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Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 8:47:04 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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Sorry for the length of this post, but I'm very concerned for my dog, Hobo.

The dog is a 4 year old male, fixed: part lab, part pit bull and maybe a few other breeds to boot, but mostly lab/pit.  The vet recently pronounced him in perfect physical health aside from an unusual wear of his canines for his age. He doesn't have an ounce of flab on him and his coat gleams. His tail is almost always wagging. He appears to be very happy and content in the home and, except for sitting on the furniture and being in the kitchen, has free reign throughout the house. He's walked 3 to 4 times a day and goes on 2 - 3 car trips a week. His stool is healthy and free of parasites and he is current on all vaccinations.

Some background on him: We got him from the animal shelter the beginning of April and he had been there for 6 days after being dropped off by a family (with children) who owned him for 7 months. The family stated they gave him to the shelter because of a move to a non-pet apartment. His coat was dirty and he was flabby and out of shape when we got him. Prior to that, his previous owners only had him five months and gave a similiar reason for giving him up. As far as the shelter knows, he's never been with one family for longer than a year.

Himself and I believe that at some time during his life, he was hit or physically disciplined on the head, probably by a man, because of his flinch reflex when Himself goes to pat his head. He will cower when Himself is just being affectionate with him. We don't know for sure this happened or that it was a man, but it seems likely as this never happens when I pat him and he never cowers from me. He's also very, very protective of me and is only now getting used to Himself spanking me and .. um, stuff.  Mostly he ignores our play now and is fine with it as long as he can watch. (Okay, so he's a perv dog.. what are ya gonna do?)  I'm his main caregiver and have been since we got him.

Okay, so here's the problem. This dog hates to be left alone, even for a moment. He follows me everywhere, even into the bathroom and if he can't see either Himself or I, he starts to panic and cry. He has major abandonment issues and has not yet learned to trust that we will always be there for him and doesn't know that he has a home for life. We have tried to ween him off our presence bit by bit but the poor thing just cries and barks until he sees us again. We can't allow that to happen for hours at a time because we do have neighbors and it's not fair to them and it completely stresses the dog. 

I am home all day long, so he is used to having me around. He's 'okay' (but not at his happiest) if Himself is there and will sit by the front window and await my return (from shopping etc) Also, he basically won't eat or even take a drink of water if one of us is not right by him and he won't go to bed by himself. While he's eating, he will constantly look up to make sure we are still in the room and if we leave the room, he'll leave his food behind to follow us. We tried to put his food out and leave him alone figuring when he got hungry enough, he'd go eat and the dog wouldn't eat for three days until we went to go stand by him. He'd rather starve than be left alone.

I've never had a dog who had issues this bad before and I'm wondering if this is something that will, eventually, ease up as he gains confidence and trust in us or is the poor thing scarred for life because of his past? There are going to be times where he's going to have to stay alone and I certainly don't want to make things harder on him than they have to be, but I'm truly at a loss as to what to do about it. (I suggested a companion dog, but Himself said no.) Himself and I don't believe it's safe to muzzle an animal without supervision and our vet confirmed this was not wise. So far, every time we've wanted to go out, we time it to coincide with his grooming schedule and that gives us 4 or 5 hours to be out and about while he's getting all gussied up. That's about every 3 weeks or so.

Any suggestions on what I can do with this animal to get him more secure? Has anyone who has been in a simliar situation found any solutions to make things less traumatic for their pet?

He's got a blanket which he adores and his favorite toys are his rope and his tennis ball so if there's a way I can utilize those in lessening his stress, I'm happy to do so. I'm willing to try anything short of allowing him to bark and cry thereby disturbing the neighbors and stressing him, so just leaving him to 'get over' it is going to have to be a very last resort and not one which I think is going to be effective with this animal who already has been abandoned so many times in his life.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Celeste





_____________________________

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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 8:55:22 PM   
Owner59


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Can you get him a buddy(another dog)?

