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RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 9:00:34 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masternslave07

Attention Bush haters. Take a look at Chavez. He is an actual dictator. And a Leftist to boot. I know this may be tough to understand, but please try.


.......democracy is not the preserve of right wingers. i know that even as you read my words all you see is 'communism good, blah, blah, blah' but please try to understand.

(in reply to Masternslave07)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 9:02:46 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		   How embarrassing was it that Chavez provided discounted oil to the poor ,here in America.Less people died from the cold ,and it made bush look bad.
This isn`t about "spreading freedom" or uplifting a people or anything noble like that.
This is about controlling resources and oil/money*money/oil,etc.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/26/2007 9:05:46 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 10:51:03 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    Man I love the extreme left.  You can't talk about Ward Churchill being an academic fraud and hack because he says extreme things about the US and we can't call an evil dictator (or a potential one) that because his country has oil.

  Next somebody is gonna tell me I can't complain about the welfare trash moving in and destroying my neighborhood because they are members of a minority group... Wait... never mind, too late.

   I guess Chavez will expect to be denied entry to the US because of what he said at the UN last time.  Or am I setting my hopes a bit high?


Who said you couldn`t talk about churchill or Chavez?

Who`s stopping ya`ll from saying anything?

I think your issue is, you want to say your piece, without being challenged on it.If that`s so hard to deal with,just walk away.......There`s sports,cooking shows,I hear Trump has a new show coming out.You won`t have to feel so put upon any more.
FYI,you can say anything you want.
Just don`t be a cry baby, when someone calls you on your shit and challanges you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"I guess Chavez will expect to be denied entry to the US because of what he said at the UN last time.  Or am I setting my hopes a bit high?"

Okay,let`s compare.....

bush tries to help overthrow Chavez and steal the his presidency,and

Chavez insults bush at the UN........emmmmmm let`s see.......

overthrow, insult,....insult - overthrow,overthrow, insult,....insult - overthrow emmmm

That`s about the even.... (yeah...if you`re a nut or a neo-con, it is)

I believe these neo-cons would start a war with Venezuela.And they`d say anything to justify it.

Beware,America.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/26/2007 10:55:04 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 10:53:58 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Laughing..."Yeah, I ain't no dictator, and to prove it I'm gonna deport your gringo ass if you come to my country callin' me a dictator."

Chavez's recent political moves are shocking and dangerous.  I really think leftists need to stop apologizing for him.  Just because he stands up to Bush doesn't mean he's a good guy.



Well said, Lam. Those on the left that defend him will never, no matter what, cease doing so. They still defend Castro, as far as I can tell.


Level. It was the US that forced Castro's hand by not dealing with his new regime because he overthrew a US supported dictator. Originally Castro didn't have an ideology other than to get rid of Batista but the US's demonizing of the new Cuban regime and imposing a blockade made the USSR's wooing of Cuba look attractive. A similar thing is happening with Chavez just because he wanted to redistribute wealth to the poor. I don't know why US governments seem to have a problem with the redistribution of wealth. The US government supports regimes that are worse than Chavez, who I accept is losing the plot rather quickly. Chavez in the beginning was doing no more than what most European governments do, ie, redistribute wealth so why the Bush regime had a problem with Chavez and not Europe I have no idea but I could guess. Oil?

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 7/26/2007 10:54:33 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 10:55:27 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		[FR]

Chavez is far from perfect, but he hasn't tried to overthrow the legitimate government of the US. The US, in contrast, has tried to overthrow the legitimate government of Venezuala, as well as other countries. It's not left wing to point that out, but an aversion to humbug and selective morality. The US would have a far more respected voice around the world if it stopped such double standards in its foreign policy.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 11:03:32 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Masternslave07

Attention Bush haters. Take a look at Chavez. He is an actual dictator. And a Leftist to boot. I know this may be tough to understand, but please try.


BFD. If The People of Venezuela have any issues with Chavez, IT IS THEIR PROBLEM.

If they want to have a Revolution, or otherwise change their Government, that is THEIR RIGHT.

As is their acceptance of their Current Government.

The US needs to cleanup their OWN SHIT FIRST.

( Tossing people in the hole for 1300 days without trial, counsel, arraignment, etc. renders the US unable to criticize at all! )






Farg, yup, the Venezuelan People voted for this guy and now they "don't like him" so they want to claim "Refugee" or "Asylum" status and come to the U.S.?
Why can't they go to Colombia or another Central or South American country?
They don't "need" to come to the U.S.
We really do need to get rid of those "Asylum" and "Refugee" programs.
There's a thousand ways to scam them.
Venezuela made their own bed, let them lie in it!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 11:33:19 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yes, we need those vast oil reserves in North Korea




Level:
More likely the tungsten, which is why we went to war there the last time.
thompson


Was that the codename of the operation for the attack of South Korea by the communists in 1950?


Level:
Korea is one country.
thompson

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 11:39:16 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Masternslave07

Attention Bush haters. Take a look at Chavez. He is an actual dictator. And a Leftist to boot. I know this may be tough to understand, but please try.


BFD. If The People of Venezuela have any issues with Chavez, IT IS THEIR PROBLEM.

If they want to have a Revolution, or otherwise change their Government, that is THEIR RIGHT.

As is their acceptance of their Current Government.

The US needs to cleanup their OWN SHIT FIRST.

