RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (Full Version)

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Durus -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 8:37:06 PM)

Yes, and it wasn't televised either. Maybe Rush can help you out...

A stupid sixties phrase and a veiled unsult intimating I'm either ignorant or a Libaugh fan? Is that the basis of your arguement?



farglebargle -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 8:38:56 PM)

'70's.. Small Talk at 125th and Lenox came out in 1970.




Durus -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 8:42:59 PM)

Is the GOP the only party that shows contempt for the constitution? The most egregious violations of the constitution are things that Democrats put in place.



Durus -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 8:45:13 PM)


'70's.. Small Talk at 125th and Lenox came out in 1970.

I stand corrected.



farglebargle -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 8:46:17 PM)

Paul/Kucinich '08. Fuck 'em all.




Durus -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 8:47:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Paul/Kucinich '08. Fuck 'em all.




Finally some common ground! I agree that it would fuck them all...and us. 



Durus -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 8:49:56 PM)

I hope I didn't offend your sensibilites ;)



queencaliph -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/17/2007 9:26:08 PM)

I thought just about anything could be constitutional as long as it was passed by two-thirds vote of Congress?  Isn't that how we got income tax? Strange no one screamed socialism when they were taxing our money in the first place.  Now that some of us are insisting that the money they take from us be used on us, its a problem. Go figure.



Durus -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/18/2007 6:17:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: queencaliph

I thought just about anything could be constitutional as long as it was passed by two-thirds vote of Congress?  Isn't that how we got income tax? Strange no one screamed socialism when they were taxing our money in the first place.  Now that some of us are insisting that the money they take from us be used on us, its a problem. Go figure.


Well...no. Congress can not vote themselves unlimited power. The income tax is constitutional becasue they passed the 17th amendment.

However your last statement does resonate with a lot of people. The government already taxes us outragously...why isn't it better that the tax money goes to help people down on their luck rather then say...building a bridge in alaska that goes to an unpopulated island? In that case I would have to agree...but I would prefer that we reign in the out of control spending by government and have them focus on what they are supposed to be doing and then individuals could afford their own health care.



caitlyn -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/18/2007 6:52:36 AM)

General ...
 
The point keeps being made that the government can't run anything with any efficiency, and this is a good reason not to give the government control over health care. I somewhat wonder about this.
 
The government runs the military. The military, when not given missions outside of it's scope, with seriously flawed objectives that tend to keep moving, seems to run reasonably well.
 
The government runs the post office, which seems to do a pretty good job.
 
I know a lot of people trash the educational system in the United States, and want to put blame on the government. Being not that far out of public schools, I can only say that blaming the government is perhaps easier than admitting that most of our little angels just don't give a fuck, and most parents won't take the hard steps needed to make them give a fuck.
 
The FDA seems to do pretty well.
 
I think everyone gets their social security checks on time.
 
I have some people in the know, that say Medicare is by far the best, and most fair payer by a mile. 



seeksfemslave -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/18/2007 7:55:18 AM)

One of the earlier posters said  speaking of the Brit. Health System that you, ie CM readers, would not want to belong to it.

Well poster I'll make a deal with you all in the interests of furthering our knowledge.
You travel to the UK and get yourself knocked down by a bus or have a heart attack in the street and I will do the same after arriving in the US.
I am absolutely certain you would get treated in the long term better in the UK, regardless of your income.
The short term I am not sure since possibly life threatening injuries may be treated somewhere. I dont know,
If in America you have some form of insurance you will as I understand it get quicker treatment than the UK. Can you insure for chronic ie serious long lasting conditions in the US ?
Many health policies are hedged with exceptions exemptions and omissions which only come to light when you need to use the policies.

If this is too anecdotal I refer you to Barry Sheene a world champion motor cyclist who was seriously injured in Daytona and was filmed being held in a hospital corridor while his financial status was checked out.
Is that an example of a superior system ?



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/18/2007 8:20:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Paul/Kucinich '08. Fuck 'em all.




You also say you are for Universal Healthcare.

Could you clarify. Not trying to be an ass, or anything. It simply doesn't compute to me.  You can't get rid of the IRS(ron pauls wet dream), and create the largest new federal program in the history of mankind at the same time. It just doesn't work out.  And on top of it, Ron Paul hasn't met a federal agency he didn't want to reduce. So, you support a man for presidency, that would die before he allowed another huge federal agency get started on his watch(universal healthcare)?

Could you explain, how these two positions could coexist?




Alumbrado -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/18/2007 8:38:42 AM)

quote:

The calls for a far-reaching redesign of the health care system are as loud as they were in 1993, when a newly elected Bill Clinton tried to persuade Congress to enact a form of national insurance — the last time a president took on the issue.



And Tennessee is stll saddled with the trial balloon... Tenncare.  What an abomination.



farglebargle -> RE: Is universal health care on the horizon? (8/18/2007 9:28:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Paul/Kucinich '08. Fuck 'em all.




You also say you are for Universal Healthcare.

Could you clarify. Not trying to be an ass, or anything. It simply doesn't compute to me. You can't get rid of the IRS(ron pauls wet dream), and create the largest new federal program in the history of mankind at the same time. It just doesn't work out. And on top of it, Ron Paul hasn't met a federal agency he didn't want to reduce. So, you support a man for presidency, that would die before he allowed another huge federal agency get started on his watch(universal healthcare)?

Could you explain, how these two positions could coexist?



What would a synthesis of Denis Kucinich's policies and Ron Paul's policies looks like.

I think, the LIBERTARIAN wet dream.

I think the States are handling universal child healthcare pretty well as it is.

So it's do-able by the States. Of course the feds are trying to shut that down. I can understand why.

It's cheaper to buy 2 Senators in DC than enough State Legislators in each state.

And the Insurance Companies rule the roost.

I say, there's no reason for The People to pay higher prices to Insurance Companies which PROVIDE NO REAL BENEFIT to the consumer.

I have a GP I work with. Her bookkeeper was telling me how a regional HMO will cut her a check for 3 bucks and change to cover what should be payed out, say fifty bucks.

The HMO's attitude is "Fuck You".

I'm not getting the 14,000/year I pay to the HMO worth of value out of them.

So the Consumer is getting ripped off.

And the Physicians are getting ripped of.

I don't really give a shit about the Hospitals. They're part of the problem, too.

Ugh. I suppose if I didn't SEE the 14k/yr line item OUT OF MY POCKET from the accountant it wouldn't bother me as much.




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