The GOP can shut up now... (Full Version)

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SugarMyChurro -> The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:03:07 AM)

"China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml

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At last I see that the "red scare" we used to hear so much about was founded on the fear that we would view China as a viable business partner.

Thank you, Richard Nixon!



kittinSol -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:07:41 AM)

The embarrassment for those who still think the dollar rules must be immense.

Well, that's the true spirit of global capitalism. I hope everyone's happy that everything is for the best in the best of possible worlds.

Sugar, you really aren't stranger to controversy, are you? I mean, an article from 'The Telegraph'!!! Whatever are you thinking, man :-) !



mnottertail -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:08:05 AM)

well, I think I said that it was inevitable more than a couple years ago, they have us on the fuckin' ropes, we are pouring ourselves into this idiotic democratization of Iraq......now, they can sink the dollar (and they got lots) putting pressure on a bunch of different economies (certainly britain and others will be forced to come to our aid) and dropping the lot more than shallowly.

One does not need guns to win the war.

Ku-Fu-Chi-Sui-Ka

the five rings
the five elements

perhaps we are guatemalans

we certainly do not think in long terms like we are going to be here a thousand years hence.

Ron 



Sinergy -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:12:43 AM)

 
Well, while China does hold a vast amount of our holdings, our economies are linked.

It would be a phyrric victory for them.

Anybody who does not realize that China has the United States by the short and curlies is delusional.

Sinergy

p.s.  On a related note, they got a vast number of those securities when Anencephalyboy wanted to go play in the sandbox with his Army Men.  Hope you right-wingers are proud of what you have done to our economy.



Alumbrado -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:15:53 AM)

Gorin No Sho (The book of the five rings) is Japanese...  WuHsing (the 5 phases, or elements) is Chinese.

Not the same place,  people, or ideology.



cyberdude611 -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:24:34 AM)

Well I dont think the Chinese would actually do this because it would blowback in their face just as hard. It would cause them to become politically isolated and eventually will serious disrupt their economy and growth in the long term. It wouldn't also cause a complete crash since it is not China that holds the majority of the US bonds...that would be Japan that holds over 40%.



pahunkboy -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:33:14 AM)

my contractor likes gold as an invesgtment,



mnottertail -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 8:39:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Gorin No Sho (The book of the five rings) is Japanese...  WuHsing (the 5 phases, or elements) is Chinese.

Not the same place,  people, or ideology.


The ideology is very closely related.  Perhaps you have mis-spoken. 

Ron

(place and people, OK. But intertwined as well)



Alumbrado -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:08:31 AM)

Not even close...Perhaps you should do a lot of research into both five rings and five elements, and I'm not referring to New Age co-opting of them both..



mnottertail -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:10:34 AM)

I have. We shall have to live with our disagreements on the issue.

Thanks



Alumbrado -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:20:57 AM)

Then you will have no trouble providing links to support your assertions.



mnottertail -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:29:55 AM)

I will not.  When will you provide the links to prove yours?

Anyone can assert anything via cant. Anyone can find a link that asserts whatever their little heart desires.

The link-fighting, however orotund or fallacious will not change your opinion, nor will it change mine.

But this is not central to the question.  Do you believe that the Chinese are thinking with Wu hsing? Or are their thoughts on the matter involved in getting more oil economically or having some other benefit accrue to them in the very short term?
Or, rather, do you believe that they would take such a serious step in the first place?

Ron   

edited because I cannot spell for shit, not that anything is spelled correctly now



Alumbrado -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:36:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I will not.  When will you provide the links to prove yours?

Anyone can assert anything via cant. Anyone can find a link that asserts whatever their little heart desires.

The link-fighting, however orotund or fallacious will not change your opinion, nor will it change mine.

But this is not central to the question.  Do you believe that the Chinese are thining with Wu hsing? Or are their thoughts on the matter involved in getting more oil economically or having some other benefit accrue to them in the very short term?
Or, rather, do you believe that they would take such a serious step in the first place?

Ron   




I have no clue what 'thining with Wu Hsing' is supposed to mean.

Do you even know what 'five elements' is in Chinese cosmology? Or that five rings has nothing to do with the origins of the unverse?

