Starting a new Kink Group

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MasterMike04103 -> Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 7:55:39 PM)
hello out there, I am writing in hopes that someone kind kinkster out there might have an answer. A good friend of Mine and I are starting a TNG chapter in our community, and I am curious... does anyone know what information needs to be on a membership card for a leather group. Also what info needs to be kept by the group on its members, if any as lifestyle groups are usualy done on a wink and a nod. Any one who has insite and wants to offer it would be greatly thanked. Also if you need more insite as to what I am asking please ask. Mike

Rover -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 8:02:24 PM)
Mike, I would strongly suggest that you consider writing to several of the existing TNG chapters and ask for advice. No need for you to make the same start-up mistakes if they can be avoided. I'm sure they'd be pleased to share their experiences and suggestions. Maybe even invite you over to see how their group is run, or come speak to yours. You can find plenty of chapters with a simple Google search. John P.S. - Best of luck... it's nice to see someone taking the initiative. P.P.S. - You may want to contact some of the other local groups to solicit ideas, support, and even membership. Several of them are listed here: http://www.darkheart.com/usalist.html#Maine

SimplyMichael -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 8:21:11 PM)
The problem with all this is confidentiality and age restrictions. If you have a list of people that can make great fodder for local newspapers but if you don't have some record of who is and isn't in as well as a way of checking ID you open yourself up to other issues. In SF, a city where perverts shut down streets and have parties and the police don't care much about prostitution things are a bit different than in say Iowa. On my id card for Citadel, a playspace it has my name, my membership ID number (so the cards can't be faked), experation and the signature of the person who checked but did not record my ID. Other groups keep even less info. Now, since you are not likely to have more than 30-40 members it isn't such a big deal to keep track of people, my ID number is 209X....over 2,000 members!

SimplyMichael -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 8:28:42 PM)
God Damn Fucking Politics Rover has a good point. You ARE going to piss off all the male dominants in the area by doing this and if any groups are run by them you are REALLY going to piss them off. They all (on some level or another) want the hot young things and see you doing this as a way of being inexperienced (Only saying how THEY will see it and the rumors they will spread) AND getting the women they really want. SO, my advice is do it anyway, and make an effort to include them on some level. Ask them to teach classes (which gets the buy in of the "elders" legitimate or not) to your group, make sure you do outings to their events, etc. Also, whisper in their ear that by having a group that will keep young women interested, more will enter the scene and some will certainly gravitate to where the older men are. I realize the above is a bit cynical but I have experienced this from both sides, I started a "youth" group back when I was young and boy did it cause a stir and am now on the far side of "young" and am lucky I prefer women my own age but I see some of the issues others raised as legitimate on some levels, self centered assholeness on others. Best of luck and don't hesitate to ask here or privately for advice. Jay Wiseman calls running groups "organizational masochism" and he is spot on!

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 8:55:38 PM)
Don't have cards, don't keep information on anyone. Keep it a solely social group that people show up when they want, pay what they want to pay for what they want, and that's it. Feel free to organize events and parties where people show up and do the work or they don't. That's the easiest way to do it.

MasterMike04103 -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 9:05:09 PM)
John, I am in the process of contacting sister TNG groups, and thanks for the link to maine groups, but alas like alot of things in the lifestyle some of the groups are GONE like the wind. SimplyMichael, I am not sure what you know about TNG, but tng is a group starteed by Black Rose leather group in DC. it was set up to provide a safe place for younger more vulnerable members of the lifestyle from the "chicken hawking" that occures, you know, fresh meat in a shark tank leads to a feasting frenzy and TNG keeps that from happening LuckyAlbatros, there is an upside to having group membership cards. some groups like the National Leather Aliance International hold events where card holding members of social groups or clubs get discount admission or vendor discounts on things. Which is one of the main reasons why our group wanted to have them. Poor college students and all. Cheers, Mike

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 9:09:01 PM)
Well again, anything that goes into getting actual info on anyone and tracking it gets things real deep, real fast. So then I'd say go to the other people's advice because it's pretty good.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/12/2007 9:51:24 PM)
Mike, Most groups don't extend discounts to anyone with an ID card, they extend discounts to ONLY those groups they "recognize" as legitimate and who often offer reciprical value and discounts to their members.

MasterMike04103 -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/13/2007 12:36:50 AM)
Michael, I agree and have seen that in other factions of life, but I would think that the TNG movement having various chapters across the states and international for all I know.. would be considered a legit group... But again thanks for your ideas my team and I are working hard to get things all sorted out. Blessings, Mike

Rover -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/13/2007 4:57:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterMike04103 I am not sure what you know about TNG, but tng is a group starteed by Black Rose leather group in DC. it was set up to provide a safe place for younger more vulnerable members of the lifestyle from the "chicken hawking" that occures, you know, fresh meat in a shark tank leads to a feasting frenzy and TNG keeps that from happening Oh, I have more than a passing knowledge of TNG and have presented to several chapters on occasion. Though I deny any implied resemblance to the insecure graybeards that Michael mentioned. Afterall, I don't wear a beard. John

