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question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rope bo... - 8/26/2007 1:32:12 AM

Lordandmaster

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I have a terminological question for those of you who are knowledgeable about Japanese rope bondage. The question has to do with the term "nawa jujun," which I see in a lot of English-language sites about shibari, etc. Supposedly, the "nawa jujun" is the person who submits (jujun) to the rope (nawa).

Now I assume "nawa jujun" must be 縄従順 in Japanese. But that makes no sense! "Jujun" (じゅうじゅん) refers to obedience or submissiveness--in other words, to a state, not to a person. If you saw 縄従順 on a page, you'd basically understand what it must refer to, but it doesn't seem like an idiomatic way of referring to someone who submits to being tied with rope.

So the question is...is "nawa jujun" really a term that's used in Japanese, or is it just invented in Americanized shibari jargon? If you Google "縄従順," you get absolutely no hits. That makes me think it's not a real Japanese term.

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 1:40:48 AM

Aileen68

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Considering that I don't have any kind of Japanese language downloads of any kind, all I see in your post is little squares instead of Japanese characters...so no help.
And I know my grammar is atrocious, but it is 4:40 in the morning.

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 4:33:10 AM

Guilty1974

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quote:

So the question is...is "nawa jujun" really a term that's used in Japanese, or is it just invented in Americanized shibari jargon? If you Google "縄従順," you get absolutely no hits. That makes me think it's not a real Japanese term.

As far as I know from people who use(d) the word nawa jujun, it makes more sense than the more common term encounterd on English sites "dorei". Whether or not it is used in Japan, I don't know. It doesn't really matter to me anyway, in Japan many people call "Shibari" "Bondage". because it sounds more cool.

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 4:57:48 AM

mnottertail

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Lam, I really don't think it is correct in the sense of a tradition. One of the problems that exist is the great amount of scientific like study of many things attributed to asian cultures and falling into the trap of using that living language like you would latin in the medical field. I gave up and shut that shit off years ago, because the simple concept of inside and outside twist hands (ura gyaku and omote gyaku and I don't even know which is which anymore) has about 10,000 names and the first thing anyone in the know says is they have to see it spelled in japanese or chinese to know what you are really talking about (those that can read it)........then seeing it, still often go----I am not sure.

Call it what you want, the Peach will still think you are the bomb.

Hey look, since you can read that spaghetti, Lam......you will like this book.

http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=16539

Cordially,

Ron

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 8:57:33 AM

Lordandmaster

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"Dorei" (奴隸) actually makes perfect sense. It means "slave."

Edited to add: Oh, I forgot to respond to Aileen. Basically, it has to do with the technically correct term for bitches who like to get tied up with rope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

As far as I know from people who use(d) the word nawa jujun, it makes more sense than the more common term encounterd on English sites "dorei".

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 8/26/2007 9:15:58 AM >

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 1:15:33 PM

Guilty1974

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

"Dorei" (奴隸) actually makes perfect sense. It means "slave."

Except that - again, as far as I've heard - it's not used by Japanese rope guys.

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 1:18:28 PM

Lordandmaster

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That's probably true.

Is there anyone conversant with rope BDSM in Japan who could weigh in?

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 1:27:35 PM

MHOO314

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I wish I could help, but the instructions are always in Japanese!

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 1:30:15 PM

Guilty1974

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quote:

Is there anyone conversant with rope BDSM in Japan who could weigh in?

I don't know. I know quite a few people (most online, some r/l) with at least some contacts in Japan or who have visited Japan for rope lessons and/or performances, but I haven't seen them around here. Perhaps you could ask your question at a more specialised forum (shibarinetwork or adultropeart - both at yahoogroups might get you more results).

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 1:31:02 PM

kyraofMists

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Have not got a clue, but Midori has a yahoo group and you may be able find the answer to your question there.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/divamidori/

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 8/26/2007 2:28:47 PM

littlebitxxx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Edited to add: Oh, I forgot to respond to Aileen. Basically, it has to do with the technically correct term for bitches who like to get tied up with rope.

Have no clue, LordandMaster, but the SAM in me couldn't resist jumping in....I just call me happy...or demo model...or knotty brat...or harness display...or... ;)

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RE: question for those knowledgeable about Japanese rop... - 9/14/2007 3:10:33 PM

Esinem

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You could try posting the question on AdultRopeArt (Yahoo Groups). I have neard both terms but as to their usage in Japan, I don't know. However, 'shibari' means tying/binding in a general sense, not necessarily only rope. I think it is more correct to use the term 'kinbaku'.

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