GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (Full Version)

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cyberdude611 -> GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 1:04:14 PM)

In a massive flare-up of partisan tensions Republicans walked out on a House vote late Thursday night to protest what they believed to be Democratic maneuvers to reverse an unfavorable outcome for them.

The flap represents a complete breakdown in parliamentary procedure and a distinct low for the sometimes bitterly divided chamber because members of one party have rarely, if ever, walked off the floor without casting a vote.
The rancor erupted shortly before 11 p.m. as Rep. Michael R. McNulty (D-N.Y.) gaveled close the vote on a standard procedural measure with the outcome still in doubt.

Details remain fuzzy, but numerous Republicans argued afterward that they had secured a 215-213 win on their motion to bar undocumented immigrants from receiving any federal funds apportioned in the agricultural spending bill for employment or rental assistance. Democrats, however, argued the measure was deadlocked at 214-214 and failed, members and aides on both sides of the aisle said afterward.


One GOP aide saw McNulty gavel the vote to a close after receiving a signal from his leaders – but before reading the official tally. And votes continued to shift even after he closed the roll call - a strange development in itself.

Whatever the final tally, acrimony quickly exploded between lawmakers on either side of the aisle as Democratic leaders tried to plot a solution, while parliamentarians on either side argued over protocol.

Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) eventually offered a motion to reconsider, according to floor staff on either side, ostensibly giving members a chance to recast their votes. But the maneuver sparked a chorus of angry protests from the Republicans, yelling “shame” on Democrats, while they returned fire with angry volleys of their own.

When Democrats finally moved to consider the spending bill as the last vote of the night, furious Republicans left the chamber en masse to protest the maneuver. The House eventually recessed at 11:18 p.m. But Republicans quickly discovered that there was no longer any record of the controversial vote and immediately charged Democrats with erasing the bad result.

“Obviously, the Democrats don’t want to stand up against illegal immigration – so much so that they’re willing to cheat in order to win a vote,” Rep. Patrick McHenry (R-N.C.) said in an e-mail. “They’re desperate – and it shows.”

The official House website did not show a record of the vote as of 1 a.m. Friday.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0807/House_erupts_in_chaos.html



philosophy -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 1:06:58 PM)

...not having an encyclopedic knowledge of US congressional politics, how rare are such arguments?



mnottertail -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 1:10:01 PM)

so much for the bi-partisan willingness to work it out, more republican rhetoric.




popeye1250 -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 1:13:37 PM)

Isn't it already illegal for illegal aliens to be getting any U.S. Taxpayer dollars?
Why do they need "another" vote on that?



cyberdude611 -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 1:18:22 PM)

So far this term the Democrats have used some very odd procedural maneuvers, especially when it comes to immigration issues. One scholar on TV today said that the ones Dems used in the House yesturday hasn't been used since 1938.



luckydog1 -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 1:20:39 PM)

Not enough information to really make an informed comment on this yet...I am sure it wil become huge news.

But who could support erasing votes and information from the record?



mnottertail -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 1:27:17 PM)

Anyone in Congress (this would be both houses), is given carte blanche upon request and without a vote by saying 'Mr. Speaker (or Mr. President Pro Tempe (whatever), I reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks'.


the whatever is mine.  I can't think. Shouldn't present a great deal of surprise to this august body.

Cordially,

Ron
 



LotusSong -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 3:18:40 PM)

Bush vetoes anything that is passed  in accordance with his own agenda anyhow. Voting these days are nothing more than a paper tiger. 



cyberdude611 -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 3:55:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Anyone in Congress (this would be both houses), is given carte blanche upon request and without a vote by saying 'Mr. Speaker (or Mr. President Pro Tempe (whatever), I reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks'.


the whatever is mine.  I can't think. Shouldn't present a great deal of surprise to this august body.

Cordially,

Ron



That's not the issue...
The issue is that the vote on this passed 215-213 when the gavel fell. According to House rules that the Democrats themselves wrote in January, the vote at that point is final. Yet, the majority leadership allowed a few congressmen to change their votes (in other words they twisted arms) and the tally changed to 214-214 which means the motion fails.

This is the type of antics you would find in a banana republic. You don't change the rules as you go because you don't like the way a vote turned out. That's not democracy. And even many Democrats said that this manuever was not fair.

According to both Zogby and Gallup....this Democratically-lead congress is now the most unpopular congress in the history of the United States of America. A Zogby poll now shows that 93% of likely DEMOCRAT voters now say they disapprove of what Congress is doing. The reason is not because of Bush's vetos...it is because this congressional leadership does not know what they are doing. The partisanship and gamesmanship is way out of control. This congress is really falling apart....

2008 will be an interesting election....



mnottertail -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 4:28:24 PM)

quote:

Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) eventually offered a motion to reconsider, according to floor staff on either side, ostensibly giving members a chance to recast their votes. But the maneuver sparked a chorus of angry protests from the Republicans, yelling “shame” on Democrats, while they returned fire with angry volleys of their own.


There is no issue, a smattering of acquaintance with Roberts  Rules of Order should set this on  tenterhooks. possibly.

The idiot of the first part,  mistakenly  slammed the gavel,  out of order,  quite a gaffe no?

After consulting the rules, The Demo Majority Leader said look, 'procedure says that we should reconsider, if agreed, the Republicans thought there was more milage in crying foul deeds.....and nobody gives a fuck.  So they smeared off the vote because it did not obey the rules of meeting.  Insofar as a rule from 1938 being invoked, well, guy-----its a fuckin' rule, and the republican majority of the last few years has had time between its fight on terrorism and the dismantling of the VA to make it correct, wipe it off the books.  They didn't.

I think the republicans should get down on their knees and offer head to the democrats for their sense of fair play, in giving the GOP a chance to mend their errant and bellicose ways instead of biting the hand that feeds them, you know; in the spirit of cooperation and bi-partisanship................

Now, a man without much grounding in mathematics, but some common  sense should think that the 3% approval rating of the democratically controlled congress should be somewhere around at least 3%  better approval than the republican controlled congress might garner, sinc they were kicked to the curb some time ago.

Cordially,
Ron





farglebargle -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 5:14:38 PM)

I was thinking "Drug Plan", myself...



OrionTheWolf -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 6:04:36 PM)

The vote never occured since it is not on the record, at least legally. Nice one, but nothing that politicians do surprise me.

orion



mnottertail -> RE: GOP walks out of House after Dems void vote tally (8/3/2007 7:04:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

The vote never occured since it is not on the record, at least legally. Nice one, but nothing that politicians do surprise me.

orion


let me see if I can sweat this down...
the house never held a vote and the repulbicans never offered such an opinon never offered a counter solution as usual (*democratic spin)
we tried but like the war on terrorism, wd failed(*republican spin)

Did I actually miss something of import here?

Ron



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