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RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 10:09:12 AM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

LA,

I know my insecurities don't come from a selfish place, some of the ways I feed my heart are certainly selfish. My need for touch and massage is legend and that IS all about me.

I think of selfish as someone who thinks things are all about them and or don't really understand that other people exist and have value. People who are deeply fussy about food (for some I realize have genuine food issues) for the sole reason of making everyone jump through hoops are genuinely selfish, same goes with being late, I think that is all about only thinking about yourself and not caring about others.

OUCH!

**slinks off to lick her wounds...

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 21

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 10:31:30 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

... to look thru someone else eyes just once would be truly liberating.
In the meantime, i focus on the "within"...

for this slave, confidence did not remove the distortions seen in the mirror, it just made this slave feel differently about seeing the distortions. kind of like how a few shots of Demerol worked after waking up from surgery....this slave stopped screaming and could converse with the nurses, but the pain was still there and damn excruciating. to clear the mirror of distortions required clearing the mirror---disassociating with and finally letting go of a sense of "self". that isn't "me" or "I", that old selfy-self that's been around since '66 looking back from the mirror...it is Master's slave, with barely 4 years of existence behind her.

the path this slave is on allows her to see through Master's eyes back to His slave often...it has come about through the losing of her sense of self. the image of this slave that Master has is a construct of His own mind, not definitive reality. to accept that image and respond to it with confidence required letting go of self, burying it somewhere out there in the desert and becoming His slave. no-one else's image of this slave matters.

Our American society does a superb job of encouraging folks insecurities...it sells a lot more ________(fill in the blank with a menagerie of products and services) that way. for some, a loss of self is akin to blasphemy, mental defect or impossible. for this slave, it is truly liberating, peace-filled and allows for some awesome experiences!

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 22

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 10:32:37 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Edited to add: After all, it's true that "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and you need to behold your own unique beauty from your own eye, before you can truly believe that anyone else sees you as beautiful.

This is very true joy and i agree...

And yet some wounds and negative thoughts are so difficult to erase and i have a lifetime of such things ~

As do most of us, dawn, which is why it is so important to look at yourself from your own perspective, one that isn't tainted by the remarks of others (both the flattering ones and the hurtful ones), so that you can see your own unique beauty. A beauty that isn't an attempt to copy someone else and isn't judged according to someone else's standard. It is a pure and honest view of what is good about you, with the understanding that, at the end of the day, the one opinion that truly matters, is your own.

i grew up with four older sisters who loved to put me down about my big feet, along with my big nose and my freckles and anything else they could think of to hurt my feelings. And, it did hurt my feelings a lot when i was little. But, i found out that they were just trying to be mean to me and it had nothing to do with how i really looked or who i really was. i used to be extremely self-critical, even when i would be complimented by someone. i used to think, "Oh, he's just saying that i'm pretty or that he loves my eyes (or my ass, or my ankles, or whatever), just because he wants to get in my pants." That was a very insecure and childish way for me to think, even though some of them probably did want to get in my pants.

The thing i had to learn was that i have to feel good about me and how i look, not to try to please someone else, but for my own self-esteem and positive identity and to stop trying to look like someone i'm not and to stop the hypercritical self-examination and self-ridicule that only ends up hurting myself. It was a difficult lesson and took a long time, but i finally learned to just look for the positive qualities that define who i am and makes me different than anyone else, even with my freckles and wrinkles.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 23

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 10:47:14 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Why not start by defining what you mean by selfishness so we can all work from a common definition?

Ha ha, no way am I getting roped into that, certainly not on my own thread. It's all whatever definition works for you.

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! That is a topic in and of itself and can throw a very interesting thread right down a dead end road.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 24

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 10:50:22 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

the path this slave is on allows her to see through Master's eyes back to His slave often...it has come about through the losing of her sense of self. the image of this slave that Master has is a construct of His own mind, not definitive reality. to accept that image and respond to it with confidence required letting go of self, burying it somewhere out there in the desert and becoming His slave. no-one else's image of this slave matters.

