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RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 7:11:34 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
so whats you guys take on HR 2755?


1) Zero chance of passing.  I mean, it's a protest bill, not seriously meant as a legislative proposal, right?

2) I'm not so much down on the Fed as I am on the mission of the Fed.  This chaps my ass:

quote:

  The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee shall maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy's long run potential to increase production, so as to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.


If the mission of the Fed were solely price stability, I'd have no problemw ith it--it would be like the Office of the Exchequer during Britain's long price stability run.  Let's say right now gold is about $650 an ounce (another way of saying dollars are at 1/650th an ounce), and we decide that's our price point, just like England had a pound sterling.  If the Fed intervened $10 either way, after a couple years we'd be locked in.

Or we could redo a Bretton Woods type arrangement.  Anything to move away from a fiat currency to a linking of the dollar as a unit of account to the actual pool of goods and services to denominated.

Shit, even the Volker/Early "Good" Greenspan method would work.  I rpefer gold to a basket of prices, but fuck, at least that is aimed away from managing production and towards price stability.

It really, really chaps my ass that this president has hit a home-run with tax policy and completely fucked up monetary policy.


i  took it as serious legislation to bring the control of our money back under the control of the people ort at least government oversight.

With imports and exports there is a way to exchange money, the flow is back and forth between countries but with the international bankers selling us fiat money the flow of all that interest money paid on the deficit is one direction and that is out of the country to a very few people with no way to get it returned to us as in the case of trade.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 7:50:34 AM   
Termyn8or


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Well Real, it may have not been the nail for which you were aiming, but you definitely hit one right on the head.

In your opinion, how would you think we should return to having a real currency ? I mean this is a rocky road, we got all this debt, which most likely we will just have to tell them to fuck off on, which will almost effectively isolate us.

People say a weak dollar is good for exports, and that is full of shit. What we need is a strong dollar and SIGNIFICANT DEMAND for our exports. Just what do we make here ?

For example, let's say we fix the dollar to gold, no matter what. We simply can't do that. Because vendors in other countries will stop taking our dollars, or simply raise prices until equity is reached, perhaps beyond. That means we are going to have to relearn how to make everything. OK we remember how to make paper clips and warheads. Shit, even our warplanes aren't all that great.

If we can't make it we have to buy it. That spells hard times. One thing the national debt serves to do is to prop up the value of the dollar. If allowed to decline as it should have since the depression, without the interest, the sweat of the People would uphold the dollar, and not prop it up. Uphold it.

But now most of the real work being done in this country just serves to pay the interest, a load that will never go away. And day by day, traitors destroy any hope they can find among us that might provide a chance to recover. Even if you scrap a bunch of steel or aluminum or something, 90% of it goes overseas.

So what would be the best plan ? I don't have one that won't piss off alot of people. The fact of the matter is that we have been living high off the hog for way too long, and there is no easy way out. It will come time to pay the piper. Nobody wants that.

All this shit would never have happened if we stayed the fuck out of Europe. The Kaiser, Hitler, I would've said "OK, whoever wins call us". If they had done this, we wouldn't have half this fucking mess.

And I see no way out now.

T

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 7:53:00 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Good topic and fairly accurate information, especially the devaluation comments. A good exercise is to look at the historical value of gold. What an ounce of gold would buy in 1980 is comparable to what it would buy in 2007 in consumable goods.
quote:

Cheap dollars are fantastic for American exporters.
Not necessarily; if the US actually manufactured something from raw materials found in the US it would be the case. However the US is primarily a "service" entity. We import finished product made by third world workers and resell them.

The only industry benefiting would be the farming industry. However they are being squeezed by the rising cost of imported oil, not just for their equipment but for oil by-products used during every phase of the process. It explains the pressure on the need for cheaper labor. The use of illegal aliens only stretches so far. The need for a larger pool of low wage earners is the driving force for the industry pushing for amnesty. 12 Million instantly legal low wage earners would insure at least another generation of low cost employees. It is why the PACs put so much money into a campaign, and politicians, who benefited from the cash, used so much political capital on an issue that the vast majority of citizens were against.

