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Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 12:01:14 PM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
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It seems to me that people often relate their own feelings quite innocently, without any implied disdain for opposing viewpoints, but unless they explicity include a disclaimer like "this is just my preference, yours is just as good", they often get taken to task for it. I feel that we should generally assume no offense without explicit cause. Kind of an "innocent unless clearly guilty" way of looking at it.

On the other hand, I think that questioning or disparaging someone else's preference is crossing the line, and shouldn't be acceptable. I say that knowing that I may actually have been guilty of it myself, in reply to the same directed at me.

For example, if I write that severe corporal punishment is very important to me [it's not, this is just an example], someone could post an opposing point of view in two different ways: (1) they could say that they prefer more gentle correction, or that they can't handle severe physical punishment, or whatever their preference is in regard to corporal, or (2) they could say "Why in the world would you care about that? That's not being submissive, that's topping from the bottome ...", etc., etc., ad nauseum. In my opinion, the second one crosses the line. It doesn't just state their preference, it attacks mine. I think the first one is fine.

Now, if the OP clearly requests replies related to techniques or implements to help with severe corporal, that the topic is not a discussion of the relative merits of physical vs. mental, S&M vs D/s, then I think even a (1)-type response is out of line because it's off topic. There's also a vague implication that the writer just can't stand to see someone talking about a preference that differs from theirs, without putting their own two cents in.

I often challenge people's opinions or logic, but I do try to avoid challenging preferences. They just are. Nothing to debate.

What do you think? Are we too thin-skinned in general, and see offense where it didn't really exist? What crosses the line, and what doesn't?

Post #: 1

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 12:02:30 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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I think too thin skinned. When you put something out, you can and will get anything back. The good part is, you can ignore anything as well.

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(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 2

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 12:17:58 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

I do firmly believe that we are all too thinned skinned but I believe in the complete opposite of what you are suggesting. I think we would all be way better off and really helpful as we all seem to want to make a contribution, learn and be helpful to actually focus on what we write to avoid making gross generalizations and/or with strong opinions based on personal one note experiences or whatever we base our views on.

Do I think it is important to ignore people who make personal attacks based when they are such low end, close minded and insulting, yes I do, after all what is the point. At the same time though I have both in real life and on the Internet see time after time people write in gross generalizations, worse case scenarios and closed minded agenda or ego pushing way that I think it is good whether a person writes them back politely and intelligently or even if no one else coarse and rude to at least have other view points on the subject.

The problem is it is somewhat a fine line and often subjective to the difference between logic, opinions and preference and many times people are confused. It simply too much to ask or be protected from people confusing these things or writing in a confusing way that confuses people. For me it is better to see a lot of replies even if some are low brow so that someone who is actually interested in the topic can see all sides and determine for themselves.

Edited to change not into note

< Message edited by toservez -- 9/10/2007 1:01:58 PM >

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 12:31:27 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

I think that everyone has the right to do what they want to do (obviously consensually blahblah you get my point). I also think everyone has the right to think what they want to think. Even if that hurts someone else's poor wittle feelings.

We're all adults. If you need approval from everyone else in order to feel good about your sexual choices you might want to wonder why that is. If something is such a sore spot that you don't want to hear anything negative about it....dude don't post it on the internet!

Obviously the polite thing is not to say anything if you don't have anything nice to say. But then again this isn't happy bunny land and we aren't all bestestest friends. Some people might think something is hot, some people might think something is gross. Oh well. Just because a man thinks I have issues for enjoying rape play doesn't mean I'm going to stop enjoying it. I'm a big girl and can make my own sexual choices.

Also...I find that people only get bothered as this relates to the more 'out there' kinks. Just as an example - lots of people criticized someone for dismissing beliefs in psychics on one thread. Yet I've come across oodles of posts insulting Christianity. Not just dismissing it, but seriously insulting someone's religion. Or posts against monogamy. Or heterosexuality. Or 'Vanilla' people. The point is that not everybody respects everything.

I won't infringe on your right to do what you want as long as you don't infringe on my right to do what I want. And that includes my right to insult, laugh at, and dismiss things. But the minute you start telling me what I can and can't do you open up Pandora's box.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 4

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 1:20:59 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

There are some people who are thin skinned,if you are then posting may not
be a good idea for you as you will get a huge variety of answers/opinions/experiences that may or may not be the response you want.
I use what I can and disregard the rest of it.

I can safely say I dont like it when someone 'attacks' they way I do things.
It shouldnt matter to them in the least what I do in MY space.
But the fact remains someone will at some point,oh well.

I also dont believe its right to attack others for what they do in their space.
Just because their kink* isnt My kink doesnt make it wrong,IMHO.
Even if they dont practice SSC and using Safe Words its really upto the parties
concerned on what happens.
As with above someone will at some point 'attack' the way they do what
they do.The interpretations of whats right and wrong can vary so greatly
from person to person that is to be expected that people wont agree on everything.

