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Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 9:23:28 AM

Lordandmaster

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Fascinating article about bonobos in, of all places, The New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/07/30/070730fa_fact_parker

Turns out they're not the peace-loving, pussy-rubbing lovebirds we've all been led to believe.

And Frans de Waal, the tireless ape popularizer, comes off VERY poorly in this article.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 9:47:05 AM

camille65

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Hmmm I thought it read 'boobs aren't really so peace-loving'

The one pictured on the first page is awfully cute. Monkey.. not boobie.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 9:57:13 AM

Najakcharmer

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Science gets tainted all the time by what nabs the grant money and donations.

There is no question that bonobos engage in the type of social bonding/aggression diffusing sexual behavior that has been extensively written about in this species. There is considerable question as to the perceptions and motives of some of the people writing about their behavior.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 10:41:22 AM

Lordandmaster

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Well, yeah, but apparently they bite off each other's fingers, too. I haven't exactly been following bonobo research; I was still at the Frans de Waal stage before reading this article.

There's also a huge issue, according to the article, about the behavior of captive vs. wild bonobos. The happy-go-lucky sexual behavior that people talk about is much more prominent in captive bonobos. And since hardly anyone has observed bonobos in the wild (including, amazingly, De Waal himself, who has decided that he doesn't need to go to the Congo), their behavior in captivity has come to define the standard view of bonobos, even though it's artificial.

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ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

There is no question that bonobos engage in the type of social bonding/aggression diffusing sexual behavior that has been extensively written about in this species.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 10:50:20 AM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, yeah, but apparently they bite off each other's fingers, too. I haven't exactly been following bonobo research; I was still at the Frans de Waal stage before reading this article.

Oh, there's been other whispers of malcontent in primatology about the not so consistently peaceful bonobos. They just haven't really made the mainstream, until now.

Thing is, you can study a society that has evolved elaborate rituals of courtesy and greeting, and you can also observe that under some circumstances they fail to observe those courtesies and instead punch each other in the nose. That doesn't make your study of those elaborate rituals invalid; it simply says they aren't infallible.

quote:

There's also a huge issue, according to the article, about the behavior of captive vs. wild bonobos. The happy-go-lucky sexual behavior that people talk about is much more prominent in captive bonobos. And since hardly anyone has observed bonobos in the wild (including, amazingly, De Waal himself, who has decided that he doesn't need to go to the Congo), their behavior in captivity has come to define the standard view of bonobos, even though it's artificial.

You're always going to see a dichotomy between wild and captive behavior, but social aggression is more likely to increase than to decrease as a rule. This is a lay publication so it's hard to glean quite enough from it to draw any conclusions, but what was hinted at was the size of the bonobo group being the catalyst for more violent activity (eg, hunting and intragroup aggression). A smaller group might tend to engage in less aggression, and consequently would present an incomplete picture of their natural behavior.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 8/9/2007 10:51:13 AM >

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 2:02:17 PM

proudsub

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Trying to remember the name of the book i read where bononbos were cloaned with human DNA so their organs could be used as spare parts. They were kept on an island but became very aggressive. I'm thinking it might of been a Michael Palmer or Robin Cook book.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 2:05:27 PM

kittinSol

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Primates freak me out.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 6:23:23 PM

SugarMyChurro

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You mean like the Primate of England? C'mon kittinSol, you know you want to rub your bonobos inflamed pussy on him...

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 9:08:15 PM

Smythe

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Besides being peace loving, the Bonobos were once held up as being female dominant. Did this part of the theory go out the window as well? I saw the article while on the elliptical at the gym but didn't have the patience to read it. Also, the wind from the fan kept closing the New Yorker and opening People Magazine.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 9:23:04 PM

Lordandmaster

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According to the article, it's unclear. In captivity, yes, females dominate, and even in the wild, it's not unusual to see women gang up on males, sometimes biting off their fingers (or worse). Under circumstances of scarce food, however, normally placid males start to push the females around. And there remains the unexplained fact that males are larger and stronger than females. There must be some benefit to their body size, but it cannot be explained with the current understanding of their behavior. They mentioned ongoing research involving measuring the testosterone content of the males' urine. If highly ranked males don't have especially high amounts of testosterone, the theory goes, then they're taking advantage of their MOTHERS' status.

But...I'm hardly an expert on bonobos. I just like readin' stuff.

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RE: Bonobos aren't really so peace-loving after all... - 8/9/2007 9:25:48 PM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
Besides being peace loving, the Bonobos were once held up as being female dominant.

Naah, it's more complicated than that. The popular press will seize on the most "exciting" and simplistic summary of a bit of research, and it never is quite that simple in real life.

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