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curious - 9/4/2007 10:09:39 AM   
IrishMist


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http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/09/03/roesgen.jena6.update.cnn

kind of curious is anyone else has been following this story?

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 11:05:33 AM   
Alumbrado


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The news 'coverage' holds up a copy of the school handbook and states that the maximum penalty allowable for fighting is a 3 day suspension. 

Then they try to insinuate that a felony conviction and sentence in a criminal court is somehow a violation of that 'maximum'.

What does that help ? (Besides ratings)

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 11:59:45 AM   
IrishMist


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Hi Alumbrado
 
The reason I asked is that this is the first time I have seen this on the news, yet apparently it happened back in December I believe it said.
 
It seems almost as if there is something missing; huge gaps in the actual story that when presented with what they have here, just don’t make sense or add up.
 
One, being the handbook, like you pointed out.
 
But another, and this is the one that really has me trying to figure this out is that the pictures they show of the boy who was beaten…all they show is a cheek that looks a bit red…basically like someone had done nothing more than punched him. Yet, they claim that he was beaten to almost death, given them the grounds to claim attempted murder.
 
Another is that from what I understood from the news reports on television today; when they showed the boy who was attacked, and talked with him; from his own account, he does not have a clear memory of who attacked him.
 
I just am kind of confused about this story, which is why I was wondering if anyone else had been following it.


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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 12:09:06 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Somehow I missed this. Can it be that the media feels black on white crime isn't considered newsworthy?

I view this as a result of  the 'PC Whiplash' effect. The race of the participants involved in the incident is more important to consider than the incident itself or the incidents leading up to the event that left one person with, to date, permanent injury.

We now have a third generation of people who have 'more equal' status according to the US laws concerning EEO/ECOA and at least one generation raised under more equal 'hate crime' statutes. We have legalized unequal hiring practices and law enforcement practices. Its no wonder that as a result we have resentment and/or paranoia. It's also no wonder that at the taped rally in support of the 'Janus 6' it wasn't a USA flag being waved, but some other, obviously considered more civilized.

The DA, paralleling another DA but on the other side of the racial make up of his constituency, is making this an election issue. "Prosecuting to the fullest extent of the Law" is a campaign slogan isn't it?

Michael Vick will lose $100 Million being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law because he unfortunately was born with talent and ability and presented a campaign rallying cry. PETA should be thanking him profusely behind the scenes for all the money his exploits have brought to them. Yet what he did to his dogs over the years, not so public figures, do to their's every day - killing them for personal amusement, gain, or just because they didn't measure up to breed standards. Vick's just "more equal" because he presented a bigger target and had a higher profile.

We live in a world of 'more equal' status and rationalized 'correctness'. In reality we have rationalized and legalized hypocrisy. No wonder that we accept and submit to it so easily.

However, it is alleged that this event was caused by a shade tree. Pointing out that Al Gore's fight against global warming has implications far beyond rising sea levels. If they had just planted another tree or if our carbon footprint was smaller - this tragedy could have been avoided.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
The news 'coverage' holds up a copy of the school handbook and states that the maximum penalty allowable for fighting is a 3 day suspension. 

Then they try to insinuate that a felony conviction and sentence in a criminal court is somehow a violation of that 'maximum'.
What does that help ? (Besides ratings)
Who knows if both the criminal and school penalties will run concurrent. Maybe they are pointing out how after they get out of prison they'll have to serve the suspension.

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 2:25:38 PM   
Blaakmaan


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Damn!

Don't any Black people post on this site???  Aren't there any Black people on CM.com (other than the ones who are pining for a white dom or sub or switch or whatever)?

Yes, I've been following the Jenna 6 story.  It's been in the news for some time now, although I will admit I didn't hear about it last year, either.  Apparently it just started getting big coverage in the last few months.

http://www.freethejena6.org/

This case is just ONE OF MANY where the criminal justice system is trying to run some Black males into prison over some bullshit!

