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RE: is there a always an alpha


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RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/12/2005 5:35:22 PM   
LadyMindParadox


Posts: 9
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		There's one general topic related to your posts that's really nagging at me...

Am I correct in deducing that your Master and his wife/slave had a relationship before you entered T/their household? Were T/they M/s oriented?

If so, how do the house run then? Who cleaned?

It seems that maybe getting a little perspective on live before you moved in might help.

I mean, heck, maybe she's irked and unhappy that she has a sister. Who knows? People can be totally unpredictable, even subs, slaves, and sister slaves.

Must be my day for scratching my head.

LadyMindParadox

partner to LordMindParadox

(in reply to teapaw)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/12/2005 9:14:25 PM   
teapaw


Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Yes they did have a M/s relationship for about six years now. No one cleaned, they got by by all the dishes being dirty and cleaning the one you need. LOL ...There are many things I should have asked about before I moved in but I cant change the past only look for ways to improve the furutre.
Thank you...:)
pamela


_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to LadyMindParadox)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/12/2005 9:35:30 PM   
teapaw


Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I am speaking of my sister slave, and we are all (Master,ss and I) in a poly relationship. Where by I mean that Master and I, Master and her and her and I all have a different dynamic of the relatioship. Master is Master he is in charge and we serve him. Her and I have a differnet dynamic to our relationship. Being sister slave and all. We all are open (ok with other partners) with permission only. Any one of us had a right to vito anyother partner *masters wishes*.
I have never heard of a multi slave relationship with out an Alpha. In this household there is not one so it is a learning experience for us all. I am also Masters frist second slave (though we all getting married in October). We are all hoping to have a long happy (growing old together type) poly M/s relationship. **grin**
Since my first post we have all been talking about what we are good at and what we are not. It was hard at first because Master asssigned us jobs we are not good at (me banking and $ sutff and her cleaning and caring for the animals) so we switched. Things are much better now. Her adn I are also BOTH looking to get jobs, both parttime and in our perspective feilds. As we talked about working (need money for our 3,000 bigger bed, 80'' by 98'' WOO HOO) the more we felt that the one working would end up being the more doninant one. Instead of one getting a full time job both are getting p/t jobs. Its wonderful!! Communnicaton is so very important, not always easy but well worth it!...
Thank you so very much for your posts and your opinions....it means allot to know Im not the only out thetre having issues with these types of changes.
pamela


_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/13/2005 4:19:26 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline 		YES, YES, and YES.
Sociologists call it the "Iron Law of Oligarchy:.
Over time, all social groups will find their alphas. Read "Lord of the Flies" for a very good description of how this occurs. Of if you are not into long reads, turn to a discussion of what happens when a disaster strikes a group. The crash of the plane in the 80s, which left dozens of people stranded in the mountains is a good read. The literature is full of examples and there are no exceptions. Even primitive groups that anthropologists had thought had egalitarian values, found their alphas. It is a part of your human existance. Get over it.

_____________________________

Master Jerry


(in reply to MsPurrmeow)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/14/2005 1:44:38 AM   
teapaw


Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		thanks I have :)

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"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/19/2005 12:08:54 PM   
Carierose


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/10/2005
Status: offline 		I would suggest that you really need to talk to her about your issues.. And remember its not what you say.. Its how you say it..
Remember in a situation like that you have to start out telling the person the positive things... Like example. I really like this and that about you. but I was hopeing we could talk about some concerns we might both have (keeping in mind if you have them she has them.. everything is a two way street). Tell her you are willing to listen to any concerns she has for you.. If she is willing to do the same.. And that just because you both have concerns or even just one of you do doesn't mean there is not love or feelings there but you think it would be better to share them than to let them fester.
remember. again.. Its not what you say.. its really really is how you say it..
I wish you luck on your talk... But do talk.. If you don't it will only make things build up.

Carierose

(in reply to teapaw)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/19/2005 3:35:01 PM   
junkyard


Posts: 107
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45
Sociologists call it the "Iron Law of Oligarchy:.


What, no comforting lie - just the bald truth?

Amazing!