But your inability to make a coherent explanation along with your claims of superior knowledge, plus your dismissal of facts you haven't even seen yet,  are all the red flags (no pun intended) I need.  I'll leave you to your own delusions.



mnottertail -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:37:29 AM)

yes.
Wood Fire Earth Metal Water 

go back and re-read my post, spelling errors are ubitquious.  Mine and yours, this insignificant matter  should not confuse you whatsoever, given your insightful and well-thought out proofs on this matter.

 



Lordandmaster -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:46:47 AM)

They're really not the same.  The five phases of wuxing (wu-hsing) are:

Metal Wood Water Fire Earth 金木水火土

The five rings of the Book of Five Rings (or literally "Five Wheels") are:

Earth Water Fire Wind Air/Space 地水火風空



camille65 -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:46:49 AM)

Some of us realllllllly want to see your  'link'  Ron!
[:D]



Sinergy -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 9:54:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It would cause them to become politically isolated



While I agree with everything else you posted, this is not really correct, cyberdude611.

China historically has considered itself the Central Kingdom.

Culturally, they really do not care one way or the other about anybody else on the planet, except insofar as it impacts their own goals.  In other words, the only political isolation they might care about is the one which impacts their economy.

Sinergy



mnottertail -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 10:04:31 AM)

I did not say anywhere that they were the same, but very much related.

Your Air/Space would be better translated in situ to Void I think.

To make some of these things not intertwined in your mind or mine, may be somewhat useful, but that is to say:

Fellatio and cockworship are two different things entirely.  

They are not entirely different. Neither are they entirely the same.

Perhaps you don't see it this way, and that is fine, for you Lam and you Alumbrado, but personally it is in the void for me. 

C65 simply google Wu hsing, and you will see some ditties on it, Gorin No Sho is going to bring you to the book by Mushashi unless I am mistaken, but:


Earth Water Fire Wind Air/Space
or
Chi Sui Ka Fu Ku (in the order of Lam)

transcends just the swordsmanship principles of Mushashi, and predates him.

Ron

(look, if you guys want, I will say I am wrong, because China on the world stage is a more interesting subject at the moment) 

Never let it be said that I will not slink away, and fight another day.



Alumbrado -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 10:23:14 AM)

Musashi named his five books on personal excellence in combat et al., after elemental concepts, and explained why he chose to call them what he did... As anyone who has read them knows, the Earth book was likened to a path across the ground, and so forth.

And anyone who has read decent translatons of Taoist texts knows, that is not what the Five (different, BTW) elements of Chinese cosmology are about when explaining the origins of the universe, the pursuit of immortality, or healing through balancing of life energies.

For example, in Wu Hsing, Earth refers not merely to an analogy for drawing a line in the dirt, but a process in a cycle of processes tht affect each other..earth puts out fires, grows wood, and is in turn affected by the other elements.

Sorry, but again, two different ideologies, so if you are saying that the Chinese today are guided by both Musashi's 5 rings,  and by the Yellow Emperor's 5 elements, perhaps you would be so good as to be more specific?

Otherwise you leave yourself open to the perception that you think all of Asia shares the same culture.



mnottertail -> RE: The GOP can shut up now... (8/8/2007 10:48:27 AM)

nowhere did I say that.

However, I will say that Gorin No Sho came from a more personal aspect (more personal aspect:  flimsy and not the words I would wish to use, but if one is not too pedantic, and takes the spirit of it) of the teachings of Wu Hsing, and you can hardly say that the concepts of  Wu shu or Wu ji or just plain ol' yin and yang (which is actually more complex than wu ji (the void is here is it not?)).

But this belabors the point.  Now, that is enough, I don't wanna type all day, and like I said, it is in the void  to me that you say they are not related.  Fine, I accept your opinion.

However, again, Chi Sui Ka Fu Ku  predates Mushashi, and because he drew analogies from it, and called it by the name 5 rings does in no way reflect the entire meaning of that.

No more than shaking dice or flipping pennies to the I Ching will help one understand its passages. 

But, if  Wu hsing is the philosophy behind China's governance (as I suspect it is (*NB: no links forthcoming) whether in Hitler interpretations or St. Fuckin' Thomas Aquinas interpretations it is being interpreted in new-age fashion; then, and I can hardly see why you forbid its linkage in new-age fashion to any other makimono, since we are talking about now.

Ron

(I of course agree with Sinergy, China don't give a fiddlers fuck about world opinion, they will do what is in China's best interests over the long run, and if doing so means they shit on someone in a bad way and take advantage of it, who cares, everyone will forget the sting of that a few centuries down the road) 



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