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not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 1:30:03 PM

ELUSIVE1

Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
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I was reading a forum post at b.com where the 'newbie' as asking about the 'emotional drop' after her dominant has left, after a scene,or just time together...one person responded that it was just an emotional let down after emotions ran so high..not a physical thing...I totally disagree...yes I do play hard and there are times when I am released from being bound and whipped that my body shakes, trembling but I am not cold...as if I was just shot with epinephrin...my 'enorphins' rush is peaking..and nothing but time will stop this trembling..so what do you think...do you beleive that 'sub drop' is indeed physical as well as emotional??

_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/

Post #: 1

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 1:39:40 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

If you equate 'chemical' with physical, then you already know the answer to this question - 'yes'.

I've never witnessed sub drop myself, but nearly all occurrences of playing with someone they were living with me. If I didn't hear of it relatively often here, I wouldn't necessarily believe the phenomenon.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 2

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 1:45:06 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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Anything that deals with brain chemistry is both emotional and physical. Just ask my psychiatrist. LOL

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 3

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 2:02:28 PM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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I've experienced both before so yes, I agree both are real.
For me I mainly end up with pressure in my middle of my back like a stiffness after I play.
If I play really hard I also have some lethargy the next day.
Back when I began my sub journey I was emotionally sub dropping behind heavy scenes some.
I thought it related to heavy play and my body not being use to processing the dopamine and endorphins that caused it.
Now that I'm not with that Dom any longer I think it was related to relationship circumstances between the Dom and I that were just being magnified rather than caused by the play.

Now I'm in an emotionally healthy relationship with a Dom I've been dating for 4 months.
Even when we've played harder than I have in over a year I do not have any emotional sub drop.
I agree behind heavy scenes there are indeed going to be physical things left behind and some exhaustion, but I'm beginning to wonder if emotional sub drop is caused by play, or if it's just all your issues seem more magnified after playing and delving into such a bonding thing with someone you should not be bonding like that with, or that pushed your emotional limits too hard.
suzanne

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 4

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 3:29:49 PM

shyinini

Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
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I have a totally different definition of subdrop. As others have expressed in the last go-round thread on subdrop.

My POV is that after care is supposed to take place to help the submissive with the physical release of these endorphins and everything else the hypothalmus wants to push into our body so that mentally and emotionally we are not left in a state much like what the bunjee jumper expereinces after the rush of the initial plunge. Or like the roller coaster fanatic as he plunges. So to answer your question, it is emotionalmental and physicalbut I dont refer to THAT as subdrop.

As documented on several sites by profession types, I do believe subdrop is an emotional seperation that begins when we realize that the Dom/me who took us "there" is not here right now and and we must either adjust as submissives or start a course of possible dispression or anxiety until we are able to approach our Dom/me again with our emotional plight. Climaxing in physical attachment.

This I am VERY acutely aware of in myself...as it is something I have had to work on. It usually hits me 2 or 3 days after I have been in his intense sexual control and even tho I have spoken to him numerous times in between, emotionally I am anxious and depressed and I want to physically be near him again.

Either way you want to label it.... it's all very emotional, mental and physical.

Sir's learning girl

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 5

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 3:41:23 PM

angelslave77

Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

Ok wow it has a name, I experienced this after a session that was both intense physically and emotionally, physically my body was absolutely shaking to the point it was hard to sand, and emotionally it was gut wrenching for other reasons. But even without the emotional I believe the physical response would have been the same because the two were (well to me anyway) very clearly different.

Dont know if that makes any sense and I am kinda happy I learned something new today.

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 6

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 3:49:59 PM

bbwdommelilith

Posts: 81
Joined: 10/25/2006
Status: offline

Because of the sporadic nature of my meetings with a former dom, I experienced "sub drop" as emotional abandonment because of the intensity of the connection that we had made. We would "scene" and then I would always spend the night either face-to-face with our arms wrapped around each other, or with his arm over me and his warm body pressed against my back. When I awakened in the morning I would have to charge off to work, usually leavung him in bed (I won't go into why we rarely met on the weekends) and the contrast between the previous night's bond and the abrupt disconnection was too great. I would "glow" for a few hours, then experience a sudden drop in my mood which made the workday very difficult to tolerate.

Lilith

"When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks into you."

(in reply to shyinini)

Post #: 7

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 5:42:59 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Is it real? My Master bottomed for me this week, for the first time in three years, as I wanted a guinea pig to try out a new violet wand. He allowed me to partially restrain him (only partially, he's too "Dom" to even allow full restraint) and had worked himself up into a right state before I even came near him with it. The first time I touched him, he screamed - it wasn't even turned on. He twitched and sqwarked and carried on like a pig at the slaughter house. I tried a gag but that made him panic even more and he threatened to be sick. By the time the scene was over I had tears of laughter running down my cheeks and he was a total mess.