Thankyou beth...i will remember this~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 25

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 10:53:16 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

Thankyou joy as well.
i know i have value and i do love myself...it is just in the physical manifestation of me...and i am working on it, i really am~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 26

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 11:19:31 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

i will add this though... i can see and have been in such a place where my insecurities kept me from being "in the moment" and of giving my attention completely to another. i have inadvertantly made the person complimenting me question their judgement as i flipped the compliment with my own negativety about it.
Inspite of the fact that i am working on this issue, i do believe this is rude and selfish to another...i see this.

Which is why i like beth's answer for me, personally...i will probably never be the type to look in the mirror and say "girl, you are so beautiful!" But if i can let go of that part of my ego and become less self-centered with an image that will never be good enough thru my own eyes and see myself thru the eyes of others that care for me and "believe" what they see... that will be a worthy accomplishment~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 27

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 11:22:00 AM

lighthearted

Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

However, having an insecurity that "I'm not good enough for him" when it's someone who has already said you ARE good enough for them and in fact they want you, is a persistant negative sense of self within you, a self-centered need for continued approval and energy from another.

not only is the energy required from another, but insecurity is also a tremendous drain on oneself. like most people, I'm no stranger to insecurity. when I think about all the time I've spent in my life doubting myself, second-guessing decisions, making myself feel bad because of something I perceived I wasn't (exciting, sexy, interesting blah blah blah), it adds up to a lot.

what if, instead, I had set those feelings aside and instead devoted that same energy to my partner and our relationship? the confidence gained would be a direct result of the solid foundation, built with that same energy.

to me, that's where the definition of the selfishness arises. to not devote that energy to my relationship, but just continue to let it feed upon these insecurities...that is selfish.

_____________________________

"Thou art to me a delicious torment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 28

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 11:30:54 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

having an insecurity that "I'm not good enough for him" when it's someone who has already said you ARE good enough for them and in fact they want you, is a persistent negative sense of self within you, a self-centered need for continued approval and energy from another.

This again isn't NECESSARILY bad or wrong- lord knows I've got a handful of them as does my partner. But you have to recognize them for what they are. While all insecurities come from a place of "I'm not good enough" no insecurities in and of themselves actually PREVENT us from acting like we ARE, in fact, good enough.

LA,
I don't associate insecurity as being relevant to selfishness.

I define insecurity as either a fear of consequence, or lack of confidence in represented ability. A fraud lacks confidence and hides where their nature or their abilities won't be disclosed. The fear of consequence is more difficult to address. Fear of disclosure, fearing the consequence, is a difficult hurdle to overcome. Is is your position that non-disclosure is selfish?

There was a crossroad in my life that occurred almost six years ago that broke my fear of consequence. There is now no consequence that I can consider that would prevent me from honest disclosure. I don't think that makes me totally "secure" just pragmatic. It has been liberating. I'm happier than I've ever been in my life and can't imagine how any change regarding any aspect of my life would change that save for one - if something happened to beth. Since we have in our contract that she isn't permitted to die before me, I am 100% secure and have no consequence to fear. The foundation for this attitude is the 100% reciprocity of trust between us. Nothing goes unsaid, because we both know, with the same confident assurance of gravity, that whatever is said will not have a negative impact on our relationship.

On the other hand, I think of myself as being VERY selfish. I'm selfish with time, I'm selfish with beth, and I'm most selfish regarding wanting to be with beth all the time.

quote:

In fact an amusing bit of psychology we often do for ourselves is to put on an OVER-confident front to mask an insecurity which often ends up being a neon sign to manipulators who can smell it a mile away.

Very true - a good "tell" regarding this fact is when the confidence doesn't stand up to challenge, or if all challenges are avoided and/or they are responded to with anger and profanity. You really can't challenge real confidence. Confidence doesn't even require being "right". Just the opposite as a matter of fact. Accepting the possibility of being wrong to the point of seeking out "tests" and amending positions portrays extreme confidence.