The only other positive impact is to the tourist industry. I'd be curious to know if there is an ongoing ad campaign for US tourism in Europe.

Economics can be as "fun" as religion or politics as a parlor topic. Global economics is as complicated as physics, and money, like energy, is neither created or destroyed; only changed into a different form or redistributed. The nuances and subtlety of influence lends it to more conspiracy theories than the Kennedy assassination. Physiology and perception play as big a part as any quantitative influence making all projections akin to projecting the winner of football games. Unless, of course, if you own a team playing. Unlike football, if you decide to you can manipulate the game by changing the playing field or, if you are so inclined, break your quarterback's arm and not worry too much about coming under scrutiny. The Hunt brothers attempted it with silver. Enron tried it with smoke and mirrors. These 'minor league' players may have had some politicians in their pockets but they were also 'minor league'. You rarely if ever hear about the major league manipulations because they play on a level none of us are a part of or can even appreciate.

The best you can do, is keep your eyes, and ears open and take advantage of opportunities to ride on the coattails of some of the major league manipulations. Right now, its best to keep cash on hand, or better yet - hard currency such as precious metals. We are one "crisis" or "event" away from a major devaluation of real estate. The iceberg tip is the secondary mortgage market, it will soon effect all mortgage lending. Once it does, and houses stay unsold on the market for many months more "wealth" will be lost. For the majority of US citizens their house is their only asset.

My "hero", Gordon Gekko, know for his "Greed is good" philosophy, said it best; "It's a zero sum game."

(in reply to selfbnd411)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 8:06:20 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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Merc,  Ild have to wonder how many Europeans admire America enough to visit- per tourist.

We POd- EU off- on many layers. One example is the comment "old Europe".

Im not sure tourism is the cure all answere.

You post about the farm ops- --well- you hereby are awarded pahunks informal Post of the day award!!!

Your post is brilliantly worded- with ideas,thought prooking! congrats!!!!

:-) Big HUGS!!

< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 7/11/2007 8:07:32 AM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 8:06:54 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

r
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Not necessarily; if the US actually manufactured something from raw materials found in the US it would be the case. However the US is primarily a "service" entity. We import finished product made by third world workers and resell them.


yeh we apparently liked the jap economic model lol

Its unfortunate but technically we do not own our houses or land.   Consider looking into perfecting a "sale", "loan", "lien", and settling a debt etc.  The conspiracy issues are centered around the actual law.

I do hope someone comments about all the one way cash flow that is going out of this country through the federal reserve and can never be recuperated before this thread goes into the great thread heaven..


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 8:23:00 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Real; at one time if the US sneezed- the world caught a cold. im not sure that is true any longer.

liens and warrants can "happen".  *sarcastically bows* to lucifer, ie "lunen" ie," electronic"
in a point we dance with the devil by over-embracing technology.


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 8:41:42 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

The only other positive impact is to the tourist industry. I'd be curious to know if there is an ongoing ad campaign for US tourism in Europe.


If they're suckn' up Chertoff's recent comments, I seriously doubt it. lol

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/07/11/chertoff_says_us_at_alqaida_risk/4146/




- R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 8:53:28 AM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

It's like having Nixon rise from the grave and make everyone "Keynesians now!!!"  That is scary.

You'd think, from an axiomatic approach, we'd have someone look at big, broad, good periods of economic success and stability, like the US under BW or say, Britain's 19th century monetary stability and go, "Wow, what, umm, what did they do?  Maybe we could do it to?"  Similarly look at say, oh, I dunno, the US under Nixon and Carter and be like, "Ok, whatever the fuck they did, I ain't doing it."