It was only afterwards that the learning kicked in. The first point was that I gave him very inadequate aftercare, not realizing that he had gone into some sort of subspace. It wasn't until I realized that he was pale and shaking that I twigged to what was going on and wrapped him up and sorted him out. It had never occurred to me that someone could be so far gone on so little - he basically mindfucked himself.

So was that "subdrop"? - well, whatever label you want to pin on it, it was real and it happened, under somewhat unusual circumstances, whether chemical or emotional.

Another odd one - one of our cats loves to be spanked, long and hard. After a while, she goes into a state where she droops and relaxes, and her eyes cross and roll, just like a submissive does. So even cats can go there, and it's not got a lot to do with the emotions, I'd have to guess.

:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 8

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 7:36:43 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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What MasterFireMaam said.

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(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 9

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 7:47:00 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

I was reading a forum post at b.com where the 'newbie' as asking about the 'emotional drop' after her dominant has left, after a scene,or just time together...one person responded that it was just an emotional let down after emotions ran so high..not a physical thing...I totally disagree...yes I do play hard and there are times when I am released from being bound and whipped that my body shakes, trembling but I am not cold...as if I was just shot with epinephrin...my 'enorphins' rush is peaking..and nothing but time will stop this trembling..so what do you think...do you beleive that 'sub drop' is indeed physical as well as emotional??

Maybe the person responding was trying to state that the sad, lonely feeling one might get when their Dom leaves after a visit is not the same as the feeling that comes after hard, physical play.

I have always known sub drop to refer to the chemical reactions that follow a day or two after play. In recent years I have seen many confuse that with the let down feeling of seperation....or sometimes even the feeling of subspace that occurs during play.

They are very different things and if that is what the person responding was trying to express I would have to agree with them. The emotional let down of seperation is not sub drop.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 10

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/17/2007 8:15:30 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

Oh dear! Knowing you both, I have to say Master and I had a chuckle over this post ... the brave Master J reduced to ... ah poor chap, just shows how Domly He is if He can mindfuck Himself! Perhaps this belongs on the "do subs have more courage?" thread too. However, humour aside, there IS an important lesson to be learned here and that is that anyone who bottoms can go into some altered state at any time, irregardless of how much or little was apparently done to them and what their usual role is. In fact, it's possibly much scarier for someone who is usually Top to open themselves up to be so vulnerable, they're not used to dealing with that situation and the feelings it creates at all. Someone who habitually bottoms develops strategies for dealing with that feeling.

From what I know of the physiology involved, it seems the chemicals (ie adrenalin and endorphins) are largely responsible for both the passage into sub space and the possible drop after. In bdsm play, it is usually (but not exclusively) physical stimuli (such as pain) that gets a person into sub space. However, as LadyHeart saw, fear (an emotion) can do the trick too! It would seem that Master J's "fight or flight" response had been well and truly triggered and what He experienced afterwards was an adrenalin after-shock. Poor man never got to the endorphins! Similarly, it would seem that the reversal from sub space can be mediated by both physical and emotional factors, including (but not exclusively) aftercare. What else is going on in a sub's life (such as personal fitness and sense of wellbeing, time of month in a female or other external stressors such as home situation, job, other friends etc etc) can also influence whether they drop or not, it is not 100% under the Dom/me's control. The best a Dom/me can do is give the best physical and emotional aftercare they can, and then keep in touch with the sub and follow up as needed.

Master and I both hope that Master J is now feeling back to His usual Domly self and that you at least learnt something useful about the new violet wand! Just hoping He doesn't plan to use it on you any time soon LH!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 11

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/18/2007 4:49:54 AM

ELUSIVE1

Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

Is it real? My Master bottomed for me this week, for the first time in three years, as I wanted a guinea pig to try out a new violet wand. He allowed me to partially restrain him (only partially, he's too "Dom" to even allow full restraint) and had worked himself up into a right state before I even came near him with it. The first time I touched him, he screamed - it wasn't even turned on. He twitched and sqwarked and carried on like a pig at the slaughter house. I tried a gag but that made him panic even more and he threatened to be sick. By the time the scene was over I had tears of laughter running down my cheeks and he was a total mess.

It was only afterwards that the learning kicked in. The first point was that I gave him very inadequate aftercare, not realizing that he had gone into some sort of subspace. It wasn't until I realized that he was pale and shaking that I twigged to what was going on and wrapped him up and sorted him out. It had never occurred to me that someone could be so far gone on so little - he basically mindfucked himself.

So was that "subdrop"? - well, whatever label you want to pin on it, it was real and it happened, under somewhat unusual circumstances, whether chemical or emotional.

