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RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 4:14:47 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The White House police have bigger ones...

If anyone's going to run a pool, I got 25 bucks on the Congress.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 21

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 6:03:58 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The White House police have bigger ones...

They have to leave the White House sometime.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 22

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 7:31:03 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Owner, I think the American side is innocenet untill proven guilty on criminal charges.

I take it then you approve of "Scooter" Libby`s" treachery and deceit.Which hurt the CIA, America and it`s security.This isn`t a news paper story, or an opinion piece,or conjecture.
This is fact and on the record.

This isn`t silly banter on a message board,this is real and as serious as a heart attack.Libby is a straight up crook,and a traitor.If you`re for defending him,like so many republicans are,you`re against America.There`s just no other way to put it. Support Libby =being against America.

Former top aid to Dick Chaney and felon "Scooter" Libby`s trail ended with his guilt.The "innocent till proven guilty" talking points are old.He has been proven guilty by a jury.There`s no avoiding the questions anymore.

I think you`re just trying to weasel out of answering.You`re so clever at that.If you were honest ,you`d just tell us what you think about felon "Scooter"Libby.Weather you admired him or loathed him. Support Libby =being against America.

So to bring you up to speed,he was proven guilty of obstruction of justice and perjury charges.Trial`s over,no more obfuscation,or weasel words,no more shirking.

I`ll ask again luckydog,are you with America,or with the felon?Can`t be both.

Avoiding the question will be taken as your endorsement of criminals like "Scooter".

Peace

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/26/2007 7:38:08 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 23

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 7:50:25 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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In his summation, the prosecuting attorney stated that his real target was Dick Cheney, but since Scooter Libby committed perjury, the real criminal was allowed to continue his Reign of Error. Scooter Libby got thrown under a bus by the Bush administration.

Frankly, I dont really know whether to feel sorry for him or want him to spend the rest of his life sucking off Bubba in Terminal Island Federal Penitentiary.

Sinergy

edited because not enough "him"s.

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 7/26/2007 7:51:14 PM >

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 24

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 8:03:31 PM

luckydog1

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Joined: 1/16/2006
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We are talking about Alberto on this thread. You are really bad about jumping topics and ranting. Since Scooter commited no acts of treason, I don't call him a traitor. He did not get convicted of treason, he did not even get charged with releasing Plame's name. He did not do it. I already gave my opinion of his case. Guilty of a minor charge, and Bush was weaseling, he should either have served the full term of been fully pardoned, I think splitting it was BS. But that has nothing to with the issue on this thread.

If you want to pretend I am against America, go for it....It's a free country.

I still stand by my opening post on this thread. If Alberto is lying Fry em, but I am going to wait and see.

Where this is going Schumer will demand that the classified information from the meeting be released (in order to determine exactly which programs were being discussed, it really would be the only way), and methods we are using to track terrorists will be compromised. The same thing goes with full Due process Criminal Trials for the illegal combatants.

To me that is being against America, wanting to expose methods we use to defend the nation. And in 08 we will vote on it, and see which side wins. Do remember the quotes of people on your side of this and many issues like Farg, "Frankly, the USA can go fuck itself." and the rest of the crew. I bet that will sell real well with the average middle of the road voter.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 25

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 8:07:20 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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They can release classified information into court.

It will, however, require appropriate security classifications on everybody involved and require the classification of the court documents.

This was tried in Watergate. The Executive branch can claim it is classified, but they cannot use that excuse to refuse to provide the appropriate evidence to Congress.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 26

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 9:53:33 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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Oh, the irony.

Tell that to a few hundred unlucky sons o' bitches in Guantanamo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Owner, I think the American side is innocenet untill proven guilty on criminal charges.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 27

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 11:21:34 PM

luckydog1

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Joined: 1/16/2006
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LAM not a single one of them is there for criminal violations. They are not civil criminals breaking American Law

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 28

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 11:30:23 PM

Lordandmaster

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Are you kidding? What exactly has the Constitutional impasse of the past four years been about--if not how and where to try them? What was Hamdan v. Rumsfeld?