You tell me, when was the last time you heard of some young white students even being CHARGED with such a thing as ATTEMPTED MURDER over a fist-fight with some Black students???

I'll tell you when.  NEVER!

This very much reminds me of the case of Genarlow Wilson, a Black male, who was charged with RAPE (!) in North Carolina, but convicted only of  AGGREVATED CHILD MOLESTATION (!) for engaging in an act of CONSENSUAL oral sex with a 15-year-old white girl when he was 17.  He was sentenced to ELEVEN YEARS in prison (of which TEN YEARS is MANDATORY)!  His sentence is under appeal.

The full story:

http://www.wilsonappeal.com/
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/21/opinion/21thu4.html?ex=1324357200&en=d3a8cf6d030c60b7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Now, you tell me.  When have you EVER heard of a WHITE teenager being charged with or convicted of ANYTHING for an act of consensual oral sex with another teenager?  I know I have NEVER heard of such a thing, and I have also never heard of a Black teenager being charged with such a thing for consensual oral sex with another Black teenager!

It's about whiteness.

When you're white, you're less likely to get charged and, if you do get charged, you more likely to get charged with a less weighty crime.

When you're not, you more likely to get charged, and if you are, it's more likely to be the weightiest charge the DA can dig up!

And, pardon me, but how in the world can a school suspension and a prison term "run concurrent"???

"PC Whiplash Effect" (whatever the hell THAT is supposed to be...) my ass!

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 2:50:40 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


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hanging nooses from a tree, in this circumstance, was wrong......very wrong....

beating someone unconscious, and continuing to kick them while down, 6 against 1....is more wrong.....in my world anyhow.....

30 years too harsh? maybe, maybe not....someone capable of this at such a young age scares me......but i have personal reasons for despising violent youths....

it sucks to loose control of your self and then have to suffer the consequences....some of us learn this easier than others......

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 3:21:52 PM   
IrishMist


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Blaakmaan, I would like to thank you for providing the link; it helped in dispelling some of the confusion that I was feeling towards this incident.

All I can say after reading everything I could on this today is...it sickens me...on both sides...for those 6 who are being charged unfairly to the 1 who was attacked unfairly. This whole situation sucks.

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 3:28:16 PM   
nmjardine


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For those who have not heard of the Jena 6, here are the facts in the case (taken from
http://pursuingholiness.com/2007/06/26/jena-6-update/)

quote:

On Thursday, August 31, 2006, a small group of black students asked if they could sit under a tree on the traditionally white side of the Jena High School square. Why they felt it necessary to ASK is something else entirely. The students were informed by the Vice Principal that they could sit wherever they pleased. The following day, September 1, 2006, three nooses were found hanging from the tree in question. Two of the nooses were black and one was gold: the Jena High School colors. On Tuesday night, September 5, 2006, a group of black parents convened at the L&A Missionary Baptist Church in Jena to discuss their response to what they considered a hate crime and an act of intimidation, though no laws were broken by hanging these nooses. When black students staged an impromptu protest under the tree on Wednesday, September 6, 2006, a school assembly was hastily convened. Flanked by police officers, District Attorney Reed Walters warned black students that additional unrest would be treated as a criminal matter. According to multiple witnesses, Walters warned the black student protestors that, “I can make your lives disappear with a stroke of my pen.” This was widely interpreted as a reference to the filing of charges carrying a maximum sentence of life in prison. On Thursday, September 7th, police officers patrolled the halls of Jena High School and on Friday, September 8th, the school was placed on full lockdown. Most students, black and white, either stayed home, or were picked up by parents shortly after the lockdown was imposed. The Jena Times suggested that black parents were to blame for the unrest at the school because of their September 5th gathering had attracted media attention. Principal Scott Windham recommended to an expulsion hearing committee that the three white boys responsible for hanging the nooses in the tree should be expelled from school. On Thursday September 7, 2006, asserting that the nooses were merely a silly prank inspired by a hanging scene in the television min-series "Lonesome Dove," the committee opted for a few days of in-school suspension. The names of the three students were not released to the public for reasons of confidentiality. On Thursday, November 30, 2006, the academic wing of the Jena High School was largely destroyed by a massive fire. Officials strongly suspect arson. Throughout the following weekend, Jena was engulfed by a wave of racially tinged violence. In one incident, a black student was assaulted by a white adult as he entered a predominantly white partly held at the Fair Barn (a large metal building reserved for social events). After being struck in the face without warning, the young black student was assaulted by white students wielding beer bottles and was punched and kicked before adults broke up the fight. It has been reported that the white assailant who threw the first punch was subsequently charged with simple battery (a misdemeanor), but there is no documentary evidence that anyone was charged.Shortly after the lunch hour of Monday, December 4, 2006, a fight between a white student and a black student reportedly ended with the white student (Justin Barker, later arrested for having a rifle with 13 bullets in his truck in the school parking lot) being knocked to the floor. Several black students reportedly attacked the white student as he lay unconscious. Because the incident took place in a crowded area and was over in a matter of seconds eye witness accounts vary widely. Written statements from students closest to the scene (in space and time) suggest that the incident was sparked by an angry exchange in the gymnasium moments before in which the black student assaulted at the Fair Barn was taunted for having his “ass whipped.” Justin Barker, the victim of the attack, is close friends of the boys who have admitted to hanging the nooses. Within an hour of the fight, six black students were arrested and charged aggravated battery. According to The Jena Times, at least a dozen teachers subsequently threatened a “sick-out” if discipline was not restored to the school. According to the Alexandria Town Talk, District Attorney Reed Walters responded to the teachers' threat by upping the charges on the six boys to attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy to commit second-degree murder—charges carrying a maximum sentence of life in prison.

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 3:57:16 PM   
SusanofO


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Aren't the accused assaulters all juveniles? Given that this is a high school, and that nobody was seriously injured (by that I mean they aren't currently hospitalized, haven't been parlyzed or killed) then it would seem to me suspension (or expulsion) would be an effective enough punishment.

Yes - the charges do smack of definite Racism (to me). But maybe I don't have all the "facts", I dunno. Arson on this level seems fairly serious (to me), as does assualt.

I went to a private high school - and whenever the school didn't want to deal with people who seemed to want to engage in violent or anti-social behavior, they just booted them out the door and told them they were not welcome to ever come back (and I am referring to both the white and the blacks, in this case, who may have caused any violence).

A school is a place for learning, period. This kind of thing just shouldn't be happening, and if it does, maybe expelling these folks would send a strong message. If I was the Prinicipal, I'd investigate, and then just expell any wrong-doers (black or white) - all of them - and that would be the end of it.

As far as the Principal's responsibility - as far as I see it, it is to ensure that the school has an atmosphere conducive to learning - which cannot happen if violence is constantly going on.

Anyone who didn't like it would of course be free to enroll somewhere else, instead (like maybe an "Alternative" high school for juvenile delinquents).

Nooses are completely inappropriate - but then so was the student response to them, IMO. You may as well get over-wrought over someone calling someone else "fat" or "stupid". Get over all of the race talk (this goes for whites and blacks) and get back to the books!

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/4/2007 4:24:09 PM >


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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 4:01:34 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

It's about whiteness.

When you're white, you're less likely to get charged and, if you do get charged, you more likely to get charged with a less weighty crime.


Blaakmaan,
Really? So if the incident at Duke occurred at the Alpha Phi Alpha rush party instead of at the lacrosse club bash the result would have been the different?

quote:

This case is just ONE OF MANY where the criminal justice system is trying to run some Black males into prison over some bullshit!


Definition of "bullshit":
quote:

Barker was taken to the hospital with injuries to both eyes and ears as well as cuts. His right eye had blood clots, said his mother, Kelli Barker Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/04/bell.jena.six/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail 


If you and I, (assuming you are black) tested and got the same score on the LA Fireman's test - you would be hired first because of your race? That's considered 'politically correct'. You don't believe this sort of  legislated discrimination generates any "PC Whiplash"?