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 8:55:50 PM   
Alumbrado


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Two things will make a dog feel secure... their pack, and a lair.  Clearly your dog has established his place in your pack, so the departure of pack members is going to be a problem, since he has no clue as to whether anyone is ever coming back.

Other than his favorite blanket, what have you done to recreate a den or lair for him to use while you are gone?
I haven't done crate training on an adult dog, but he needs some comfort, and an empty house or even room is not it for a dog.

IMHO, there aren't going to be any shorcuts, and people logic will not apply.
Be prepared to be ruthless in the name of heading off bigger problems later, and get your dog used to your departure by providing him with a crate, and sticking him in it while you leave...and do NOT give in to a pitiful performance by coming back... that would be the dog training you, instead of the other way around.

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 8:57:07 PM   
Aileen68


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You need the Dog Whisperer. 

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 8:58:12 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Can you get him a buddy(another dog)?


That was my suggestion, but Himself said no to it. I still think it's a good idea.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:02:17 PM   
DiurnalVampire


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From: Nashville, TN
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Separation anxiety is not unusual in animals.
Firs tthing you have to do is give him treats when you go out, and do so for short trips at first. Leave him for 20 min, and then give him lots of attention and treats when you get back. Give this afew days, and then make it a little longer.  Give small treats if he barks, give lots of treats if he doesnt. Create the association that no barking = treats and that might help some.  Also, the more times you go and come back, the more the dog will realize you are not going forever.  Its a learned reaction, so teach the response you want.

Hope this helps at least a little
DV



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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:04:35 PM   
minta


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you said that he was walked often, but does he ever get much time off his lead to just plain run? i have a dog who gets  very antsy and nervous when she doesnt get to run every couple of days.

do you ever try to give him a verbal repremends? have you tried any kind of obience training.. sounds to me like he just needs a little confidance and something else to do besides focus on you all the time.

good luck.

minta

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:09:34 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Two things will make a dog feel secure... their pack, and a lair.  Clearly your dog has established his place in your pack, so the departure of pack members is going to be a problem, since he has no clue as to whether anyone is ever coming back.

Other than his favorite blanket, what have you done to recreate a den or lair for him to use while you are gone?


Nothing really. He's got free reign and run of the entire house. The house itself is 2100 square feet, two story's, so that's a lot of space. He's actually okay with Michael leaving, it's me leaving that kicks in his major issues and both of us leaving which causes the crying and barking until we return. The longest we've left is 30 mins (we were right outside in the front yard where he couldn't see us) and he didn't stop barking the entire time.


quote:

I haven't done crate training on an adult dog, but he needs some comfort, and an empty house or even room is not it for a dog.


According to the paperwork we got from the shelter, he has been crate trained so this may be an option we hadn't considered. He seems to like being in enclosed spaces and quite often hangs out in the closet or under my desk.

quote:

IMHO, there aren't going to be any shorcuts, and people logic will not apply.
Be prepared to be ruthless in the name of heading off bigger problems later, and get your dog used to your departure by providing him with a crate, and sticking him in it while you leave...and do NOT give in to a pitiful performance by coming back... that would be the dog training you, instead of the other way around.


We can but try. The barking, if it's for short term, would probably be tolerated by the neighbors, but incessant barking isn't going to be appreciated by anyone. I'm not sure how much time we're going to be able to allow him to bark before we have to pay a price and I don't want to create bad feelings from the neighbors. Everyone around here has dogs and I'm sure they'd understand in the short term, but some lady already had the cops at her house for allowing her dog to bark for over three hours and I don't want to have to put anyone through that again.

The crate idea is something we can try though. Thanks for the idea and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:10:33 PM   
BitaTruble


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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

You need the Dog Whisperer. 


I'll have to google that. ::laughs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Aileen68)
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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:11:26 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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I have a Pit Bull, who seems to have the same problem, different life circumstances.   I've had him since he was old enough to leave the litter. From day one, he'd cry all day when he was alone, howling and whining.  I know this because I'd get a call from my landlord telling me to come get my dog, he was driving everyone crazy.

