RE: Separation of people vrs state...

RE: Separation of people vrs state... (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/25/2007 7:45:21 PM)
MasDom, You started this thread talking about the Electoral College. I simply pointed out that the Electoral College has one (1) job. They read the votes of their constituency into the record and counting their votes determines who is President and Vice-President. From what I am reading about your posts, the institution you are chastising for not being in keeping with the will and desires of the citizens of the United States would be the Senate and the House of Representatives. Sinergy

Griswold -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/25/2007 10:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasDom When I look back I often wounder why the government is set up the way it is. How we had fallen from for the people by the people to this hypocrasy... The rich idiots in charge , and a lacking in our true ability to oppose them. If it were my choice i,d issue a few new rules to better this... First i,d make a national voting system were every one gets a card like social security. *We have that now, only it's not "like* Social Security"...it is Social Security. then if the president is an air head you can simply vote him out of office period... We have that now...it's called "an election". Anything close to 90 percent shouldn't be questioned by any form of government.. We have that now, but they took your idea and went one better....51% does the trick! Secondly i,d open that voting up to all the other air heads in office. Actually, as you may have read over the years...elections are open to everyone, airheads and others alike. This would simply ensure that if your not really for the people, you can piss off.... (Gawwwwd...this is amazing....they thought of everything you did!)**

luckydog1 -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/25/2007 11:35:11 PM)
No Sinergy that makes no sense, it would take just as long to count the votes and send the certified totals off to the capital. They intentionally did NOT want a direct vote of the people for president, not even the white property owning people. It was directly copied from the Ancient Roman Republican system. It was part of the large population state/ small population state contraversy, which The Roman Republic also faced. More people live in certain Boroghs of New York than in my state, so New York gets more of a vote, but we get more than if it was direct.

Owner59 -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/26/2007 9:11:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasDom When I look back I often wounder why the government is set up the way it is. How we had fallen from for the people by the people to this hypocrasy... The rich idiots in charge , and a lacking in our true ability to oppose them. If it were my choice i,d issue a few new rules to better this... First i,d make a national voting system were every one gets a card like social security. then if the president is an air head you can simply vote him out of office period... Anything close to 90 percent shouldn't be questioned by any form of government.. Secondly i,d open that voting up to all the other air heads in office. This would simply ensure that if your not really for the people, you can piss off.... "When I look back I often wounder why the government is set up the way it is. How we had fallen from for the people by the people to this hypocrasy... The rich idiots in charge , and a lacking in our true ability to oppose them." Good queston. That`s just human nature,MasDom.Every society on earth,from the most primitive to the brightest,suffers from the "deadly sins"(greed,averice,jealousy,etc)As Bruce wrote so clearly,"all men wanna be rich,rich men wanna be king,and a king ain`t satisfied,till he rules everything" Our government was set up by smart men,who knew human nature and the tendencies of men(and women).That`s exactly why we have checks and balances w/ co equal branches of government. We`re deffinately getting away from what the founding fathers wanted.They didn`t want secrete government,un-checked power,or a weakening of the constitution,like we have now. Unless you have breifcases full of hundreds,you won`t have a say in our government.You do have a vote,(unless the republicans steal it) and more freedom here than any other part of the world. I like your suggestion on voter registration.If we could make it hack proof.But voting is done state by state with 50 different sets of rules.We can do much better though. Peace

NorthernGent -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/28/2007 5:08:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasDom When I look back I often wounder why the government is set up the way it is. You'll have to go a long way back for the answers. At least as far as the prophet of the English business commonwealth, of the rule of law, toleration and limited monarchy/rulers. Particularly pertinent to your question is the fact that he was a product of the growing English mercantile classes of the time and, consequently, he placed great store in the freedoms that should be allowed for individual business initiatives. This has underpinned English government pretty much ever since, and I'll take a guess that the initial English colonists and future generations of Americans took a certain amount of inspiration from Locke. Then I'd suggest looking at those who Locke drew inspiration from such as Thomas Hobbes who proposed government borne out of sheer usefulness at the expense of divine right. Today's Western political framework (particularly in England and the US) is a liberal market democracy affair that is not too far removed from the ideas of Locke and Hobbes. Particularly the protection of private property and the commercial classes. Ultimately, the/any people get the government they deserve, and where the aspirations of the people amount to protection of private property and commerce, then the members of the government and multi-nationals will also claim the right to trade as they please and have their private property protected. They will legitimately claim they are not doing anything which contradicts the actions of the people or the political framework.