*Illegal kink is a diffrent story,again right and wrong depends on some personal interpretations.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 5

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 8:02:57 PM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

Thank for all your thoghts on this.

My main gripe about the hypersensitivity of readers, as well as the insensitivity of some writers, is that the dialogue often degenerates into snippy retorts, tit-for-tat, and such BS becomes like weeds clogging up a garden. It's a pain in the neck to dig through the finger-pointing posts, just to get the the ones that really have something worthwhile to say.

Readers should not go looking for insults that aren't clearly intended. Give the writer the benefit of the doubt. Writers should be careful to avoid saying something that is likely to be interpreted as insulting.

And when a couple of people start going at it, the rest of us should probably just ignore it.

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 6

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 9:34:40 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

It seems to me that people often relate their own feelings quite innocently, without any implied disdain for opposing viewpoints, but unless they explicity include a disclaimer like "this is just my preference, yours is just as good", they often get taken to task for it. I feel that we should generally assume no offense without explicit cause. Kind of an "innocent unless clearly guilty" way of looking at it.

On the other hand, I think that questioning or disparaging someone else's preference is crossing the line, and shouldn't be acceptable. I say that knowing that I may actually have been guilty of it myself, in reply to the same directed at me.

For example, if I write that severe corporal punishment is very important to me [it's not, this is just an example], someone could post an opposing point of view in two different ways: (1) they could say that they prefer more gentle correction, or that they can't handle severe physical punishment, or whatever their preference is in regard to corporal, or (2) they could say "Why in the world would you care about that? That's not being submissive, that's topping from the bottome ...", etc., etc., ad nauseum. In my opinion, the second one crosses the line. It doesn't just state their preference, it attacks mine. I think the first one is fine.

Now, if the OP clearly requests replies related to techniques or implements to help with severe corporal, that the topic is not a discussion of the relative merits of physical vs. mental, S&M vs D/s, then I think even a (1)-type response is out of line because it's off topic. There's also a vague implication that the writer just can't stand to see someone talking about a preference that differs from theirs, without putting their own two cents in.

I often challenge people's opinions or logic, but I do try to avoid challenging preferences. They just are. Nothing to debate.

What do you think? Are we too thin-skinned in general, and see offense where it didn't really exist? What crosses the line, and what doesn't?

I'll answer with a question. What gives us any right to tell others how to think?

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 7

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 9:52:09 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub
Readers should not go looking for insults that aren't clearly intended.

Writers should be careful to avoid saying something that is likely to be interpreted as insulting.

And when a couple of people start going at it, the rest of us should probably just ignore it.

my mom would say "dont should all over yourself".....my mom can be seriously zen at times

but her point is, it is cruel self torture to expect things to be different then they are.

inviting change does not have words like should, instead it focuses on could and would.

_____________________________

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 8

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 10:49:54 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I've been sometimes asked why I always put IMO after a lot of my comments. Well the reason you cited is the exact reason I do. You'd think it would be obvious if they are my comments, that they are only my own opinion. But apparently, that isn't the case, so I use a lot of IMOs when I make a comment. Because I want to avoid feeling the need to clarify ad nauseum after a comment I make.

And there have been times (although not lately) when I've made a comment, and then had to go off-line immediately for some reason or other - then I come back later, and find the thread has gotten completely off the topic, due to someone (or several people) debating a point I never even made to begin with. So anyway - I know what you're saying.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/10/2007 10:52:00 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 9

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/10/2007 11:58:35 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

What do you think? Are we too thin-skinned in general, and see offense where it didn't really exist? What crosses the line, and what doesn't?

it's probably a combination of things. some days people are just in a pissy mood and are going to take offense at any off the cuff remark, other days the exact same post won't make those same people bat an eye.

i don't think people are all that thin-skinned who post reguarly to forums. such don't, generally, stick around very long for the simple fact that places like that can be brutal given the anonimity of the net.

When someone uses 'i' statements, that's good enough for me to believe it's their own opinion. when they fail to use 'i' statements or make blanket statements, even if i personally agree with them, i'll call them out on it.

as far as what crosses a line .. i'd have to take it on a case by case basis as that line is going to vary depending on my mood, the placement of the moon in the sky, my physical and mental state of being etc. etc. sometimes you say 'boo', that crosses the line.. sometimes you call me a fucking bitch from hell and it'll just make me chuckle. it's pretty subjective.

celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 10

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 12:05:49 AM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

i notice sometimes a thread will get going, then someone/s will come in and kind of mess it up in a self-righteous way. some other nice person/s will try and guide the bully to make room. the bully will sometimes get even more determined citing pages and pages of who-knows-what because at this time i cannot follow what they are saying and i really dont want to. interspersed with that is really funny quips and lil "hello's hows your moms" from other posters and a bunch of words directly relating to the thread. i think it is good to air out our opinions and pov's about stuff. i have personally learned all sorts of things from following a thread.

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I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 11

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 1:57:36 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think too thin skinned. When you put something out, you can and will get anything back. The good part is, you can ignore anything as well.

