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OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/6/2007 8:14:18 PM

FatDomDaddy

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With out a doubt, the best show on television is years!

Plus some very subtle and quite right for the time D/s stuff going on.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/6/2007 8:43:57 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Dunno about the best in years (Firefly, Buffy, Heroes, House, Boston Legal, Office, Freaks and Geeks, Project Runway, Dexter, just to name a few from this century)

And that isn't Ds- it's cultural doctrination. Ds is a PERSONAL relationship orientation, not what you do because you were told you should do it by the culture you were raised in and aren't given a free choice otherwise.

But Mad Men is a good show and it definitely has been growing on me.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/6/2007 9:07:26 PM

FatDomDaddy

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I would have to disagree. Tonight when that young secretary felt her hair being pulled, then his hands around her kneck and had her blouse ripped, she was personally turned on, not culturally indoctrinated to feel so. She also showed it when he discribed his hunting fantasy to her last week. There are many characters making personal choices on that show, very personal choices at that.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/6/2007 9:18:45 PM

SusanofO

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I noticed that, I thought it was a hot scene.

Not to sound "Vanilla" or anything, but I also like looking at the women's clothing in that show. I can remember my mother wearing that stuff (when she died, I inherited a cashmere blue twin sweater set she actually wore in the early 1960's). Sorry for the slight thread hi-jack...it's an interesting show, IMO.

I also noticed tonight there was a scene between the closeted gay guy, and the other guy (the ad exec) who is actually also gay, but doesn't want to admit it to himself (due to it being so socially ostracizing at the time). Who could blame him for wanting to stay permenently in the closet, back then?

I remember in grade school, there was a girl in my class whose mother was actually - shocker - DIVORCED. Due to this, she was ostracized (unfairly IMO) by practically all of the other kids in our class (plus her first name was Venus, which didn't help matters). But she was nice, and it was mean of them to do, I think. Venus was knock-out beautiful, too - I would not be surprised if she became a model (I lost track of her, so I am not sure). I notice that theme has been touched on in the show also (the shame of the poor divorced female neighbor who "has to work", due to being divorced).

I also remember my grandmother whining about how my mother shouldn't "have to" work. My mom wanted to work - she was a school teacher, and she liked her job. But my grandmother was constantly hassling her about working, as I recall.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/6/2007 9:46:39 PM >

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 9:23:21 AM

FatDomDaddy

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It has susan and you are right about how cool the clothes are, there is something very sexy about it. I stand by my statement that there are very D/s undertones to all of it.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 9:27:10 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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That's not Ds- that's kinky sex. And whether the girl was HONESTLY turned on by the hunting scene is up for debate.

I'm not saying there wasn't Ds in other cultures- I'm simply saying that just because X is submissive to Y doesn't make them "a submissive" or their relationship "Ds"

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 10:11:14 AM

FatDomDaddy

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Isn't it all just kinky sex LA ;-)

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 10:12:22 AM

FatDomDaddy

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BTW... the 1950 household sect will love this show

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 10:47:40 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Ever notice it's the middle or upper class whites who really get into that period? Times really weren't so hot for anyone else then.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 10:53:52 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Ever notice it's the middle or upper class whites who really get into that period? Times really weren't so hot for anyone else then.

hmm, the 1950s...no one on either side of my family had indoor plumbing, everyone worked hard labor on a farm or as cooks/maids for rich white families (or all of the above), they were dirt poor, my Master's family was still sharecropping, picking cotton in mississippi...and a 15 yr old black kid got beaten to death for whistling at some dumb white chick....ah yes, the good ol' days. :)

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 10:55:34 AM

e01n

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I second LA's observation... definitely something associated with "privilege"

Me, I saw 2 episodes and saw that what has just been SPOILED for me was coming... I WAS going to wait for the DVD and have a fap-fest... Now I'll just have to nick it off the neighbors' TiVo.

<sigh>

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 10:56:42 AM

daddysprop247

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btw, when and on what station does this show air?

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 11:10:52 AM

e01n

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AMC, thursday nights.

http://www.amctv.com/originals/madmen/

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 11:15:59 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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And it's "on demand" if you have a carrier who provides it.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 1:33:57 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
hmm, the 1950s...no one on either side of my family had indoor plumbing, everyone worked hard labor on a farm or as cooks/maids for rich white families (or all of the above), they were dirt poor, my Master's family was still sharecropping, picking cotton in mississippi...and a 15 yr old black kid got beaten to death for whistling at some dumb white chick....ah yes, the good ol' days. :)

I don't doubt being a black family in Mississippi in 1960 was wonderful either.