He's dug up my carpet trying to get to me if I leave him out of a room, or leave for the day without bringing him with me.  He follows me everywhere, and gets distressed when I or my son are out of his eyesight.  I was advised to turn my spare room into 'his space' by providing familiar items.  The idea being that he would be trained to go to his room when I leave for the day. 

He has no reason to have abandonment issues but his behaviors are similar to the problem you have with your own dog. 

I'm hoping that turning my spare room into "his space" will work.  If you find a solution, let me know.


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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:11:36 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Separation anxiety is not unusual in animals.
Firs tthing you have to do is give him treats when you go out, and do so for short trips at first. Leave him for 20 min, and then give him lots of attention and treats when you get back. Give this afew days, and then make it a little longer.  Give small treats if he barks, give lots of treats if he doesnt. Create the association that no barking = treats and that might help some.  Also, the more times you go and come back, the more the dog will realize you are not going forever.  Its a learned reaction, so teach the response you want.

Hope this helps at least a little
DV




We can try that as well. He's not real big on treats, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Maybe that in combination with a crate as Al suggested would work. Thanks for the idea!

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:14:02 PM   
minta


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Joined: 5/22/2007
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actually he has done many episodes of his show about this exact thing...if you have tivo its worth a try and getting him a crate is a great idea, everyone needs a place to hide every once in awhile.

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:16:06 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: minta

you said that he was walked often, but does he ever get much time off his lead to just plain run? i have a dog who gets  very antsy and nervous when she doesnt get to run every couple of days.
''

We have a leash law in Ramsey, so he's not allowed to be off leash and with the pit in him, I don't trust him not to go after another dog or something. I run him as much as I am able, but I'm not very fast and don't have a lot of endurance. He does get to run inside the house when we play fetch and he runs up and down the stairs at least a couple of dozen times a day.

quote:

do you ever try to give him a verbal repremends? have you tried any kind of obience training.. sounds to me like he just needs a little confidance and something else to do besides focus on you all the time.

good luck.

minta


He's been through obedience training (according to his paperwork) and knows about a half a dozen commands (sit, heel, down, fetch, drop etc) which he executes quickly and well.. except for 'stay'. He just won't stay if I start to walk away and he can't see me anymore. He knows the command, he just has that selective lab hearing.

Thanks for the response. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:18:36 PM   
BitaTruble


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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I have a Pit Bull, who seems to have the same problem, different life circumstances.   I've had him since he was old enough to leave the litter. From day one, he'd cry all day when he was alone, howling and whining.  I know this because I'd get a call from my landlord telling me to come get my dog, he was driving everyone crazy.

He's dug up my carpet trying to get to me if I leave him out of a room, or leave for the day without bringing him with me.  He follows me everywhere, and gets distressed when I or my son are out of his eyesight.  I was advised to turn my spare room into 'his space' by providing familiar items.  The idea being that he would be trained to go to his room when I leave for the day. 

He has no reason to have abandonment issues but his behaviors are similar to the problem you have with your own dog. 

I'm hoping that turning my spare room into "his space" will work.  If you find a solution, let me know.




Hmm.. interesting. We actually have a spare room we could use as well. I'll see if Himself will let me turn it into the dog's room and see how it goes. It's got a great big sliding glass door so he'd be able to look outside and see all the wild life and maybe that will keep him entertained for those times where we have no choice but to leave him alone.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:22:13 PM   
BitaTruble


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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

You need the Dog Whisperer. 


Ok, I googled and found his website and it looks great. Thanks Aileen!

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Aileen68)
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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:35:56 PM   
MsD


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so do I ... unfortunately the only applications he's currently accepting are from folks in some sort of dog industry ... groomer, dog walker, etc  ... *sighs* gotta smart, beautiful, loving, out-of-control/high energy, escape artist yr-old red heeler m'self ...

bita, have you done searches for trainers in your area that work from a behaviour/psychology aspect vs. obedience/clicker aspect?  maybe ck with the shelter you got him from for a referral.  your vet didn't recommend anyone? 

