 AM

sophia37

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I dont see the big deal here. One of my children might have gone to Harvard here in the US, except we as a family couldnt afford a private college. So she went to state school. So? What a blessing to have an affordable state school! I dont see any inequity in that.

Harvard may not be the right choice for everyone. If training to work on cars is your love, then Harvard would be a bad fit.

Truthfully, you can get an excellent education wherever you go, as long as you have the discipline, determination and proper outlook. I firmly believe that.

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 5:43:02 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Meat what do you mean nothing has changed ? Your post shows one third come from the private sector schools. it used to be 100% from Public Schools... Sure its not changing as fast as everyone would like, but it is changing. Middle class politicians, many liberal or left wing, lie through their teeth to grab the working class vote.

We're in the 21st century Politesub and Britain is falling behind educationally to its rivals which shows the change isn't fast enough. The article does point out that even state school entry is limited to a narrow band of schools as well and we can guess what sort of schools they are.

Ironically there has just been a report on the BBC showing recruitment into the media is from a narrow racial and cultural group of people .ie white middleclass.

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 5:44:14 AM

seeksfemslave

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Furthermore I would bet that most of the graduates of at least Oxford become a tax liability to working class heroes like me. lol
Cambridge, I'm not so sure since I believe it has more science faculties. I think.

Until the bullet is bitten and the public school system neutered in some way then very little progress will be made.
In all likelyhood class distinction will never disappear, but you have to have an especially thick skin to assume an air of superiority while talking like a Scouser "wheres me shert" a Geordie "Geeus a job" or a Brummie "cum 'ere yow"

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 9:03:04 AM

leatherette

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Oh God torture, torture. This subject is a bigger can of worms than "fat". Sssshhhhhh....
In England: money and class are not quite the same thing.

wishing all the finest education

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 9:20:57 AM

LadyEllen

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OK, so what this means then is that for 1000 undergrads entering Oxbridge, 333 come from 100 schools, of which 80 are private schools?

Going by the ratios then, of the 80 private schools each send 3 to 4 to Oxbridge, 267 altogether. If I'd paid for my kids' education and these were the odds, I'd be pretty pissed off.
The remaining 20 schools - presumably the best state schools, contribute 66, or 3 to 4 each
The remaining 667 are drawn from the ordinary state education system. A lot more schools certainly, and so a lower average contribution to undergrad numbers, but it aint that bad. Given that 25-50% of the state intake doesnt do the two extra years for the A level qualifications required for university entry, it aint that bad at all.

Still though, the point remains - class is still an issue in the UK. And as Seeks sort of pointed out, its mainly still in the area of the glass ceiling if yow dow tok proper loik.

E

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 11:15:59 AM

seeksfemslave

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No doubt about that, I worked for a major telecomms. engineering firm and it was noticable that

(1)Most of the engineers, tho' middle class, did not have public school accents, some did but most didn't.
(2)With managerial types the situation was reversed.
(3) The firm has since gone nearly "bust" and been "taken over".

I think the first two facts are not unconnected to the third.;

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 11:19:23 AM

LadyEllen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

No doubt about that, I worked for a major telecomms. engineering firm and it was noticable that

(1)Most of the engineers, tho' middle class, did not have public school accents, some did but most didn't.
(2)With managerial types the situation was reversed.
(3) The firm has since gone nearly "bust" and been "taken over".

I think the first two facts are not unconnected to the third.;

Amen to that Seeks!

Lions led by donkeys, every time.

E

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 11:42:24 AM

Politesub53

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I dont agree that its just in one area. Each section of society tends to look down on the one below, at least to some degree. It doesnt matter how many millions Rooney ect make, they are still looked up as working class, due to his background.

Thankfully schooling is much better than it used to be, 30 years ago very few working class children made it to Oxbridge, 50 years ago it was almost unheard of.

Sophia... i know these days its possible to get the same education elsewhere than Harvard. Which student would be most likely to land the job though, one from Harvard or one just as bright but educated somewhere else ?

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 11:57:52 AM

Sinergy

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"There you are, going on about class again." - Dennis' Mother (Terry Jones)

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 2:24:27 PM

servantheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

I dont see the big deal here. One of my children might have gone to Harvard here in the US, except we as a family couldnt afford a private college. So she went to state school. So? What a blessing to have an affordable state school! I dont see any inequity in that.

Harvard may not be the right choice for everyone. If training to work on cars is your love, then Harvard would be a bad fit.

Truthfully, you can get an excellent education wherever you go, as long as you have the discipline, determination and proper outlook. I firmly believe that.

You are absolutely correct, Sophia. Education is what you make of it, regardless of the words on the building where it takes place.

Taryn

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RE: Class alive and well in Britain - 9/21/2007 3:04:02 PM

farglebargle

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Harry Harrison predicted a lot of this in his novel series "To The Stars"...

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