You really need to make sure you have a basic grasp of the issues if you're going to get involved in debates about politics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

LAM not a single one of them is there for criminal violations.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 29

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 11:57:19 PM

luckydog1

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LAM if they were civilian criminals there would be no debate about what to do with them. thhe fact that there has been a lenghty, and yet unresolved, debate over it is proof that my assertion is correct, that they are not "there for criminal violations. They are not civil criminals breaking American Law ".

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 30

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/26/2007 11:59:49 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

Guilty of a minor charge

If you think Perjury and Obstruction of Justice from the VP's CHIEF OF STAFF is something minor...

Well, it says a lot about ones PERSONAL ETHICS, doesn't it?

( But then again, it seems that the simple, clear phrase "ANY PERSON" provides some challenges for you, eh? )

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/27/2007 12:02:50 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 31

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 12:01:17 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

We are talking about Alberto on this thread. You are really bad about jumping topics and ranting. Since Scooter commited no acts of treason, I don't call him a traitor. He did not get convicted of treason, he did not even get charged with releasing Plame's name. He did not do it. I already gave my opinion of his case. Guilty of a minor charge, and Bush was weaseling, he should either have served the full term of been fully pardoned, I think splitting it was BS. But that has nothing to with the issue on this thread.

If you want to pretend I am against America, go for it....It's a free country.

I still stand by my opening post on this thread. If Alberto is lying Fry em, but I am going to wait and see.

Where this is going Schumer will demand that the classified information from the meeting be released (in order to determine exactly which programs were being discussed, it really would be the only way), and methods we are using to track terrorists will be compromised. The same thing goes with full Due process Criminal Trials for the illegal combatants.

To me that is being against America, wanting to expose methods we use to defend the nation. And in 08 we will vote on it, and see which side wins. Do remember the quotes of people on your side of this and many issues like Farg, "Frankly, the USA can go fuck itself." and the rest of the crew. I bet that will sell real well with the average middle of the road voter.

Nah, they can *easily* nail Alberto to the wall with his unclassified witness tampering re: Monica Goodling.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 32

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 10:45:01 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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First of all, luckydog, your statement can't be correct because it makes no sense. "Civil criminal" is gibberish. Second, they are being held for crimes, and the whole debate, including Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, has been over how to charge them with those (alleged) crimes. I think you're trying to make the point that they've been classified as "enemy combatants," and therefore aren't afforded the same protections as American citizens. But that doesn't mean they're not being held for crimes. Nor does it mean that they aren't innocent until proven guilty under our legal system.

Nor, for that matter, do you really know that none of them are American citizens.

And that's all I'm going to say about this, because it's evident that you just don't possess the necessary information to discuss the issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

LAM if they were civilian criminals there would be no debate about what to do with them. thhe fact that there has been a lenghty, and yet unresolved, debate over it is proof that my assertion is correct, that they are not "there for criminal violations. They are not civil criminals breaking American Law ".

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 33

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 11:10:03 AM

luckydog1

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Joined: 1/16/2006
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Lam, maybe you are not aware that there are several differnt systems of justice. Civil law is one. There is also Maritime Law, and Millitary law(probably others as well). All have different rights and procedures. It is not against US Criminal law for a Syrian to go to Afghanistan and join Al Queda to make war on the Great Satan (USA), but we are going to do something about it. By "Civil Criminal", I mean one who has broken our domestic civilian laws, maybe that is not the technical term for it.

Few if any have been charged with a crime, please cite the crimes if you can. They are being held as illegal combatants, and there is a huge debate involving all 3 branches of the Gov on what the heck to do with them.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 34

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 11:13:02 AM

HaveRopeWillBind

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Joined: 7/15/2006
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So does this mean that if congress goes ahead with the perjury charges that Gonzales will have to arrest himself?

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 35

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 11:21:04 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Lam, maybe you are not aware that there are several differnt systems of justice. Civil law is one. There is also Maritime Law, and Millitary law(probably others as well). All have different rights and procedures. It is not against US Criminal law for a Syrian to go to Afghanistan and join Al Queda to make war on the Great Satan (USA), but we are going to do something about it. By "Civil Criminal", I mean one who has broken our domestic civilian laws, maybe that is not the technical term for it.