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:40:44 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsD

so do I ... unfortunately the only applications he's currently accepting are from folks in some sort of dog industry ... groomer, dog walker, etc  ... *sighs* gotta smart, beautiful, loving, out-of-control/high energy, escape artist yr-old red heeler m'self ...

bita, have you done searches for trainers in your area that work from a behaviour/psychology aspect vs. obedience/clicker aspect?  maybe ck with the shelter you got him from for a referral.  your vet didn't recommend anyone? 


We didn't ask the vet about this, but it's on the question list when his yearly comes up the first of October. We are just now starting to research the problem as we were hoping that our constant love and attention would help dispel his insecurity. So far, that hasn't worked.

I all good with getting him a doggy therapist, but not sure how Himself will feel about it. We are just leaving to go do his nightly walk, so it's something we can talk about and I'll get his feedback on the issue.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:48:48 PM   
MsD


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our vet has made some valuable suggestions (oops, one was a dog buddy! LOL) which have helped tone bocephus down a bit, but because of his escape artist moves & his terrorizing my horse, I was doing some searches on those things myself earlier tonight ... how ironic your article posting tonight as well *s*  best of luck to y'all!  I really hope you can help him with this

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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 9:51:02 PM   
soultoshare


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My dog came from a similar background as yours, he was severely abused, and flinched when any stranger reached over his head, to the point of snapping.  When I got him, i was working a lot of OT, and while he didn't bark, he sunk into a depression that broke my heart.  He'd follow me around constantly, so closely that I'd turn around and literally step on him.  And Lord help me if I ever pulled a suitcase out of a closet....even tho I never once left without him, he'd stress out something fierce.  It was like he was terrified I'd leave him like everyone else did.

If the dog solution isn't acceptable, how about a cat?  I got one for my dog, and he was tickled to death!  It gave him someone else there during the day that he could play with, and did wonders for his depression.  Of course, make sure he won't make mush out of said cat.

If the dog is crate trained, try putting him in it and leaving.  Put his blanket and toys in there w/him, and see if that works.  Since he likes the closet, that may be enough comfort for him.

It sounds like he gets plenty of exercise, and play time.  Not sure what to offer for a soultion about the food issue.....overall, just a large dose of patience is what it sounds like you'll need.  Good luck!

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**********************************************

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.



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RE: Dog: Insecure pet problem - 8/28/2007 11:21:32 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


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From: P'burgh PA
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My rescue whippet Mr Ben was a velcro dog as well. Understandable since he was quite sick when he first came here and I was doing the majority of his care.

If he's been crate trained I would definitely try crating him. If he's hanging out in  your closet or under your desk then he's looking for a lair that has your scent on it. Try putting in an old pillow you don't use or a hot water bottle when you're leaving.

The other thing I found that worked successfully was to take a few old tshirts I didn't wear anymore except for during spring cleaning and put them in the crate. I would wear one to bed a couple nights in a row and then put it in his crate when I had to leave for a few hours so that my scent was on it. Might want to try this with more than one blanket as well. They tend to want to burrow in their lairs and more than one blanket with your scent on it might help. I would take a few things out every few days to wash and sleep with then return them to his crate. This seemed to stop the continuous howling whenever I left to go run errands or to the store.

He also had an affinity for socks and pantyhose. Figures my dog would be a freak with a foot fetish!

I would also try contacting the shelter or rescue you brought him home from for advice. They are very experienced in these types of situations and may have resources that might help as well. Best of luck to you and Hobo. Time, patience and a great deal of love are the best remedies. Hang in there.

As for the eating I had the opposite problem. Due to Mr Ben being left alone for two weeks by his previous owner without food he would gorge whenever he could get to it as if he never knew when his next meal would be. I had to end up only giving him enough food when and where I wanted him to eat. I don't know if you have tried only feeding him when you're in the kitchen while cooking dinner and try leaving sporadically (and very quietly) for small increments of time while he's occupied with eating. Increase the time slowly.

< Message edited by SDFemDom4cuck -- 8/28/2007 11:29:25 PM >


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She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

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