Some have mentioned the deprecating humor approach to deflect challenge and as a possible indication of self doubt. Maybe in some cases, but it also may be a case of humor being used to diffuse a challenge or a potential serious fight, when there is no "right" answer and/or no benefit of "winning" or losing for that matter. For instance, when my 87 year old father met beth and spent some time with her for the first time he told her he saw me as "stupid" and a "failure" to not have gone to Med school when I had the opportunity. I should argue? Not me - I replied; "You're right dad, sorry I disappointed you". beth thought it was hilarious!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 7/13/2007 11:51:02 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 29

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 11:52:15 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

I know my insecurities well. Yea, some of them are related to family and how I'm just "dismissed" in so many ways. My two older sisters often criticize me for being too much of that and not enough of this. They tell me how I should live my life, etc.......

When it comes to relationships, I have always felt like I just didn't matter, except for sex. I'd meet guys who claimed to be looking for serious relationships and when I would finally get up the nerve to express my needs....... end of relationship. I'd sit there wondering what the hell happened because I'd watch other women pitch fits and demand this or that of their boyfriends.. and get it! And here I was not being pushy, bitchy or demanding, but simply expressing some basic relationship needs, and apparently I just wasn't worth the trouble (in my mind).

I am one of the easiest people to get along with..., I'm funny, attractive, smart and will do just about anything for those I'm closest to, yet when it comes to asking for and receiving anything in return, I'm always left out in the cold. Let it happen for years and decades, and no matter how great you know you are in your heart, your head just keeps telling you that you don't matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
However, having an insecurity that "I'm not good enough for him" when it's someone who has already said you ARE good enough for them and in fact they want you, is a persistant negative sense of self within you, a self-centered need for continued approval and energy from another.

In my last relationship, it wasn't that I actually felt that I wasn't good enough for him, it was that, other than "owning" me, he never did anything or said anything that made me feel wanted or needed by him. And as silly as it sounds, my insecurities were reinforced by the fact that he never changed his profile to say anything about me, and he was on here regularly, so I was left feeling like he was just keeping me until he found someone else - not so much someone better than me, but maybe more in line with whatever his fantasy "perfect slave" was.

I was never given that safe, secure, wanted feeling that I needed to put my insecurities out to pasture. In my vanilla relationships, expression of my needs would ultimately end the relationship. In my M/s relationship, the expression of my needs was simply ignored. So I was left again with the feeling that I just didn't matter.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 30

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 11:55:01 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Is is your position that non-disclosure is selfish?

Not necessarily, but I think it can be.

quote:

On the other hand, I think of myself as being VERY selfish. I'm selfish with time, I'm selfish with beth, and I'm most selfish regarding wanting to be with beth all the time.

I don't think insecurity = selfish, or that selfish = insecurity OR that selfish necessarily = bad/wrong

It's more when it keeps you from being yourself, where you get too wrapped up in the fear to be who you are.

quote:

Not me - I replied; "You're right dad, sorry I disappointed you". beth thought it was hilarious!

I LOVE doing that.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 31

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 12:17:40 PM

daddyscherry

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/10/2007
From: Daddy's Tower, CA
Status: offline

Thanks LA for the thread (it adds to what you were already telling me and gives me more food for thought

)

slavegirl joy made a great point in finding your own beauty in your own eye....sometimes sooo hard to do but well said.