Another odd one - one of our cats loves to be spanked, long and hard. After a while, she goes into a state where she droops and relaxes, and her eyes cross and roll, just like a submissive does. So even cats can go there, and it's not got a lot to do with the emotions, I'd have to guess.

:))
LH

Very interesting...I wonder if his experience will change the way he uses the wand on you??or his aftercare of you??

_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 12

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/18/2007 10:58:09 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

...do you beleive that 'sub drop' is indeed physical as well as emotional??...

some folks describe sub drop as if they were experiencing, physically and emotionally, something this slave has learned personally to ascribe to either an anxiety/panic attack or a typical day in the life of someone with severe symptoms of pregnancy.

others describe it as only emotional, and not physical at all.

after all of the endless discussions, this slave ends up putting "sub drop" in the same category of words as "slave", "artistic" and "beautiful"...WHOLLY subjective and unique to the particular individual who is perceiving it and/or using it as a self-identifier.

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 13

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/18/2007 11:43:12 AM

daddyscherry

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/10/2007
From: Daddy's Tower, CA
Status: offline

my understanding of sub drop is that it can begin the day after to even days after the scene and is equated to post partum depression in the way you feel while experiencing it.

i experienced it recently for the first time after intense impact play...but i also think i experienced it after an intense public sexual scene once. i also got PMS in the midst of the sub drop which compounded the issue.

From what i read (from someone on here who wrote an essay about it) is that it is something that comes from the body readjusting to baseline after the intense chemical rush (epinephrine,endorphines etc) of a scene. This makes totaly sense.

This would say that yes, it is physical but that the physical manifests itself mentally and emotionally (maybe much in the way PMS is a physical/chemical thing in the body that manifests itself in mental and emotional upheaval)

It could also be something simply mental/emotional that is just the come down from a really exciting event...i used to do dumb little local fahsion shows when i was younger and every thing in my world revolved around those shows for weeks per each show...fittings/rehearsal etc...once the shows were over and every little thing that had been my existence was gone i would sink into a depression. So maybe for some people it is simply something like that.

_____________________________

~cherry
a.k.a. charismagirrl

For today i won't say but...
For today i won't say just....
For today i will simply obey...
For always i will be your imperfect slave.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 14

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/18/2007 2:19:43 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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Considering the worst drops for me have come when we've played long and hard until the night, gotten just a couple of hours of sleep and continued first thing in the morning without food or drink, I know the physical plays a huge part. These days we take breaks after a couple of hours for water and to warm up, frequently with a half hour nap. We think ahead about food and I never play anymore after not eating all day.

Same two people, much more consideration of the physical and much lower drops.

(in reply to daddyscherry)

Post #: 15

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/18/2007 2:38:57 PM

CrazyC

Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

...do you beleive that 'sub drop' is indeed physical as well as emotional??...

some folks describe sub drop as if they were experiencing, physically and emotionally, something this slave has learned personally to ascribe to either an anxiety/panic attack or a typical day in the life of someone with severe symptoms of pregnancy.

others describe it as only emotional, and not physical at all.

after all of the endless discussions, this slave ends up putting "sub drop" in the same category of words as "slave", "artistic" and "beautiful"...WHOLLY subjective and unique to the particular individual who is perceiving it and/or using it as a self-identifier.

I love this discription of "sub-drop." It is that which we individually learn more about ourselves in learning the symptoms and how we deal with them, be that alone or with our partner.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 16

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/18/2007 2:51:47 PM

LaMspeach

Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
some folks describe sub drop as if they were experiencing, physically and emotionally, something this slave has learned personally to ascribe to either an anxiety/panic attack or a typical day in the life of someone with severe symptoms of pregnancy.

others describe it as only emotional, and not physical at all.

after all of the endless discussions, this slave ends up putting "sub drop" in the same category of words as "slave", "artistic" and "beautiful"...WHOLLY subjective and unique to the particular individual who is perceiving it and/or using it as a self-identifier.

I agree with beth. I only wish to add ... That sub drop doesn't only very from person to person, it also veries from day to day. Example( for me) Master can do the exact same thing to me on Moday, then again on Tuesday and i can have a totally different reaction and sub drop.

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 17

RE: not another 'sub drop' post - 7/18/2007 5:30:17 PM

ELUSIVE1

Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Considering the worst drops for me have come when we've played long and hard until the night, gotten just a couple of hours of sleep and continued first thing in the morning without food or drink, I know the physical plays a huge part. These days we take breaks after a couple of hours for water and to warm up, frequently with a half hour nap. We think ahead about food and I never play anymore after not eating all day.

Same two people, much more consideration of the physical and much lower drops.

Good point- I always keep bottled water in the play area...

_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 18

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