What she said.... But also what celeste said...

People might be thin skinned on a day when the world suddenly got heavier for them. Besides, what use would a forum have if all the opinions were identical and all the advice the same? It helps me to read the different opinions and frankly helps me more when the opinions differ from mine.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 12

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 2:14:41 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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I guess I don't mind a thread going off topic (I learn things when that happpens too, a lot of the time) as much as I hate people assuming what I mean, without bothering to clarify if it's what I meant - especially if they are going to get all upset about it. I think it's a little stupid, actually - why not just ask?

I think I am usually fairly explicit (not always, but usually) about what I mean, but if somebody is going to get super offended at whatever it is they are assuming I mean, by something I write (which is rare, but has happened) why not just say: "Are you really saying____________?"(whatever it is they think I am saying) -it would save about another page of apologies and re-clarification (because I rarely, if ever, mean to intentionally offend anyone).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/11/2007 2:21:19 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 13

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 3:28:30 AM

Cyntilating

Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think too thin skinned. When you put something out, you can and will get anything back. The good part is, you can ignore anything as well.

What she said.... But also what celeste said...

People might be thin skinned on a day when the world suddenly got heavier for them. Besides, what use would a forum have if all the opinions were identical and all the advice the same? It helps me to read the different opinions and frankly helps me more when the opinions differ from mine.

yes! I so agree..
I especially like> "on a day when the world suddenly got heavier for them" ...excellent point..

as in life there are exceptions, but I think we all come here with good intentions and a genuine willingness to express what we feel and think, in a helpful or informative manner..
HOW we go about that> will be different from person to person.. individuals, being themselves.
I agree with you Eyesopened> the diversity is what makes this a forum, rather than just an article where we pick up and read ONE persons views and opinions on a subject matter...

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 14

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 7:53:53 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

If you really want to see think skinned,dare post a prefference for thin bodies.

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Post #: 15

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 8:23:39 AM

murmur

Posts: 394
Joined: 9/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

We're all adults. If you need approval from everyone else in order to feel good about your sexual choices you might want to wonder why that is. If something is such a sore spot that you don't want to hear anything negative about it....dude don't post it on the internet!

*that rocks dude!*

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 16

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 9:13:36 AM

leatherette

Posts: 255
Status: offline

Hi hardbodysub:
It seems to me that some make statements that reflect their own truth, but don't state it as they feel it is obvious to others that it is an opinion.
Others will state a belief that is an individual truth - and come across ( at least) that it is the one true way or sole reality.
To use your example:

'If I write that "severe corporal punishment is very important to me"   - does differ in meaning
to writing - "severe corporal punishment is very important".

Is it nit picking? Yeah.
But, we are in a forum that many enjoy to discover new things, discuss ideas, learn and share and have fun.

How would it be if we all stood in single file, accepted anything that was spoon fed, and everyone always played
well with others?   ( why am i hearing a bbaaaaaaing sound and feel itchy ?)

Oh, and I think that to label an entire .. group.. as thin skinned in general... would do an injustice to each individual and is a subjective, value based judgement call.

I am serious and i do think we often take ourselves too seriously. ( IMHO -

)

Thank you and a smile -
leatherette

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 17

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 9:53:55 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

The problem is a lot of things are so subjective and when following a thread it is one thing to make a disclaimer of IMO state it neutrally and be gone and another thing by using what ever disclaimer you put in and proceed to write in a condescending tone and/or then engage in a debate with other people’s thoughts and opinions. The fact is a disclaimer just cannot be used as I want to be above the debate and no personal I disagree with me comments. A message board is a discussion and depending on the topics, how people write and a bunch of other factors if you share your view you best be willing to read comments on it.

Simple a disclaimer of opinion will not or should not ever make it above comment for others. This does not justify people disagreeing in a disrespectful or in a hateful way but what determines what these are is so subjective that if you want a vibrant and active board that you can read many opinions on a subject then part of the price is that some rude and crude messages will happen and flame wars will sprout up. It is simply the price.

If you enter the fray do not pretend or expect to be above it.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to leatherette)

Post #: 18

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 9:59:04 AM

SoulOfIron2007

Posts: 32
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

I think that anyone should be free to share and express their opinions about anything at all in an open way, so long as they are respectful. Saying, "Your way is not mine," is not the same thing as saying, "Your way is wrong," or, "What the hell is wrong with you". People do things differently, they think and feel differently, and it's mature, honest discussion of these things that helps us to learn and grow as people. If we can't take someone disagreeing with us, we need to be isolated, because it's GOING to happen.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 19

RE: Respect for preferences, and crossing the line - 9/11/2007 10:23:13 AM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: murmur

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

We're all adults. If you need approval from everyone else in order to feel good about your sexual choices you might want to wonder why that is. If something is such a sore spot that you don't want to hear anything negative about it....dude don't post it on the internet!

*that rocks dude!*

lulz.

I mixes teh big werds wif teh small werds.

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 20

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