If you earn a high position at a Fortune 500 company do you like the idea that there are some people, you'll never know which ones working and doing business with you, who believe that you got your position as a result of some EEO hiring promotion program?

If you kick my ass when you see me - you're the better man and potential can get arrested for assault. If I happen to kick your ass - I'm all of the above but also potentially guilty of a 'hate crime'.  Any problem with that?

Either you want to equality or you need and want to be more equal by law.

btw - The "concurrent sentence" comment was a sarcastic method of addressing an irrelevant tangent point made by the reporter in the news segment and cited as incongruous by a previous poster.

Update:
quote:

JENA, La. (AP) — Prosecutors on Tuesday reduced the attempted murder charges against two more teenagers among the "Jena Six," a group of black high school students who were arrested following an attack on a white schoolmate.
Five of the teens were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder, carrying sentences of up to 80 years in prison. The sixth faces undisclosed juvenile charges. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hEDGACsk9ZRgdFmzTA-FtR5-3LdQ


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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 4:38:38 PM   
Online4Abuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

It's about whiteness.

When you're white, you're less likely to get charged and, if you do get charged, you more likely to get charged with a less weighty crime.


Blaakmaan,
Really? So if the incident at Duke occurred at the Alpha Phi Alpha rush party instead of at the lacrosse club bash the result would have been the different?

quote:

This case is just ONE OF MANY where the criminal justice system is trying to run some Black males into prison over some bullshit!


Definition of "bullshit":
quote:

Barker was taken to the hospital with injuries to both eyes and ears as well as cuts. His right eye had blood clots, said his mother, Kelli Barker Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/04/bell.jena.six/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail 


If you and I, (assuming you are black) tested and got the same score on the LA Fireman's test - you would be hired first because of your race? That's considered 'politically correct'. You don't believe this sort of  legislated discrimination generates any "PC Whiplash"?

If you earn a high position at a Fortune 500 company do you like the idea that there are some people, you'll never know which ones working and doing business with you, who believe that you got your position as a result of some EEO hiring promotion program?

If you kick my ass when you see me - you're the better man and potential can get arrested for assault. If I happen to kick your ass - I'm all of the above but also potentially guilty of a 'hate crime'.  Any problem with that?

Either you want to equality or you need and want to be more equal by law.

btw - The "concurrent sentence" comment was a sarcastic method of addressing an irrelevant tangent point made by the reporter in the news segment and cited as incongruous by a previous poster.

Update:
quote:

JENA, La. (AP) — Prosecutors on Tuesday reduced the attempted murder charges against two more teenagers among the "Jena Six," a group of black high school students who were arrested following an attack on a white schoolmate.
Five of the teens were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder, carrying sentences of up to 80 years in prison. The sixth faces undisclosed juvenile charges. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hEDGACsk9ZRgdFmzTA-FtR5-3LdQ




Very well worded, alot nicer than I was thinking of being.  In this country racisim is a big problem.  The way I see it is that in the black world all racism is white on black, yet the reality is that a big majority of this rasicm (both personal and political and judicial) is black on white.  If these boys had been white and attacked a black kid at 6 to 1 and didnt see a court room all, hell would have been paid.  Call out Al and the NAACP!  But since its black on white its all "oh they are just kids" lets slap them on the wrist and let them go.  Personally, it doesnt matter.  With the anti-bullying legislation in place, every kid who attacks another in school is attacking out of anger and hate and should therefore be charged criminally.  Ask me the same question 6 years ago or so and my answer would have been different.  Times change...its the fact of life in America now days (probably everywhere else too, but I dont live there so I cant speak for it).  Many many years ago if someone would have suggested we put metal detectors in the schools people would have laughed them out of the building, today people are begging for more to be put in.  No amount of arguing on the matter will make what happened any nicer, nor will it turn back time and undo it.  All children, black white asian mid eastern ect, need to be taught that if you cant get along and keep your personal feelings within a controllable level then you will be punished by the court system (though personally I advocate getting rid of jails all together and implimenting a public caneing system). 

