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The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 4:11:58 AM   
LadyEllen


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Last night I watched a fascinating programme titled “The Castration Cure”. Featuring a number of sex offenders in California and Texas, it looked into the possibility of using castration (both chemical and surgical) as a means of preventing re-offending upon release.

Note – others may also have seen this programme at some time and will know the sexual offences concerned. I want to keep this away from those particular offences as otherwise the thread might be removed or ramble off topic, and I think it’s worth talking about.

The offenders concerned had undergone surgical castration or were on a programme of chemical castration. All reported that this had cured them of their offending behaviour and motivations; whereas before even so little as the mention of their particular preference had been enough to provoke them, they now felt no arousal whatsoever. What had been an overriding, irresistible compulsion they claimed was now gone.

There remain however serious concerns about these claims and the procedure itself, which is variously seen as a means of exacting revenge, a breach of the convicts’ human rights or unproven. Few surgeons will perform the surgical castration, and the one surgeon who had and was interviewed, seriously questioned its efficacy in removing the risks involved in releasing such offenders – indeed his view was that sex offenders should be incarcerated for life regardless of castration. The chemical castration method meanwhile incurs potentially serious health risks.

Now as someone who is chemically castrated – though for entirely different reasons I hasten to add, I can identify with the results that these convicts report. Even at the fairly low dosage of testosterone blockers I’m on due to health risks associated with other medication, I have found that sex as such just isn’t that important anymore (though it wasn’t that important in the first place!). But more than that, and what concerns me with using the same methods on sex offenders, is that my sexuality isn’t gone but has changed – although given the other side of the hormonal treatments I’m on, which the offenders are not, perhaps that isn’t relevant. My concern is that whilst we might tame a monster with such treatments, we may produce a different one.

The overriding concern in all this is the protection of potential victims. But at the same time, we treat sexual offences as criminal matters with rehabilitation as the goal. If we are to make the argument that nothing can rehabilitate a sex offender and the public can only be protected by lifetime imprisonment, then what of other dangerous offenders – do we also lock up for life the repeat offender whose record of violent muggings is lengthy?

In my view, I’m happy that these sex offenders have been apparently purged of the demons that drove them to their crimes by way of castration, but even so I really cant see me ever accepting them out on the streets again one day. The potential destruction of even one more life should castration not have proven a cure, is just too much risk to take. And that just goes right against my notion of giving people a second chance, but when it comes down to it, I wouldn’t want one of these people anywhere near me and mine.

E

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 4:47:26 AM   
SirPain


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I've seen the same show and one of the problems I have with it was that there was no followup by the producers.  How many of these offenders, once released, returned to their lifestyle and their predation?  From what I have read neither of the types of castration actually works, they only reenforce the mental aspect of "Don't get caught again."  I know this anology will seem a little out of place, but even though I have had my mini Dacshound "fixed" he still continues to hump everything in sight.  The lack of testicles does nothing to quell his need to "perform." 
The other problem I see with this program is the lack of acknowledgement of the rising number of female offenders.  OK.  So castration may or may not handle male offenders, what about the female offenders?  Yes, they are out there and they are very cunning and very active.  They not only are attracted to their own sex, but they seem to have no preference, like male offender, they will use either gender.  This, as I see it, is a much larger problem.  How many boys are going to report that Ms. Jones had sex with them yesterday, the day before, and the day before that?  The male ego, even at a young age, is too fragile to allow them to say, "I've been molested."  Look at how many grown men are just coming forward and reporting the abuse by their clergy. 
I think this is a world wide problem that is not going to go away anytime soon and that all the good intentions (surgical and chemical castration) are not going to fix it.  For as long as history has been recorded there has been abuse.  Only until now have we begun to identify it and see it as a social and moral injustice.  So what is the fix to the problem?  I'm sorry, but I don't have an answer to that question.  How can we make it go away?  I'm sorry once again, but I don't thnk we ever will totally make it go away. 

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 8:20:16 AM   
slaveish


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I recall seeing something - I don't know if it was an article or a show - that said castration isn't a cure-all. The offenders don't lose the desire to do what they do and find ways to do it anyway. It's not just about sex to them - it's about control and pain and (often) innocence of those they harm.

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 10:22:32 AM   
uwinceismile


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in as much as this topic turns my stomach.
i have seen reports on tv etc, which said that folks who sufer from this  ,can never be "healed"...and as sad as that is, my first obligation is to my um's ,,and every other child out there. as much as i hate to think of keeping them wharehoused for the rest of thier natural lifes....if what i saw reported is in fact true, i dont see an alternative.
even if a pedophile can not physically perform, he /she could always do other acts to damage a child...
just too sad to ponder

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 10:36:59 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

I recall seeing something - I don't know if it was an article or a show - that said castration isn't a cure-all. The offenders don't lose the desire to do what they do and find ways to do it anyway. It's not just about sex to them - it's about control and pain and (often) innocence of those they harm.


Sadly, from what I have learned the only thing which cures recidivism in hard-core sexual predators is castration.

It does not cure 100% of the sexual predators.

I can understand how some would perceive it as revenge.  I am not in that camp.  I have issues with it, but unfortunately, my concerns lie with the victims and survivors, not with the criminals.  

Is chemical castration reversible?

Sinergy

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 11:37:48 AM   
slaveish


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If it worked 100% of the time, I'm all for it. For that matter, if it worked 10% of the time, I'm still all for it. I think the issue would be to not become too comfy with the thought it would prevent all the stuff these dudes (and gals) are into.

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If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 4:22:56 PM   
CuriousLord


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Remove the genitals to prevent rapes? I suppose they finally tossed that tired, "Rape is all about dominance" business. Good riddens.