Your example of the converse :




quote:

How Romantics Die


Large-scale social systems which cling stubbornly to such delusions, doom themselves over the course of time. This self-inflicted doom may unfold over centuries, as in ancient Rome. It may sometimes unfold in the short run, or over one or more generations, as the fascist systems of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini did. The presently onrushing collapse of the global monetary and financial system, began in the United Kingdom, as the first government of Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson led that monarchy into the catastrophic sterling collapse of Autumn 1967. Changes similar those introduced under Wilson, were already in progress inside the U.S.A. by the mid-1960s. The result was not only the U.S. dollar crisis of January-March 1968; the same self-destructive trend in policy-shaping, was consolidated to become a dominant factor in U.S.A. policy-shaping over the 1966-1981 interval of U.S. political history.

This long-term downturn in the U.S. economy, began with Richard Nixon's pro-racist "Southern Strategy" campaign of 1966-1968 and his August 1971 wrecking of the world monetary system. The wrecking of the U.S. economy during one term of the disgusting President Jimmy Carter, was more destructive than under the nearly two terms of Nixon's Presidency. These terrible, axiomatic errors introduced over the 1966-1981 interval, have continued to destroy the U.S. economy, and much of the rest of the world, ever since.


For such reasons, the 1969-2001 collapse, is to be compared with the self-inflicted ruin of the Roman and Habsburg empires. It is among the notable examples of a collapse-cycle built into the intrinsically pathological axiomatic assumptions of a large-scale social system.

As I shall show below, all so-called "free trade" and related social, political-economic systems, are similarly doomed, as the case of the present world monetary-financial collapse demonstrates.

I emphasize a point I have made repeatedly in other writings and oral argument. Ask yourself: what is the power of popularized delusions over the mind and will of both individual persons, and even over the ruling establishment of self-doomed entire nations? The answer is: it is the lust of the individual to bask in the coddling warmth of popularized prejudices, such as popularized delusions of an axiomatic character. "None of the people I respect would agree with you," is typical of the way in which a self-doomed individual, or even a nation, will cling with passion to the delusion which dooms it, like a drowning man clinging to a sinking ship's anchor. It is the all-too-typical present-day politicians' predilection for kissing the foot of popular opinion, no matter how disgusting that fouled foot might be, which is the most commonplace form of moral corruption of contemporary, day-to-day political processes of government.


As a result of such passions, a people, a nation, such as Germany ruled by Adolf Hitler, may ensure its own ruin, even the destruction of its very existence. The currently widespread blind faith among the U.S. population, that a systemic financial crash is either not going to occur at all, or the wishful conceit, that any financial crash must soon rebound with a recovery, is typical of that same class of popularized delusions. This, for example, is the susceptibility to popular opinion on which today's U.S. "Big Brother," the mass-media, depends for its usually successful "brainwashing" of the majority of the U.S. population, and also the majority of those in the highest positions of our leading political parties, and government, today.


A manifold of combined true and false beliefs of that axiomatic quality of effect, constitutes what is sometimes referred to as a "mind-set." Here, in this report, we are contrasting the characteristic, functional differences between sane and delusion-ridden mind-sets. Our emphasis is on the cases of mass-delusions underlying the rise and fall of entire social systems. The inevitable, now onrushing disintegration of the presently self-doomed, global monetary-financial system, is an example of such mass-delusions. In other words, not only are so-called principles introduced, which originate in nothing other than deliberate falsehoods; the same "intuitional," specifically human, creative faculties of cognition, by means of which valid discoveries of universal physical principle are generated, are often misused by recklessly careening minds, to create ignorantly concocted, pathological pseudo-principles. The controlling mind-set of the individual victim of such induced mass-delusions, treats his or her such arbitrary, experimentally baseless beliefs, as if they were infallible universal principles. It is usually sufficient for that dupe of so-called "herd instinct," that he believe such beliefs to conform to popular opinion.