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 4:42:14 PM   
SusanofO


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I just think all of them should be expelled, period, black or white, who were involved in this in any way. If they have a problem with Racism (from either perspective) then IMO, they should be peacefully protest-marching in the public streets on week-ends, not disrupting the school day of people who actually are there trying to learn something.

This type of behavior simply has no place in a high school.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/4/2007 4:45:32 PM >


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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 6:05:47 PM   
popeye1250


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This isn't about "race" it's about behavior.

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RE: curious - 9/4/2007 9:26:45 PM   
IrishMist


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Now that I have read what I could find on this piece of shit story ( please excuse that but, well, it fits ), my take
 
I said before and I will say again…this whole thing stinks. And not just from the basis of racism on either side but…I think BOTH sides are lying through their teeth.
 
We have a tree that traditionally only white kids sit under. Are you telling me that in all that time that this tree has been there that no person OTHER THAN A WHITE, has sat under it?
I don’t think so. Sorry, but, it’s just too much of a stretch to believe for one minute.
 
Next…these black kids had to ask permission to sit in a public place, under a public tree?
Give me a break.
 
Next, we have the ropes. Which just happen to be the same color as the school colors.
/scratches head in confusion over this one
 
What REALLY gets me though is that the kid who was supposedly ALMOST KILLED ( I mean after all, they charged these kids originally with attempted murder )…the kid that was almost killed walked out of the hospital not 3 hours later with almost no injuries except for a bruised eye and cheek.
/is really scratching her head over this one
 
I have been in law enforcement long enough to smell shit when I see it.


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RE: curious - 9/5/2007 3:10:29 AM   
nmjardine


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Irish Mist, I suspect you have never attended school in the South. My high school in North Carolina had spaces that were between class hang outs for certain groups of people. The Fish Pond was the hang out for preppy white students; the Smoking Ramp was where the hippies grouped; blacks and athletes hung out in the main entry hallway. If you knew someone's social status, you knew where to find them between classes.

The principal had recommended expelling the first troublemakers--the white boys who hung the noose. He was overruled by a school board committee who opted for in-school suspension, pretty much a slap on the wrist. The committee decided the boys got the idea from Lonesome Dove; no racial connotations whatsoever. One of the black boys who is charged was attacked by a white adult (albeit off of school grounds) and beaten with a beer bottle. The adult was arrested, but not charged. A portion of the school was burned, but no one has been arrested for that. The same boy who was attacked by an adult was charged with stealing a gun after another white boy pointed it at him (it was unloaded at the time) as the black kid and some of his friends angrily approached him; the black boy managed to wrestle it away from the white boy--hence, he stole it. The white boy wasn't charged with anything.

Jena has a history of being a town that was run by the KKK. The blacks there say they have put up with a lot of racism, but when nothing was done to the white kids who hung the noose, it finally became too much. Many people, both black and white, say that if the white boys had been expelled for hanging the noose, the trouble would've probably ended there.

And how can anyone say this has nothing to do with racism when, even though the attorney general knew the white boy had not been seriously injured and the fight lasted for only a few seconds, he chose to charge the black youths with attempted murder?

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RE: curious - 9/5/2007 3:15:27 AM   
nmjardine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Online4Abuse
Very well worded, alot nicer than I was thinking of being.  In this country racisim is a big problem.  The way I see it is that in the black world all racism is white on black, yet the reality is that a big majority of this rasicm (both personal and political and judicial) is black on white.  If these boys had been white and attacked a black kid at 6 to 1 and didnt see a court room all, hell would have been paid.  Call out Al and the NAACP!  But since its black on white its all "oh they are just kids" lets slap them on the wrist and let them go.  Personally, it doesnt matter.  With the anti-bullying legislation in place, every kid who attacks another in school is attacking out of anger and hate and should therefore be charged criminally.  Ask me the same question 6 years ago or so and my answer would have been different.  Times change...its the fact of life in America now days (probably everywhere else too, but I dont live there so I cant speak for it).  Many many years ago if someone would have suggested we put metal detectors in the schools people would have laughed them out of the building, today people are begging for more to be put in.  No amount of arguing on the matter will make what happened any nicer, nor will it turn back time and undo it.  All children, black white asian mid eastern ect, need to be taught that if you cant get along and keep your personal feelings within a controllable level then you will be punished by the court system (though personally I advocate getting rid of jails all together and implimenting a public caneing system). 