Simply Michael said something about the "it's all about me" thing that people can do. This is a lesson i've been learning this year from my Daddy.

i tend to take things so personally and to heart and think that somehow it was ME, my fault, my unworthiness, my issue and that is completely selfish *even though it is another aspect of it, not the typical I WANT MY WAY, it's all about me thing.*

_____________________________

~cherry
a.k.a. charismagirrl

For today i won't say but...
For today i won't say just....
For today i will simply obey...
For always i will be your imperfect slave.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 32

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 12:26:55 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i will add this though... i can see and have been in such a place where my insecurities kept me from being "in the moment" and of giving my attention completely to another. i have inadvertantly made the person complimenting me question their judgement as i flipped the compliment with my own negativety about it.
Inspite of the fact that i am working on this issue, i do believe this is rude and selfish to another...i see this.

Which is why i like beth's answer for me, personally...i will probably never be the type to look in the mirror and say "girl, you are so beautiful!" But if i can let go of that part of my ego and become less self-centered with an image that will never be good enough thru my own eyes and see myself thru the eyes of others that care for me and "believe" what they see... that will be a worthy accomplishment~

That's a wonderful desire to have but, you are still putting your self-esteem in the hands of another and what happens when that person is no longer in your life, as in they die or change their course and leave? Where does that leave your self-image? Do you then start looking at yourself through a new person's perspective? That's why i say, to be truly secure in who you are and to be able to carry that secure identity with you through every up and down of this life's journey, you need to have a positive self-image that comes from within you and isn't reliant on what another thinks about you. Of course, it's wonderful to know that the person you care about and who cares about you thinks you're beautiful and lets you know that. That's a wonderful feeling but, again i say, that unless you believe within you that you are the most beautiful person that you were meant to be, the compliments and adoration of anyone else is fleeting, at best. For your self-image to be secure and lasting, it needs to be "good enough" for you. That doesn't mean that you have to look at yourself in the mirror and say, "girl, you are so beautiful!", although, that's not a bad thing to do. But, to see yourself through your own unfiltered and honest eye and see the true beauty that makes you special, including the physical fact that aging is a beautiful part of this life, and really appreciate all that you are, that, to me, is the most potent antidote to feeling insecure and to no longer be at the mercy of the opinions of others, be they good, bad or indifferent. Having a secure feeling about myself and knowing that i am being the best me that i can be, at this particular time in my life and with the particular physical, as well as internal characteristics, that make me unique, is what allows me to not only accept, but even enjoy my Master's sadistic humor and humiliation that He so enjoys putting me through, because i don't worry about what others will think of me. Feeling secure about myself allows me the freedom to laugh at myself with ease and not burst into tears and feel bad about myself just because i am being made a spectacle of in public. It doesn't hurt my feelings, in the least, what anyone else thinks of me. Because i feel secure about myself (and i take care of myself for my own sake instead of someone else's), i don't worry about how i will look when i'm 55 or 60 or 75. Because i feel secure about myself, i don't worry that no one will want to have anything to do with me just because i don't look like a supermodel or even like i did when i was 23. Because i feel secure about myself, i don't feel the need to try to elicit compliments to pump-up my ego. Because i feel secure about myself, i don't get embarrassed about my naked body being looked at, in the full light of day, because i don't dwell on fears of, "What is He going to find wrong with my body?" or, "Will He still want to touch me, if i'm not pretty enough?" These are things that i used to do all the time, because of my insecurities. i no longer feel a need to do any of that anymore. And, THAT is a very good feeling of freedom. i believe that we build our own cages, with our own insecurities, that hold us prisoner far tighter than anything that anyone else could ever put us in. slave joyOwned property of Master David

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 33

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 12:33:25 PM

gypsyssoul

Posts: 127
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Balti., Maryland, living in Summerville SC
Status: offline

thank you so much for posting this

.. i just went over this ..

and found it to be a problem .. the fact that

i am needy .. and i need reassuance that

i am good enough for Him

its not easy to go from ...

never being right for someone to

someone who .. does believe

and have that faith in you ...

and its great to know

i am not alone

~~blessings

gypsy

_____________________________

~~"I have always sought this other side, but like a flame I dare not touch, For like forbidden fruits of wild .. just one taste would be to much"...
~~ blessed be

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 34

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 3:27:17 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

LOL one of the many things I work hard with my partner about is stopping his automatic desire to preface and amend and caveat EVERYTHING before he actually gets to the point or reveals something about himself and get him to just say it and be confident about it. He's a LOT better on that now.