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/19/2005 3:52:09 PM   
CitizenWolf


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline 		Just because someone is lazy and your master ignores it doesn't make them an "alpha" anything. It makes your master lazy and her too. An "alpha" female would be looked up to as a fellow master and not as a fellow slave who is shown favor. She would be kind of like middle management. Now if he starts letting her sleep in his bed and tells the rest of you to sleep on the floor on a consistant basis then you may see an alpha develop out of it. But right now she's just an uncorrected lazy bitch.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/20/2005 8:07:35 AM   
Kiaban


Posts: 119
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenWolf

Just because someone is lazy and your master ignores it doesn't make them an "alpha" anything. It makes your master lazy and her too. An "alpha" female would be looked up to as a fellow master and not as a fellow slave who is shown favor. She would be kind of like middle management. Now if he starts letting her sleep in his bed and tells the rest of you to sleep on the floor on a consistant basis then you may see an alpha develop out of it. But right now she's just an uncorrected lazy bitch.

Actually if she is what he wants her to be, she is doing her job. Only if it bothers Him does it mean she is really lazy and/ or him as well.
People have different priorities and really thats ok.
To the OP: sounds like you are working through it just fine and that is great ..sometimes we all just need to vent even more than the advice
cheers,
Kiaban

(in reply to CitizenWolf)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/20/2005 3:12:54 PM   
MstrHellsFury


Posts: 388
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		What I see here, IMHO, is not a lazy slave but a lazy Master. Or this could just be the act of having your cake and eating it too for him, that is having two women. I've been in my poly relationship for quite some time and what I don't see here is the groundwork as to who is and what is to be the order of the household. My slave/wife didn't see this as anything but a pleasure to us both, in that vain she assumed the role of the housekeeper. Even before the other was added to the house it was clear her duties were to be to help with expenses. This suited her as well because she expressed she didn't want to quit her job and her income would be to the benifit of the whole. I work almost everyday so on her days off she helps with the housecleaning and cooking and such. All things taken into consideration before during and after the transition and with work on the rough areas, talk, talk and more talk, the blend was without much difficulty. I don't see any of that here. I suggest a sitdown to get priorities set and then see what happens. Of course you may just have entered into a very unorginized household. In that case it doesn't speak well for the leader of it now does it.

(in reply to teapaw)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/20/2005 4:05:54 PM   
CitizenWolf


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kiaban


quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenWolf

Just because someone is lazy and your master ignores it doesn't make them an "alpha" anything. It makes your master lazy and her too. An "alpha" female would be looked up to as a fellow master and not as a fellow slave who is shown favor. She would be kind of like middle management. Now if he starts letting her sleep in his bed and tells the rest of you to sleep on the floor on a consistant basis then you may see an alpha develop out of it. But right now she's just an uncorrected lazy bitch.

Actually if she is what he wants her to be, she is doing her job. Only if it bothers Him does it mean she is really lazy and/ or him as well.
People have different priorities and really thats ok.
To the OP: sounds like you are working through it just fine and that is great ..sometimes we all just need to vent even more than the advice
cheers,
Kiaban



That still does not make her an "alpha female". It just means he doesn't give a shit about what she does. The role of "alpha" implies dominance over others not a lackadaisical attitude.

(in reply to Kiaban)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/21/2005 1:09:20 PM   
Kiaban


Posts: 119
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenWolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kiaban


quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenWolf

Just because someone is lazy and your master ignores it doesn't make them an "alpha" anything. It makes your master lazy and her too. An "alpha" female would be looked up to as a fellow master and not as a fellow slave who is shown favor. She would be kind of like middle management. Now if he starts letting her sleep in his bed and tells the rest of you to sleep on the floor on a consistant basis then you may see an alpha develop out of it. But right now she's just an uncorrected lazy bitch.

Actually if she is what he wants her to be, she is doing her job. Only if it bothers Him does it mean she is really lazy and/ or him as well.
People have different priorities and really thats ok.
To the OP: sounds like you are working through it just fine and that is great ..sometimes we all just need to vent even more than the advice
cheers,
Kiaban



That still does not make her an "alpha female". It just means he doesn't give a shit about what she does. The role of "alpha" implies dominance over others not a lackadaisical attitude.


