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Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 5:50:07 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		WASHINGTON —It isn’t streamlined, it isn’t logical, but America’s cobbled-together system of paying for medical care does cover 85 percent of the population.

And despite the chorus of pleas for a sweeping redesign of America's medical insurance system as the 2008 presidential race heats up, a top-to-bottom makeover seems less likely than a series of reforms that aims to fill in gaps in coverage.

The calls for a far-reaching redesign of the health care system are as loud as they were in 1993, when a newly elected Bill Clinton tried to persuade Congress to enact a form of national insurance — the last time a president took on the issue.

But while the 2008 presidential contenders are talking about health insurance, most of their ideas are familiar ones aimed at expanding insurance coverage rather than reinventing the system.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20002130

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 6:10:35 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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Status: offline 		Trent Lott quote from page two of that lame article: “If people want socialism, if they want the federal government to pay for all of our health care needs, let’s just go ahead and become a socialist government.”

We've talked about it before so I'll just say what I said then: "Boy howdy, I am so glad we dodged that bullet!"
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1141880

Any mandatory, single payer version is still designed to pay big for the pigs at the trough. What we need to do is remove entirely the greedy piggies that keep inflating the prices. Then who cares what we pay the actual healthcare workers - we will have vastly reduced the money wasted on making profits for unnecessary middlemen.

Frankly, we would do well to apply the same technique to politics in general: The lobbyists and middlemen must go! No person without the ability to vote should be able to waste even one minute of an elected officials time. The we'd have meaningful campaign finance reform and a return to the ideals of our republic. As it is, we might as well bend over and grease up for the all-powerful plutocracy that exists already.

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 8/17/2007 6:11:04 PM >

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 6:17:27 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro


Any mandatory, single payer version is still designed to pay big for the pigs at the trough. What we need to do is remove entirely the greedy piggies that keep inflating the prices. Then who cares what we pay the actual healthcare workers - we will have vastly reduced the money wasted on making profits for unnecessary middlemen.



Now, that might be an area of agreement. What are some specifics that could bring those things about?

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 6:25:50 PM   
Vampyrefledgling


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Status: offline 		The United States NEEDS a universal health care system. Needs it badly. I have been advocating this for many, many years! Look at other developed nations, Britain, Canada, Scandinavia...these countries all take care of their people, but somehow the US cannot seem to find it in its deep pockets to care for its poor, its elderly, its children, or even its veterans! Yet it somehow continues to shut down hospitals and cut funding for schools and such.

~A.

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 6:29:09 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Churro, you don't want big pharma to lose tens of billion$ of dollars, do you?
How is this program "socialist" if we're all paying for it?
If we cut the State Dept in half and ended "foreign aid" those two things alone would pay for it.

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 6:36:28 PM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		If you'll pay for the Common Defense, why not pay for the Public Health?

Every single fucking retard who suggests that the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Farce, DHS and TSA is good, but full coverage/single payer/getting rid of the pointless middleman is bad is just a fucking retard who can't see their own hypocritical bullshit.



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 6:57:33 PM   
Durus


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Status: offline 		Giving government control over health care would result in a clusterfuck of unimanginable preportions. Government, you may notice, can't run what they have control of now.

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:01:45 PM   
Durus


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Status: offline 		If you'll pay for the Common Defense, why not pay for the Public Health?

Becasue the common defense is a constitutionally mandated power of government and health care is not.

Every single fucking retard who suggests that the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Farce, DHS and TSA is good, but full coverage/single payer/getting rid of the pointless middleman is bad is just a fucking retard who can't see their own hypocritical bullshit.
Anyone that thinks putting government in power of health care is going to get rid of any middle men is a clueless idiot that has no comprehesion of what is wrong with our government.

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:04:59 PM   
SusanofO


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Status: offline 		I am anticipating a revolt by U.S. citizens (who are in favor of it) on just this issue - taking place at the Polls, in this next Presidential election. I hope I am not disappointed. Actually, Mitt Romney is the only candidate who has attempted to revamp the system (in Massachusetts). And it's working, too. I will refuse to vote for any candidate who will not take this issue seriously - no matter how much I like them when it comes to thier stance on other issues.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/17/2007 7:07:49 PM >

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:07:25 PM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		"Promote the General Welfare" ring any bells? It's RIGHT AFTER the words "provide for the common defence"

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:07:34 PM   
Durus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vampyrefledgling
Look at other developed nations, Britain, Canada, Scandinavia...these countries all take care of their people, but somehow the US cannot seem to find it in its deep pockets to care for its poor, its elderly, its children, or even its veterans! Yet it somehow continues to shut down hospitals and cut funding for schools and such.