Funny you would say that. My boss has been working with me quite a bit to get rid of my tendency to try to justify my point. Basically, my job is to be deferential to the female instructors, but I am considered a self-defense expert, and caveatting everything I say detracts from the value of my feedback or input to the students.

As Brad Pitt pointed out to Edward Norton in Fight Club, "Cut the foreplay and just ask, man."

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 35

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 4:01:50 PM

salilus

Posts: 201
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline

The original post makes a lot of sense.

I've read you making this statement before, but it was never elaborated.
Thank you for that.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 36

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/13/2007 11:16:33 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Thanks for all the great replies and discussion today, made it very enjoyable.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to salilus)

Post #: 37

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/14/2007 2:56:04 AM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i will add this though... i can see and have been in such a place where my insecurities kept me from being "in the moment" and of giving my attention completely to another. i have inadvertantly made the person complimenting me question their judgement as i flipped the compliment with my own negativety about it.
Inspite of the fact that i am working on this issue, i do believe this is rude and selfish to another...i see this.

Which is why i like beth's answer for me, personally...i will probably never be the type to look in the mirror and say "girl, you are so beautiful!" But if i can let go of that part of my ego and become less self-centered with an image that will never be good enough thru my own eyes and see myself thru the eyes of others that care for me and "believe" what they see... that will be a worthy accomplishment~

Dawntreader, you remind Me a bit of dream. I look at the length of your legs and arms and go "Is she kidding??????" I'd kill a few of My enemies if I could wake up as tall as that. dream doesn't see that he is model gorgeous either. I used to think he was fishing for compliments until I fully realized he MEANT what he was saying. Like Michael all he saw was a troll in the mirror, in pictures. I want to help him with his insecurities but I've got a full Louis Vitton set of My own. Funny thing is he thinks I'm hot!???? If only We could share each other's eyes for a day or so. I wonder if when We got our own eyes back, would our insecurities melt away?

By the way, love the nic. C. S. Lewis's Narnia series was among the first "sequel" books I read in primary school. Even had a boyfriend nicknamed Treader at one point. your nic brings back fond memories.

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 38

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/14/2007 3:47:14 AM

maledave7

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/4/2006
Status: offline

I can see your point about being selfish in having too much insecurity. I can see where a person would feel that they are never good enough. It is not a good thing for the other person to be drain of energy trying to encourage them all the time.
I do not desire for insecurities to run my life. I feel that trying to improve and be a better submissive to my Mistress is important. Having some insecurity is good thing. I feel that we should focus more on being an encouragement to others.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 39

RE: Insecurities & Selfishness - 7/15/2007 4:03:21 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

I’ll try to be honest here. Submissives have insecurities to a greater degree than Doms it has been my experience and there is nothing wrong with that. It fits the dynamic well. I will openly use her insecurities as means of control. I tell her this and she understands it. (LA called this manipulation, but it really isn’t in this case with our ability to talk to each other.)

I want her to feel like she will do anything for me because I am able to make her feel wanted in the midst of her insecurities. So, in this sense, her insecurities work well for our relationship.

Some days she is very insecure in a shy, introverted way that I can spot in her eyes and manners immediately. Instead of reassuring her of her attributes, I tell her that I know she is feeling insecure today and she is going to work hard for me to prove her worthiness. She does and she feels better after fulfilling this need to show her insecurities to me and to be used because of it. Of course it all ends with her head on my shoulder, gentle kisses and her feeling appreciated and good about herself.

Briefly, where insecurities can be bad is when things are going along swimmingly and suddenly one person "loudly" says something like, “why don’t you like me,” for no reason. That is actually an attack that is going to cause a confrontation.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 40

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