But throughout out the country while living under racism, there were nonetheless positive things.

There was not the out of wedlock, teenage mother issues.
There were strong two parent Black families.
There were not generations of Black women living under one roof without fathers raising their kids.
Black schools were teaching and graduating students at rates that dwarf current rates in Black schools
There was not the almost genocidal black on black crime issues.
There was not a gang issue destroying the culture of Black youth.... The lynching rate, horrific as it was, was infinitesimal compared to the murders of young black men shot down by gangs.There were not young black men beaten to death for tennis shoes. Shall I go on?.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 3:13:31 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
There was not the out of wedlock, teenage mother issues.

What? I think you mean there's not as many unwanted pregnancies.

Trust me, there was a REASON people fought for abortion.

quote:

There were strong two parent Black families.

There still are.

quote:

There were not generations of Black women living under one roof without fathers raising their kids.
Black schools were teaching and graduating students at rates that dwarf current rates in Black schools
There was not the almost genocidal black on black crime issues.
There was not a gang issue destroying the culture of Black youth.... The lynching rate, horrific as it was, was infinitesimal compared to the murders of young black men shot down by gangs.There were not young black men beaten to death for tennis shoes. Shall I go on?.

I could go through each of your points- all that existed then and exists now. Frequency and number and cause and effect may have changed somewhat, but stop idealizing the past.

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/7/2007 6:50:57 PM

e01n

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The past wasn't what it used to be... Even for the "privileged"

My dad's people came over from Ireland in '48, hoping for the post-war prosperity... only to find that it didn't really exist the way the newsreels made it sound. My mother came here in '67 looking for a similar pot of gold, or at least the suburbia on TV. My grandfather had the joy of dealing with stereotypes: he was a violent drunkard, he was catholic and a papist and many other things that weren't true either.

Were we as bad off as the black family described? No. But was it sunshine and happiness? Far from it.

I had the privilege of sitting in on a couple of conversations with people involved with AIM at a pow-wow once. Made me see that in general, people do their best to fuck over others as much as possible if they are in any way different. And all because someone chose to bitch about my presence by calling me an Anglo... truly informative.

No, I didn't live in the early 60s - but I see it's survival in lad culture today. FHM is now what Esquire was then. And it's the same reckless abuse of perceived power.

Me, I'm all about the reckless abuse of real power...

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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/8/2007 4:17:48 AM

SusanofO

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Well in those days, if a woman was actually married to a violent drunkard, she probably just had to put up or shut up, because divorce was possible, but as I recall it was very socially ostracizing and frowned upon generally. One drawback to that era. If she wanted to leave, she couldn't really get a job that would ever support a family, so especially if she had kids, unless she could live with relatives, or had a "plan" and some other kin d of help besdies, she was basically totally screwed.

I remember as a child seeing "Women's jobs" and "Men's jobs" classified in the "Help Wanted" section of my local newspapar - the women's jobs were inevitably things like secretary or nurse or teacher, or light industrial factory work, or waitressing, and even thought they didn't pay much to begin with, in those days, it was legal to pay women less than men, in fact it was "justified" by people believing (to a degree) that most women had a "husband to support them" (what's that got to do with it?)

I know there was a woman who lived next door to me as a kid, and she was divorced - and also a real shrew. She made her son (age 10 at the time) paint the entire house one Summer in the blazing hot sun, and yelled at him the entire time. She also had a terrific drinking problem, and was undoubtedly an abusive parent. When he was 17, he shot her with a shotgun, and killed her, and did several years in a juvenile detention facility for that (my family had moved to a different neighborhood by that time).

I remember thinking what a nice kid he was at 10 years old (he was a nice kid, even if his mom was a shrew)- it was just a tragedy things evolved for them to that point. That was slightly off-topic, but I remembered it, and thought his mother's problems were possibly somewhat increased with having to bear the social stigma of the time of being divorced.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 4:20:26 AM >

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And sings the tune without the words,
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RE: OK... just finished tonight's Mad Men - 9/8/2007 9:39:10 AM

e01n

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...I smell a thread split...

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