I agree with the "does not maker her an alpha" part completely

(in reply to CitizenWolf)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/22/2005 6:58:39 PM   
teapaw


Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenWolf

Just because someone is lazy and your master ignores it doesn't make them an "alpha" anything. It makes your master lazy and her too. An "alpha" female would be looked up to as a fellow master and not as a fellow slave who is shown favor. She would be kind of like middle management. Now if he starts letting her sleep in his bed and tells the rest of you to sleep on the floor on a consistant basis then you may see an alpha develop out of it. But right now she's just an uncorrected lazy bitch.


Thats what i was raised with....Apha female, fellow master or the one usually left in charge to handle things when Master was gone...Master wants us to be equal....We all talk about itallot and Im still not sure about things but it helps.....
Bed OMGs we have a bed 80inches by 98 inches its big enough for tons of people...Naw he would never do that...
He just doenst realize what it could be like to have a clean thriving house hold...its never been that way for Him....I have worked hard ot make the house wonderful and he is getting to like it so much he asked me to make a cleaning schedule for the rest of the house...though I still do most of the work which is since i enjoy cleaning....at least sissy and His daughter have learned to pick up after themselves....YIPPYY!!! the power pf communication!!!!....
pamela

_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to CitizenWolf)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/22/2005 7:01:18 PM   
teapaw


Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kiaban
OP: sounds like you are working through it just fine and that is great ..sometimes we all just need to vent even more than the advice
cheers,
Kiaban



YES!!!! sometimes we all need to vent....as its so very nice to get so many different points of view.....even the stuff we dont like to hear but need to.....its almost like having the whip sort my emotions out for me.... I did say ALOMSt....
thanks A/all
pamela

_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to Kiaban)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/22/2005 7:12:26 PM   
teapaw


Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrHellsFury

What I see here, IMHO, is not a lazy slave but a lazy Master. I suggest a sitdown to get priorities set and then see what happens. Of course you may just have entered into a very unorginized household. In that case it doesn't speak well for the leader of it now does it.



Thank you MstrHellsFury.
I am his first second and he is still trying to balance the loving husband and father with Master role (imo) ss and i both have two very different personalilties which I think he also stuggles with...but is getting better at....


There was much communication difficulties at first...He stated this is what he wanted me to do, cook, clean and the rest of the house hold duties. . ss was to be mother to his daughter and deal with $....well ss stated when they were looking for another it was to bring $ in the house and not do the house work etc...so it got all turned around.....After MUCH communication it has all settled down....there are still some details to be worked out but no issues we all love each other and want the same things, just going about them differently....:)
pamela

_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to MstrHellsFury)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/22/2005 7:51:04 PM   
blackwolf99


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		I think that the assumption that there will be a alpha is what poisons many poly relations
Assumptions that the person will be treated or thought of as 'less than'.
Also the assumption of status or seniority on the part of the 'esstablished' sub(s).

Communication is the key
the word 'poly' can be defined as widely as can the term 'bdsm' or the word 'love'.
It means something different to speaker and listener alike. So before you assume you share the same definition - ask. "What does that mean when you say that."
when someone tells you they want you to be part of their poly relationship, dont assume you know what that means - ask. You might be surprised by the answer. It just like any other negotiations in this lifestyle. You can make it whatever you want.


(in reply to teapaw)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: is there a always an alpha - 8/18/2005 7:57:07 AM   
krazysubbiekat


Posts: 145
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		hello...thank you so much for this thread. i have explored poly-relationships before, always as a beta sub. i have found that there will always be an alpa. There will always be the one submissive who has a deeper/longer/more extablished relationship with the Dom or Master. There will always be the submissive who serves more, who has more time for the relationship. When handled with communication, trust, and honesty, serving as a beta can be just as satisfying, just as fulfilling, and just as much fun. Without those things, there can only be discord, jealousy, and unhappiness. IMHO

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(in reply to blackwolf99)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: is there a always an alpha - 8/18/2005 6:59:20 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 634
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

hello...thank you so much for this thread. i have explored poly-relationships before, always as a beta sub. i have found that there will always be an alpa. There will always be the one submissive who has a deeper/longer/more extablished relationship with the Dom or Master. There will always be the submissive who serves more, who has more time for the relationship. When handled with communication, trust, and honesty, serving as a beta can be just as satisfying, just as fulfilling, and just as much fun. Without those things, there can only be discord, jealousy, and unhappiness. IMHO [/q]

I agree that the "alpha" is a common way of running a poly home. I don't agree that there is always an alpha.

quote:

I think that the assumption that there will be a alpha is what poisons many poly relations
Assumptions that the person will be treated or thought of as 'less than'.
Also the assumption of status or seniority on the part of the 'esstablished' sub(s).