( Tossing people in the hole for 1300 days without trial, counsel, arraignment, etc. renders the US unable to criticize at all! )






Farg, yup, the Venezuelan People voted for this guy and now they "don't like him" so they want to claim "Refugee" or "Asylum" status and come to the U.S.?
Why can't they go to Colombia or another Central or South American country?
They don't "need" to come to the U.S.
We really do need to get rid of those "Asylum" and "Refugee" programs.
There's a thousand ways to scam them.
Venezuela made their own bed, let them lie in it!


popeye:
You would not happen to have any facts to back up this bigoted twaddle would you?
Who are you going to rag on when all the "brown" ones are gone?
On the up side you can always be counted on to inject your bigoted two cents worth into any thread.  At least you are consistent.
thompson

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 11:51:11 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I think your issue is, you want to say your piece, without being challenged on it.


        Wrong.  Challenge what I said, instead of hiding behind canned, off-topic bullshit to drag it off on a tangent and make the conversation about something else.

    I've been encountering quite a bit of that strawman nonsense on this board lately, from people too cowardly to actually discuss an issue, and would rather just  pretend to be stupid in an attempt to "shout down" ideas that don't fit their shallow, hate-filled, paradigms.

      The subsidized housing thing has become a front-page issue in my little city.  It's going to be fun to watch too, since our mayor is a member of the same minority group who is already starting to yell rascism.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 3:40:25 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Laughing..."Yeah, I ain't no dictator, and to prove it I'm gonna deport your gringo ass if you come to my country callin' me a dictator."

Chavez's recent political moves are shocking and dangerous.  I really think leftists need to stop apologizing for him.  Just because he stands up to Bush doesn't mean he's a good guy.



Well said, Lam. Those on the left that defend him will never, no matter what, cease doing so. They still defend Castro, as far as I can tell.


Level. It was the US that forced Castro's hand by not dealing with his new regime because he overthrew a US supported dictator. Originally Castro didn't have an ideology other than to get rid of Batista but the US's demonizing of the new Cuban regime and imposing a blockade made the USSR's wooing of Cuba look attractive. A similar thing is happening with Chavez just because he wanted to redistribute wealth to the poor. I don't know why US governments seem to have a problem with the redistribution of wealth. The US government supports regimes that are worse than Chavez, who I accept is losing the plot rather quickly. Chavez in the beginning was doing no more than what most European governments do, ie, redistribute wealth so why the Bush regime had a problem with Chavez and not Europe I have no idea but I could guess. Oil?


Castro has done what Castro wanted to do, MC. It isn't on us.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 3:41:39 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yes, we need those vast oil reserves in North Korea




Level:
More likely the tungsten, which is why we went to war there the last time.
thompson


Was that the codename of the operation for the attack of South Korea by the communists in 1950?


Level:
Korea is one country.
thompson


Not in a long, long time it hasn't been.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 6:41:35 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Well said, Lam. Those on the left that defend him will never, no matter what, cease doing so. They still defend Castro, as far as I can tell.



I dont defend Chavez or Castro.  I simply point out that the US has a lot of nerve criticizing how other people run their countries while our country goes to the dogs.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 7:51:26 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Well said, Lam. Those on the left that defend him will never, no matter what, cease doing so. They still defend Castro, as far as I can tell.



I dont defend Chavez or Castro.  I simply point out that the US has a lot of nerve criticizing how other people run their countries while our country goes to the dogs.

Sinergy


But Sinergy, you're not on the "Left."
You're intelligent.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 7:57:03 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

But Sinergy, you're not on the "Left."
You're intelligent.



Thank you for the lovely compliment, popeye1250.

I would agree with those on the right if any of them (with the exception of ruPaul) demonstrated possession of a functional brain.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 8:01:11 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		      Careful, Sinergy.  Those Coasties sometimes get awful lonely out at sea...  First they tell you you're smart, then funny, then they wanna wash your back...

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 8:05:01 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Hmmmm, I don't know about that, Marc, Bush is in excellent health, while Chavez is a bit chunky.


Bush is too much of a patrician to really know how kick serious ass whereas Chavez has that dock worker brawler look to him. Now, if it was a fencing duel, then I’d put my money on Bush.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 8:10:18 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     Careful, Sinergy.  Those Coasties sometimes get awful lonely out at sea...  First they tell you you're smart, then funny, then they wanna wash your back...


Then they get to sit on ice cubes for 12 hours after their testicles are smashed by a full power knee kick.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/26/2007 9:31:00 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yes, we need those vast oil reserves in North Korea




Level:
More likely the tungsten, which is why we went to war there the last time.
thompson


Was that the codename of the operation for the attack of South Korea by the communists in 1950?


Level:
Korea is one country.
thompson


Not in a long, long time it hasn't been.


Level:
Do you suppose that if the U.S. Army were not there to prevent it that that country would not be reunited? 
One day the tungsten hole will dry up and on that day the U.S. will have no further reason to keep the country of Korea divided.  All the talk of freedom and democracy and the evil commie bastards and so forth will cease to be relevant.
No I do not care what happens to them.  They are Koreans and I think the Koreans should solve their own problems.  I am an American and we have enough of our own problems and I think we should solve our own problems and let the rest of the world solve theirs.
thompson

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/27/2007 1:41:59 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		The reunification would come in on a torrent of blood, if at all. But, as you mention, some don't care.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Venezuela and dissent - 7/27/2007 7:00:53 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

The reunification would come in on a torrent of blood, if at all. But, as you mention, some don't care.

Level:
Our own country was reunified in a torrent of blood.  It would not be my preferred course but still I believe it is their problem and not ours.
thompson

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 60
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