Ok. What would you recommend for the white kids?

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RE: curious - 9/5/2007 3:18:23 AM   
nmjardine


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quote:

You don't believe this sort of legislated discrimination generates any "PC Whiplash"?


I'm confused. Is "PC Whiplash" supposed to justify the thought behind hanging the nooses? The attempted murder charges?


< Message edited by nmjardine -- 9/5/2007 3:19:27 AM >

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RE: curious - 9/5/2007 3:38:56 AM   
Cuckme4Life


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**insert sarcasm here**  Where is Jesse and Al ?   Jesse chasing women and Al at his closest all-you-can-eat buffet?

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RE: curious - 9/5/2007 5:33:51 AM   
Archer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Damn!

Don't any Black people post on this site???  Aren't there any Black people on CM.com (other than the ones who are pining for a white dom or sub or switch or whatever)?

Yes, I've been following the Jenna 6 story.  It's been in the news for some time now, although I will admit I didn't hear about it last year, either.  Apparently it just started getting big coverage in the last few months.

http://www.freethejena6.org/

This case is just ONE OF MANY where the criminal justice system is trying to run some Black males into prison over some bullshit!

This very much reminds me of the case of Genarlow Wilson, a Black male, who was charged with RAPE (!) in North Carolina, but convicted only of  AGGREVATED CHILD MOLESTATION (!) for engaging in an act of CONSENSUAL oral sex with a 15-year-old white girl when he was 17.  He was sentenced to ELEVEN YEARS in prison (of which TEN YEARS is MANDATORY)!  His sentence is under appeal.

The full story:

http://www.wilsonappeal.com/
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/21/opinion/21thu4.html?ex=1324357200&en=d3a8cf6d030c60b7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Now, you tell me.  When have you EVER heard of a WHITE teenager being charged with or convicted of ANYTHING for an act of consensual oral sex with another teenager?  I know I have NEVER heard of such a thing, and I have also never heard of a Black teenager being charged with such a thing for consensual oral sex with another Black teenager!

It's about whiteness.

When you're white, you're less likely to get charged and, if you do get charged, you more likely to get charged with a less weighty crime.

When you're not, you more likely to get charged, and if you are, it's more likely to be the weightiest charge the DA can dig up!

And, pardon me, but how in the world can a school suspension and a prison term "run concurrent"???

"PC Whiplash Effect" (whatever the hell THAT is supposed to be...) my ass!



You loose alot of credibility when you cite cases wrongly
Wilson case is in Georgia not North Carolina.
And I could swear the girlfreind was a 15 year old black girl. (Not white as you claim) I believe you are mixing this case up with the Marcus Dixon case.
The thing that got him Genarlo Wilson in such trouble was the idiocy of video taping the girl.  Mom's tend to get real mad when you have tapes of their innocent little girls drunk and performing sex acts at a party. The Original Rape charge was based on the report of another young black girl.

BTW I agree the law was in error they have since fixed the law they however screwed up in that they didn't at the same time make the law retro active.

If you want your outrage to be taken seriously you really should make sure you have the facts of the cases straight. Otherwise you tend to make yourself look like someone who is howling about injustices that never occured.



(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: curious - 9/5/2007 5:52:11 AM   
favesclava


Posts: 1608
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
this is why i teach my puerto rican kids the importance of being  law abiding. and also the importance of ,if you have to do something against any rules, know that consequenses might have to be paid. so try and do it alone , no witnesses .someone will always snitch to cover their asses. and if caught , well you knew it from the get go.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 20
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