I couldn't agree more. Granted the newest submissive would come in not knowing as much about how the house is run or the way we prefer things and in that case I/we expect the more "experienced" submissive to share their wisdom. But never, under any circumstances does one submissive have more of a right to spend time with us, never are they any better or worse then the other.

Jewel

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ShiftedJewel of PhoenixRisen

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: is there a always an alpha - 8/19/2005 5:37:30 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 1379
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

never are they any better or worse then the other.


While I agree with this statement...

quote:

I don't agree that there is always an alpha.


I don't necessarily agree with this one.

While I don't believe it is right for there to be a designated alpha, I do think that there usually is one through a natural progression. No two people in a relationship are ever completely equal and generally one person's personality will be somewhat stronger than the other. The same applies to submissives and slaves. I think that one just naturally takes the lead in most situations.

Further, I believe that in a situation where one slave has been with a family for an extended period of time, that person does have a bit of "seniority" if you will over anyone new coming in. This only stands to reason as the long term person will have earned trust and respect through proven action to a higher degree than someone who has just arrived. I know that on a personal level, if my years of solid service to someone carried no more weight than that of the service of someone who arrived last week, I would be insulted. Of course this is a situation that levels itself over time, but to say that slave 1 who has served you well for 5 years is no more valued to you than slave 2 who came on board last night would, in my opinion, cheapen the hard work, dedication and worth of slave 1.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
erin


There are no victims here.....only volunteers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: is there a always an alpha - 8/19/2005 7:38:22 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 634
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

While I don't believe it is right for there to be a designated alpha, I do think that there usually is one through a natural progression. No two people in a relationship are ever completely equal and generally one person's personality will be somewhat stronger than the other. The same applies to submissives and slaves. I think that one just naturally takes the lead in most situations.

Further, I believe that in a situation where one slave has been with a family for an extended period of time, that person does have a bit of "seniority" if you will over anyone new coming in. This only stands to reason as the long term person will have earned trust and respect through proven action to a higher degree than someone who has just arrived. I know that on a personal level, if my years of solid service to someone carried no more weight than that of the service of someone who arrived last week, I would be insulted. Of course this is a situation that levels itself over time, but to say that slave 1 who has served you well for 5 years is no more valued to you than slave 2 who came on board last night would, in my opinion, cheapen the hard work, dedication and worth of slave 1.


Well put, point made. I in no way meant that there would be the same level of trust in the service of a newcomer... there is also the bond that the senior sub/slave would share with the owners would be stronger... or deeper and because of that and because the senior sub/slave will have proven themselves time and again there would also not be the same level of trust in the newcomers actions, accusations (if there were any) and ability to openly communicate any and all difficulties and opinions. And yes, granted, there will be many things that a new sub/slave would have to earn...but... I stick to my guns, there would be no difference in the "worth" or "value" of either sub/slave. That would be akin to saying that because I stay at home and spend the most time with our sub/slave(s) that I would have more "worth" or "value" as a Dominant... or the flip side of the coin, Scooter, because he works and is the breadwinner of the household would hold the greater "worth" or "value" for those very reasons. A submissive that mows the yard, tends the flowerbeds and cleans the garage is of no greater worth then the one that cleans the house, cooks the meals or does the laundry, they are just different. I cannot justify a persons worth by how much time I have spent with them... if I/we have gone to the effort to get to know the person and have invited them to come to live in our home and be part of our family then in our eyes they are all priceless.

As an example... A married couple finds out that they are not able to have children so they adopt one... a few years later they adopt another. The value of each would be equal and in no way would the second diminish the worth of the first. Yes, there are aways certain privileges that comes with being the oldest, but in time, doesn't the younger earn those same privileges? It's simple progression.

Hopefully I have better explained myself this time.

Jewel

_____________________________

ShiftedJewel of PhoenixRisen

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 40
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