Few if any have been charged with a crime, please cite the crimes if you can. They are being held as illegal combatants, and there is a huge debate involving all 3 branches of the Gov on what the heck to do with them.

No there isn't. Bush is acting UNCONSTITUTIONALLY.

The 14th Amendment is REALLY CLEAR. It says "ANY PERSON"

Y'all do know what "ANY" and "PERSON" mean, don't you?

Or are you going to fall back to Klin-ton, and engage in a discussion of what the meaning of "IS" is?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 36

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 11:53:19 AM

luckydog1

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Joined: 1/16/2006
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Actually it says far more than that Farg.

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

As you are well aware there are different areas of Law in the USA, MAritime, Millitary, Civil, ect. All are treated differently. You get far fewer rights and "due process" means something different if you are being tried under millitary law, than under civilian law. You know this. There is a huge on going debate over exactly how to handle this. But they are not civilian criminals, and they re not fighting under Geneva rules, so we have to come up with new rules.

Honestly it would be better if the democrats would help craft them instead of playing politics. Constituionally it is up to the Congress to establish the courts to deal with this. The Reps tried (twice I think) but the courts shot it down. If they get full civilian Due process (the right to confront thier accusers and witnesses against them, the right to fully examine the nature of all evidence, publically), it will require letting them go, or exposing agents and methods.

But you have already explained to us what you want to happen to the USA, so the reason for you making the argument you do is quite clear.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 37

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 12:02:29 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Lam, maybe you are not aware that there are several differnt systems of justice. Civil law is one. There is also Maritime Law, and Millitary law(probably others as well). All have different rights and procedures. It is not against US Criminal law for a Syrian to go to Afghanistan and join Al Queda to make war on the Great Satan (USA), but we are going to do something about it. By "Civil Criminal", I mean one who has broken our domestic civilian laws, maybe that is not the technical term for it.

Few if any have been charged with a crime, please cite the crimes if you can. They are being held as illegal combatants, and there is a huge debate involving all 3 branches of the Gov on what the heck to do with them.

luckydog1,

Until the people held in Gitmo have their day in court, nobody knows what their status is, what their citizenship is, who they really are, or anything else about them. That is why we have criminal trials in this country, to establish factual information relating to a person and their alleged crime. This way we can avoid travesties of justice and unlawful imprisonment and other sorts of things which the founding father's determined would be bad things.

The reason they are being held at Gitmo (which is on foreign soil) by the US military (answerable to the President) is because if they were brought into this country and came under US juridiction, they would be allowed to face their accusers, have the right to legal counsel, be considered innocent until proven guilty, etc.

So the President, since he made this oath thingie to uphold the Constitution, flagrantly violates the law by using all sorts of end-runs around the principles this country was founded on. The reason he got away with it was having the previous legislative branches failing miserably in their oversight function. The reason he still gets away with it has to do with a bunch of US attorneys (who could bring him up for investigation) who got the axe, and the continued nonsense going on in the Legislative branch.

I think it is a disgrace.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 38

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 4:28:24 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

Constituionally it is up to the Congress to establish the courts to deal with this.

We HAVE Courts to deal with this.

Bush LOST THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT when he held Padilla for 1300 DAYS without Counsel, Arraignment or Trial.

Since he's proven himself unworthy of The People's Trust, why would you think otherwise?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/27/2007 4:29:46 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 39

RE: Endgame: AGonzo commits perjury. - 7/27/2007 4:47:01 PM

Petronius

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I can see the Bushies going "Perjury? What Perjury? He wasn't talking about THAT when he spoke about THAT. Everybody but you brain-damaged treasonous liberals knows that when he was talking about THAT he was really talking about SOME OTHER THING,"

Remember after claiming that Iraq had WMDs Bush's supporters tried to dance out of it with the claim that Bush only quoted the British.

Let's face it. People who have no trouble believing what does not exist (WMDs, Iraqi involvement in 9/11, "Mission Accomplished") can easily disbelieve what does exist.

And for the more far out sense: Bush announces that G. has been arrested but that as the President and chief executive officer Bush defines the meaning of the word "arrest."

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 40

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