MasDom -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/31/2007 4:54:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Griswold quote: ORIGINAL: MasDom When I look back I often wounder why the government is set up the way it is. How we had fallen from for the people by the people to this hypocrasy... The rich idiots in charge , and a lacking in our true ability to oppose them. If it were my choice i,d issue a few new rules to better this... First i,d make a national voting system were every one gets a card like social security. *We have that now, only it's not "like* Social Security"...it is Social Security. -The point made is that a secondary card would be required, due to the out break of people stealing your identity. In this case would a vote be worth loosing all your Cash over? then if the president is an air head you can simply vote him out of office period... We have that now...it's called "an election". -You mean the one election we have at the start of a presidents career?...Were is the election to vote some one out that the people can be involved in?- Anything close to 90 percent shouldn't be questioned by any form of government.. We have that now, but they took your idea and went one better....51% does the trick! -Even so, those are the same people in the government that are usually heavily influenced by that president...And to prove that theory I still claim that if a good 60 to 70 percent of todays populace wants bush out, why aren't they acting on it?....So thats the vote your talking about...The one that seems to not be working.- Secondly i,d open that voting up to all the other air heads in office. Actually, as you may have read over the years...elections are open to everyone, airheads and others alike. -And who ever votes for a third party or has herd about them in the first place?....Do you really think Reverend Sam can ever hope to hold a campaign like Bush's son?....errogant..At least one of these candidates had actually brought up government funding for public campaigns, And why do you suppose he did that?...- This would simply ensure that if your not really for the people, you can piss off.... (Gawwwwd...this is amazing....they thought of everything you did!)** -Still don't see what your getting at past my bad writting...-

MasDom -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/31/2007 5:18:01 PM)
Oh now you've got me started... Quote this..... To serve the people and private residents... Uh mean like the search and seizure laws currently in effect, were if your on a secrete list they can completely evict you, or all the other reasons they have for imminent domain acts?.....Lovely isn't that... But tell me this. Name one fucking rich republican that has ever had their homes seized by the goverment?..... I,m sure their must be one... 1. All I,m saying is with a president that shadows Nixon. 2. Mass spending with an already failing economy. 3. A medical plan for the vets coming home that was already failing from the start... 4. failing crops, and agricultural growth. 6. our dependency on gasoline really hitting home as prices rise. 7. a failing leader ship for are army in the first place. ,....On and on that this shit needs to change... And the fuckers driving, are out of their collective minds... If this is my government? Then tell me were the steering wheel is, because I want to make a pit stop at sanity lane, and deal with a few things along the way...

MasDom -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/31/2007 5:21:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy MasDom, You started this thread talking about the Electoral College. I simply pointed out that the Electoral College has one (1) job. They read the votes of their constituency into the record and counting their votes determines who is President and Vice-President. From what I am reading about your posts, the institution you are chastising for not being in keeping with the will and desires of the citizens of the United States would be the Senate and the House of Representatives. Sinergy -No offense sinergy but are you talking about the voteing machines that were malfunctioning, or were you talking about the votes that never got used because of it?...-

QuietlySeeking -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/31/2007 5:31:07 PM)
Actually, in the history of the Electoral College, there have only been two times when the delegate to the Electoral College did not vote for the candidate that won the state. Once it was a mistake, once it was intentional. In neither case did it affect the outcome of the election. Actually the Electoral College served an excellent purpose in the election of 2000. It prevented a nationwide vote recount that would have crippled the federal gov't probably until late 2001. It provided the general public a good education into the concept of a democratic republic....we vote for representatives who then elect the president. BTW, a true democracy would require presidential candidates to only campaign in about eight states....how's that for disenfranchising the majority of the population of the US? If you truly want to change the US, make sure that everyone votes!

CuriousLord -> RE: Separation of people vrs state... (7/31/2007 5:41:01 PM)
I'd like to assure you.. it is a very good thing that the common population doesn't set laws. Politicians are much brighter and nobler than most seem to credit them with. It seems citizens are likely whiny children, all mad at their parents for not giving them their way, taking the things they get for granted and the things they don't as atrocities against the universe. Not that so many posts on such issues on Internet forums is, by any means, empiracl evidence of this.

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