I shall show that the presently accelerating disintegration of the 1971-2001 world monetary-financial system, is an outcome of just such a quality of pathological mental behavior on a mass scale. In other words, belief in that system, is an example of a mass-delusion, a mass-psychosis.
http://larouchein2004.net/pages/writings/2001/011



quote:

so whats you guys take on HR 2755?


RO......

I think you already know how I feel about it.......





- R


< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 7/11/2007 8:57:13 AM >


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 8:55:03 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

The only other positive impact is to the tourist industry. I'd be curious to know if there is an ongoing ad campaign for US tourism in Europe.


If they're suckn' up Chertoff's recent comments, I seriously doubt it. lol

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/07/11/chertoff_says_us_at_alqaida_risk/4146/

- R


As an American I would not feel safe in EU. I prefer not to lie about where I live- which is the great commenwealth of Pennsylvania!

So I wonder- just maybe our EU friends are not comfy visiting especially with our recent immigration spat.

???

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 11:00:09 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

and all time low to the Euro and the Pound.

makes me get a sinking feeling.  is it starting?? the collapse?


Been saying that for years.  I generally get shouted down by right-wingers who insist prosperity is right
around the corner as the US infrastructure collapses and our government borrows like a spendthrift teenager
from China to pay for stupid ideas they got us in to.

Then the bashing of Clinton begins.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 11:05:30 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
well- we HAD to do ww2. be that as it may- it is in the past.

here we have corporate interest pulling the strings. freedom is shopping.

it is mindboggling- go to move- and see all the useless junk... i have so much of it- that---it is a burden. if i cant find a hammer- i go buy a new one.   so then i have sets of things.
it is almost hysterical- that- on tv- one christmas present can make someones day!!  maybe a hour of someones time is ever so more valuable then clutter. argh

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 1:24:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

and all time low to the Euro and the Pound.

makes me get a sinking feeling.  is it starting?? the collapse?


Been saying that for years.  I generally get shouted down by right-wingers who insist prosperity is right
around the corner as the US infrastructure collapses and our government borrows like a spendthrift teenager
from China to pay for stupid ideas they got us in to.

Then the bashing of Clinton begins.

Sinergy


yepperz that is the problem people who follow party lines take it all personal like and think you are attacking their choice when its really nothing more than what the official is doing.    i do not have a party per se, i think they are all assholes and only out for themselves and not the american people and i am always being accused of picking on gw.  LOL   but then they have no idea how much fun i will have if hillary gets in.  then i will be a democrat hater LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/11/2007 2:45:29 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yepperz that is the problem people who follow party lines take it all personal like and think you are attacking their choice when its really nothing more than what the official is doing.    i do not have a party per se, i think they are all assholes and only out for themselves and not the american people and i am always being accused of picking on gw.  LOL   but then they have no idea how much fun i will have if hillary gets in.  then i will be a democrat hater LOL



Im pretty equal opportunity as far as picking on the nitwits in charge myself.

However, only a dithering idiot can blame Clinton for trashing the economy as he oversaw the largest peacetime expansion of the US economy in history.  Similarly, only a drooling embicile can justify AnencephalyBoy flushing the economy since it was handed to him.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: dollar at 26 year low - 7/13/2007 5:26:21 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yepperz that is the problem people who follow party lines take it all personal like and think you are attacking their choice when its really nothing more than what the official is doing.    i do not have a party per se, i think they are all assholes and only out for themselves and not the american people and i am always being accused of picking on gw.  LOL   but then they have no idea how much fun i will have if hillary gets in.  then i will be a democrat hater LOL



Im pretty equal opportunity as far as picking on the nitwits in charge myself.

However, only a dithering idiot can blame Clinton for trashing the economy as he oversaw the largest peacetime expansion of the US economy in history.  Similarly, only a drooling embicile can justify AnencephalyBoy flushing the economy since it was handed to him.

Sinergy



i htink the biggest mistake one can make it to protect or support a party rather specific issues.   unfortunately there are so many issues we could have 1000 presidents and not get them all covered.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 34
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