bipolarber -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/13/2007 7:57:11 AM)
I was in on helpting to create a few support/party groups in the Denver area in the 1990's. PEP Denver, Rocky Mountain Power Exchange, Colorado Bound, and the Labyrinth. The legal requirements will change not only from state to state, but by each municipality. You'll need to check with local government to find out what your limitations are. Generally, the groups I was with tried to minimize the amount of information gathered from members. For the parties, we pretty much verified their ID, made sure they were of age, and had them sign the liability waiver, checking to be sure they used their legal name. Beyond that, we took their cover money and told them to have a good time. For the support group, we usually tried to gather a little more info, such as a mailing and email address. We never went so far as establishing a yearly membership fee, or issuing a "membership card." We found that keeping such a database on our membership (encrypted, or not) became a worry for the membership in case of a police raid. (Rare, but it sometimes still happens, especially during an election cycle.) As such, membership was open to all interested parties, who paid their dues on a month to month basis, provided that they could verify their age, and that they were who they said they were. (photo ID) This had the effect of keeping the parties and other meetings fresh with new faces, and also kept the onus on the board of the group to keep the themes, and discussions of the events interesting. Your milage may vary.

onestandingstill -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/13/2007 8:01:39 AM)
I'd recommend going to a group that has a successful TNG group and asking them what they do. Black Rose has a pretty big, well established, very active group. They are at BR.org. I'm sure they'd be willing to give you good advice. Good Luck, suzanne

thetammyjo -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/13/2007 8:23:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterMike04103 hello out there, I am writing in hopes that someone kind kinkster out there might have an answer. A good friend of Mine and I are starting a TNG chapter in our community, and I am curious... does anyone know what information needs to be on a membership card for a leather group. Also what info needs to be kept by the group on its members, if any as lifestyle groups are usualy done on a wink and a nod. Any one who has insite and wants to offer it would be greatly thanked. Also if you need more insite as to what I am asking please ask. Mike I don't know much about the TGN groups but the first place to turn is any national organization of that. If there is one, then you need to abide by their rules and regulations first and foremost or not take on the TGN title. Second I'd consult a lawyer in your area and find out what the law says. If you are just going to meet monthly for conversations at a restaurant, probably not problem. But if you want to have play parties or any sort of demonstration especially but not limited to times when any money is exchanged you'll need to know the law to make sure you comply. Again if any type of sex might be involved you should probably consult a lawyer. Is all of the fun in the world worth a trip to jail or the cost of a trial? If you keep it just talking though I doubt there is much concern in the legal system. However I personally would want to know a bit about anyone coming to events. There have been a few cases where mean spirited people (in my opinion they were mean spirited) got information about munches and organizations and then attempted to get them in trouble at restaurants, hotels, and even with the legal authorities. All of this said I've seen two type of leaderships in these groups succeed. First the dictator model -- you and maybe one other person are in charge and that never changes. Folks don't like they, they don't come. The second is more tricky and will require more formal rules be set up and maintained -- committee run group that is voted into office; this can open the door though to jealousies and power games unless you are very well organized perhaps using legal consultation again to set up the structure of the group. In the first instance the people are the most important thing; in the second it's the group itself. I've seen both succeed wonderfully and fail as well. I stopped being a fan of the purely volunteer run group years ago because I think it opens up the door to a lot of resentment over time and a lot of nasty personal politics.

vield -> RE: Starting a new Kink Group (7/13/2007 8:56:13 AM)
You are getting a lot of good advice, Mike. The posts here reflect that not everyone agrees on ways and means, and this is correct because life is that way. I've seen a lot of groups of several types form and have helped with some of them. I have seen some fail, too. I suggest that you and those you plan to share leadership with simply put your heads together and start listing what you want and what you do not want this group to accomplish. You can go very simple, with few membership requirements, no agenda, no demos or speakers and with simply a regularly scheduled time and place for people to get together and socialize. You will need to require an age minimum for legal purposes. No group containing any legal adults can have people below the legal adult age as members without breaking a number of laws, even if you do not play but only discuss things. The one possible exception is if the group becomes a church legally certified as such by your state. E-groups are easy to form on yahoo and other places, but without regular meetings at a known time and place these will not get you very far. Some groups require attending meetings before joining an e-group, some do not. As most such groups meet in bars in this part of the country, members usually will have to meet drinking age requirements. Often gay bars are very open to allowing BD/SM meetings on their premises, especially at slow times like a Saturday afternoon. If you have a maximum age limit you will need some way to verify that. If a simple social group has no membership paperwork at all, there is nothing to be subpeonaed if an opposing group like the religious right objects to you. Many groups do require members to attend a meeting and sign a waiver agreeing to follow the group rules, which can be as simple or elaborate as you like. The group will need to agree about who keeps the waivers and what info they include. Most agree to respect group rules, the privacy of other members, and some agree not to use cameras including cell phone cameras at gatherings. One can go the route of developing bylaws and elected officers or one can "own" a group personally and decide what happens yourself, or many options between those choices. You can become a corporation. Then you will need legal advice. If you have required membership fees you will automatically come under government rules in most states about establishing things like record keeping, tax numbers and paying taxes, and paid members may be liable for a portion of any legal judgements a group may suffer. This may in fact be the right way to go if the group is going to rent property or run a business. If you simply request donations, most of these legalities need not come up. Before you try to rent a hotel and have a big regional scene party, best get the cadre of your group organized and make sure you have people who know what they are doing to staff the event. Especially an adequate staff of trained DM's will be necessary, and a trained security staff covering entry and exit to your play space. Your own group or your new group can be great fun, but if it is to succeed it will be a lot of work too.

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