RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (Full Version)

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missturbation -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/16/2007 2:51:27 PM)

No comment on gun's from me lol. Been there and done that here!!
What i will comment on is that i have worked in the licenced trade for over 15 years in a variety of venues including city centre, nightclubs, sports orientated, young person venues and local village pubs.
I don't think there has been a rise in violent crime committed by younger people at all. It has always been there to the extent of today in my time in the trade and it is definately not just a younger person thing.
We run a pub watch scheme in our area and if you look at the list of barred people there are virtually just as many banned for life from pubs in my area that are over 30 as there are 18 - 30's.
Violent alcohol related crime is not the domain of the male anymore either, a good majority are female.



Politesub53 -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/16/2007 3:00:31 PM)

Maybe not a rise in vandalism and such. More of a rise in fatalities though. Much of the trouble where i am comes from Youngsters too young for bars and buying drinks in local stores. Trouble in the town centre has increased in recent years, probably as the local bars are better run than they were. One of the major stores lost its drinks license for just that.
[;)]



seeksfemslave -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/16/2007 3:03:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I'm off to YouTube and I intend to search for NorthernGent and see what pops up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FF_U992yFo

This a performance of the Manchester Clog Dance Hip Hoppers.
NG is in there somewhere.
Oooh it 'urts me when I larf !

Missturbation gets more beautiful with every post she makes



NorthernGent -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/16/2007 3:12:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I'm off to YouTube and I intend to search for NorthernGent and see what pops up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FF_U992yFo

This a performance of the Manchester Clog Dance Hip Hoppers.
NG is in there somewhere.
Oooh it 'urts me when I larf !


Ah yes, associate my name with a clip of blokes dancing in the US, and humour will occur.

This gang of Manchester Morris Dancers is more my style. I'd just nipped off to the pub at this stage for a light ale in between dances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOjeJA-rx3o







seeksfemslave -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/16/2007 3:16:17 PM)

Well NG that video did "come back" when I searched for Northern Gent
Now where were we ?



NorthernGent -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/16/2007 3:18:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Well NG that video did "come back" when I searched for Northern Gent
Now where were we ?


Seeks,

a) What on earth are you doing typing Northern Gent into a YouTube search engine?

b) You do realise my name is not Northern Gent?



Alumbrado -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/16/2007 3:31:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

FullCircle you mean they would have pulled thiers first?  the facts of the story is that they were in the process of vandalizing when he confronted them, so they beat him to death.  In this case he certainly would have had the time to get his gun out first.


I meant he was not the type that would have carried a gun anyway, few of us are. Serving police officers in the UK were recently polled on this issue and they would still rather not carry guns even though they face gun crime on the front line. Nobody here takes the attitude that I must kill you to stop you from killing me. We just don’t think in those terms and I hope we never do.

I think it’s also a bit extreme to threaten someone with a gun for vandalising your property. Human life is worth more than possessions to most of us and we all have car insurance that covers such mindlessness.



If you are talking about the PFEW poll, I believe the wording of the question was whether or not they wanted every officer to carry firearms all the time. 

I doubt seriously if any of them said that they would rather enjoy a bit of the old 'getting capped in the ass', as the Yanks put it.



LadyEllen -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 1:58:29 AM)

It amazes me that people who have never seen a gun in their life, by their own admission - can then talk so knowledgeably about the matter as to why theyre evil.

We banned guns because of two incidents. In both cases, men with known psychiatric conditions were given firearms licences - in direct contravention of the laws, procedures and regulations for such licences. Both men then went on killing sprees.

Meanwhile, thousands of quite normal people who also had licences went about their normal business, target shooting and so on as a hobby.

Naturally, the solution to the whole affair was to ban everything but two barrelled shotguns, affecting thousands of quite normal people, rather than prosecuting the police officers responsible for permitting possession of firearms by two men with psychiatric conditions.

On this reasoning, the death of a father intervening against drunken youths, not to mention the deaths of multiple victims of DUI drivers, indicates that all alcohol should immediately be banned. I somehow doubt that will be the "logical result" however.