You should do a little research into the health care systems of those countries, how miuch they cost and what the level of care is. I don't think you would want to be in any of those systems.

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:08:49 PM   
NefertariReborn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vampyrefledgling

The United States NEEDS a universal health care system. Needs it badly. I have been advocating this for many, many years! Look at other developed nations, Britain, Canada, Scandinavia...these countries all take care of their people, but somehow the US cannot seem to find it in its deep pockets to care for its poor, its elderly, its children, or even its veterans! Yet it somehow continues to shut down hospitals and cut funding for schools and such.

~A.


We're working on universal health care here.  So far children under 18, children who are 18+ but still in college, senior citizens, civil and public servants all are entitled to free healthcare.  ER care costs $10.00.  Same doctors who work in private practice service the public health system.  Private health care is still in place for those who want it.  And before the elitist jump on the bandwagon....yep all US and Britain trained doctors, though our radiologists and those in similar fields are mostly from the Phillipines.  Our former Prime Minister always said a country should be judged by how it treats its very young and very old.  We got advice from those countries who already had universal health care to help us draft our own legislation. 

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:19:49 PM   
Durus


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Status: offline 		You are quoting the preamble which does not infer any additional power to government. It's the stated purpose of the document and then it goes on to list specific enumerated power that are only powers that government can duly weild. For example Article 4, Section 4 states:

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

There is the enumerated power for common defense. Show me the enumerated power for universal health care.

James Madison, who knew a little bit about the constitution, had this to say:

To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation, as rendering the special and careful enumeration of powers which follow the clause nugatory and improper. Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust.

Now that you know what the constitution means I'm sure you have completely changed your view and wouldn't think about giving government an additional power that is not constitutional. Right?

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:25:56 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Durus
Now that you know what the constitution means I'm sure you have completely changed your view and wouldn't think about giving government an additional power that is not constitutional. Right?


Actually, why not? Bush seems to want to do it all the time.

And anyway, this is the post-Constitutional era.

Buckle up...

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:35:31 PM   
Durus


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Status: offline 		Bush hasn't injured the constitution any more then those he replaced and those they replaced and so on back to the late 1800's.

Post constitutional? Did we have a revolution and no one told me?

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:37:33 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Durus
Post constitutional? Did we have a revolution and no one told me?


Yes, and it wasn't televised either. Maybe Rush can help you out...

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 7:38:29 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:


The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

There is the enumerated power for common defense. Show me the enumerated power for universal health care.


Interesting. Explain the TSA in that context. It would seem that any "domestic Violence" they refer to isn't someone beating their wife, but rather insurrection equal to an invasion, and therefore not anything which would give rise to the TSA.

The State Governor would have to ask the Legislature or Executive for help in extraordinary situations. I don't see that standard as being met.

Back to the topic. I'm sure there's something which could be read to provide for the healthcare of The People...

"To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;"

There you go... The old Commerce Clause + Necessary and Proper Combo -- As part of Federal Labor Law, Employers can be made to into Social Medicine Taxes. Just like Social Security. But with healthcare.

Of course, here's a startling thought... ( which should appeal to your Madisonian streak... )

LET'S AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO PROVIDE EXPLICITLY FOR THE HEALTH OF CITIZENS.



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 8:01:46 PM   
Lordandmaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Durus

Every single fucking retard who suggests that the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Farce, DHS and TSA is good, but full coverage/single payer/getting rid of the pointless middleman is bad is just a fucking retard who can't see their own hypocritical bullshit.
Anyone that thinks putting government in power of health care is going to get rid of any middle men is a clueless idiot that has no comprehesion of what is wrong with our government.

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 8:31:04 PM   
Durus


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Status: offline 		Explain the TSA in that context.
I can't explain constitutional boondoggles except on does not excuse another.

I'm sure there's something which could be read to provide for the healthcare of The People...

"To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;"

There you go... The old Commerce Clause + Necessary and Proper Combo -- As part of Federal Labor Law, Employers can be made to into Social Medicine Taxes. Just like Social Security. But with healthcare.

Perfect! Use past excuses to pass unconstitutional measure to pass further ones.

Of course, here's a startling thought... ( which should appeal to your Madisonian streak... )

LET'S AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO PROVIDE EXPLICITLY FOR THE HEALTH OF CITIZENS.

That's the only way it would be constitutional...good luck with that.

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RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? - 8/17/2007 8:35:41 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Durus
That's the only way it would be constitutional...


Which every day, in dozens of ways, is a less and less relevant goal.

Thank you GOP!

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