I had guns. I never shot anyone or even at anyone. In fact I took great pains to ensure that no one could get shot when I pulled the trigger. I've also got drunk many times in my life, but never pissed through a letterbox, smashed up a car, driven a car or assaulted anyone, drunk or not.

This is a miracle of course, since the fact that I would like a gun means I am a nutter according to many Brits, and so ought to be running amok, drunk off my face too.

But if I were such a nutter, bent on killing for fun or causing trouble, I still have all the means I need to do so, regardless of having a gun or whisky.

We must stop with this ridiculous notion that all people are the same - they clearly are not, and so stop also the policy of blanket laws that must cover everyone by reference to the most stupid, evil or insane. Some animals are more equal than others, and the rest require treating for what they are.

E



Politesub53 -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 5:19:57 AM)

Lady Ellen... Hamilton wasnt known to have a psychiatric condition when he obtained his gun license, as far as i know. One police officer did recommend to his seniors that his license be looked at. The officer who decided there was no need resigned when the Cullen report was published. As bad as drink driving is, there is a world of difference between a drunk driver killing people in an accident, and a gun club member shooting dozens of innocent people.



LadyEllen -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 6:05:13 AM)

PS53 - what gun club was he a member of please?

Also, how many gun club members ran amok exactly, in whole numbers or as a percentage of the total membership involved?

And why is it, with a ban in place, that gun related crime is up since then? I thought the ban was to prevent legally held weapons falling into the hands of criminals.....and that hasnt worked. All that has happened is that thousands of normal everyday law abiding people have been prevented from owning a gun.

And whats really stupid about it? Our Olympic shooting teams have to train out of the country because they may not have a gun in the UK, whilst some gangsta driving past their house has one. It will be interesting for the London Olympics as to what will be done with the shooting events - arrest all the arriving competitors? Hold the events in another country?

And there is no accident when a drunk driver kills or maims. It was an act of commission, at best negligence, but no accident.

E



Alumbrado -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 6:08:24 AM)

quote:

And there is no accident when a drunk driver kills or maims. It was an act of commission, at best negligence, but no accident.


Thank you. An accident is when a piece of a meteor lands on your house, not when someone engages in deliberate acts with inevitable consequences.



Politesub53 -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 6:27:49 AM)

Lady Ellen... Yes my use of the word accident was wrong. Drink driving is a criminal act, i dont deny that.

Hamilton used to shoot at various clubs. If he wasnt a member then why did this happen ? He also stated that he was a member of the Dunblane rifle club and had applied to join others.

I did say on an earlier post why guns were freely available to criminals. Part of the problem is also due to the illegal conversion of replica guns.

The fact still remains that gun club members were responsible for the two biggest tragedies of that type in the UK. If its 15 or 99% that doesnt really matter.

Maybe you have a point about the Olympics, but it palls into insignificance compared to the events of Dunblane and Hungerford.



Politesub53 -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 6:30:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

And there is no accident when a drunk driver kills or maims. It was an act of commission, at best negligence, but no accident.


Thank you. An accident is when a piece of a meteor lands on your house, not when someone engages in deliberate acts with inevitable consequences.


As i said to Lady Ellen, my use of the word accident was incorrect. However, there is still a world of difference between drink driving and setting out to commit multipe murders intentionally. Its all in the intent.



Sinergy -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 7:33:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Also, how many gun club members ran amok exactly, in whole numbers or as a percentage of the total membership involved?



All of them.

Having said that, I agree with LadyEllen.  Outlaw guns and people will kill each other with cricket bats and Yugos.

Where does it end?

Sinergy

p.s.  Have pointed out before that the only dangerous part of a gun is the nut behind the trigger.



philosophy -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 9:07:04 AM)

FR

....gun crime doubles shock horror......

...however, stats can mislead. If we have one gun crime per million people a year and it goes up to two gun crimes per million per year then it has doubled, yet the chance of actually seeing or being affected by such crime is still remote.
Are there any figures that, from a common baseline, can be used to compare gun crime rates between the US and the UK? If such things exist then that is a rational basis for discusion.



Alumbrado -> RE: Britain battles drunk, violent youths (8/17/2007 9:18:02 AM)

None that are going to change anyone's mind, I'd wager....[:D]



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