Nonetheless, when the State may start mutilating its citizens, even in light of a criminial offense? This strikes me as going too far.

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 4:34:17 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I suppose they finally tossed that tired, "Rape is all about dominance" business




Not sure who "they" are, but rape is a crime of violence.  Men who rape women do so in order to feel better about themselves by tearing somebody else down.

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 5:29:39 PM   
sublimelysensual


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Sexual crimes, as others have stated, aren't about the sex, they're about the violence. My concern with a habitual offender being chemically castrated and released, is that they will find another form of violence to take its' place. Ie.."well..I can't rape them, but I can sure as h*ll take them and beat the sh*t out of them/stab them/kill them." Could be wrong, but would rather not take the chance and find out....
 
-a

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 7:15:24 PM   
HaveRopeWillBind


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This idea has been brought up many times during my lifetime. It sounds feasible but it's the beginning of a slippery slope when you start hacking away bits of people to atone for crime. Next is cutting off hands to prevent theft, removing eyes to cure voyeurism, and labotomys to prevent non-PC thoughts. You really don't want to start off in that direction.

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 7:58:20 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I suppose they finally tossed that tired, "Rape is all about dominance" business




Not sure who "they" are, but rape is a crime of violence. Men who rape women do so in order to feel better about themselves by tearing somebody else down.


So you're telling me that the guy who puts a date-rape drug into the cute girl's drink at the college bar is out to destroy her.. not out to get pussy? No.

Rape -can- be about violence. It -can- be about dominance. It -can- be about sex. It -can- be about being too drunk to know what the hell you're doing. It can be about a lot of things. This cute little box of, "It's always about <insert random thing>!" is just pathetic.

Edit: PS- There's even cases of sleep-rape (sort of like sleep walking).

Excuse me if I seem like I'm on a war path recently. I'm in one of those periods where I can only stand a portion of the stupid things I see and I find myself without the will to patronize everyone quite enough. My ranting is at concepts I despise being carried on, not individuals (well, at least, not in this case).

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 7/6/2007 8:01:30 PM >

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 8:01:22 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

So you're telling me that the guy who puts a date-rape drug into the cute girl's drink at the college bar is out to destroy her.. not out to get pussy? No.



Seems pretty violent to me.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 8:03:51 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

So you're telling me that the guy who puts a date-rape drug into the cute girl's drink at the college bar is out to destroy her.. not out to get pussy? No.



Seems pretty violent to me.


Violent? He slips a something that's pretty much a sleeping pill. She has a cozy nap while he has his way with her. Often, it's gentle.

You may dislike the fact it was rape. You may find it offensive. You may call it "violent" on the grounds of what it does to the victim. But the rapist, in such a case, did not do it to be violent.

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 8:24:47 PM   
LadyAlzara


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The point remains....When does a "state"...read Government...have the right to mutilate its citizens? Beyond that...being the gun toting, redneck I am....when is the state allowed to dictate the morality of its citzens...We, as a country, seem to say when it(the crime) violates a persons individual rights...ie...theif...violent crime....so far We have used cages..and to what end? What may work when a boy forgets to take off his shoes on My clean carpet...doesn't necessarily work for a societial issue.  No...I'm not saying lets open the gates...figuratively or literally.  I am saying sometimes W/we must think outside the box. As it stands..I can accept that in order to be a part of a society...W/we all must give up some individual rights for the good of the society.  But, I'm not jumping on the band-wagon of chemical or physical castration for sex offenders...because where does it stop? I honestly want My governement to be the nastiest meaniest sonsohbitches in times of need...but to stay out of My house....talk about wanting My cake and eating it to.  Welcome to the duality of My nature.
Chemical/physical castration without consent...and I doubt many of these offenders will consent....gives the state too much power. LOL God listen to Me....I'll lock the commune gate tightly tonight....
Z

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 8:25:27 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

But the rapist, in such a case, did not do it to be violent.



Seems a pretty odd definition of a non-violent act.

A guy knowingly slips a drug into a woman's drink, and then subjecting her (edited to point out that she is helpless and unable to prevent it because he drugged her) to non-consensual genital penetration.

What would you define as a violent act?

Sinergy

p.s. I would be interested to know how you derived your insights into the rapist's state of mind.

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 7/6/2007 8:26:27 PM >


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 8:29:33 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

But the rapist, in such a case, did not do it to be violent.



Seems a pretty odd definition of a non-violent act.

A guy knowingly slips a drug into a woman's drink, and then subjecting her non-consensual genital penetration.

What would you define as a violent act?


While it doesn't strike me as violent, no, I'm not talking about if it's violent or not. I'm saying it's not about violence. That's the point we've been discussing.

[Edit] To make this clear, as I do not care to have to state this in yet more posts..
As you quoted me, I said that "the rapist did not do it to be violent". Not that it wasn't violent. In the same way, a woman might leave her husband because she's not happy in the relationship. It wasn't about crushing him, as may follow- it was about her seeking a comfortable situation for herself.[/Edit]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

p.s. I would be interested to know how you derived your insights into the rapist's state of mind.


You made an absolute statement. That rape is about violence. This is very easy to argue against in that a hypothetical may be posed, such as the one I gave.

There may be cases in which a date rape is about violence. I posed a case in which it was about sex. You are free to argue that such a hypoethetical situation is a contradiction to nature in some manner, should you beleive that no one would ever date rape for the sake of sexual desire. I certainly hope this is clear now.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 7/6/2007 8:32:17 PM >

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 9:01:22 PM   
slaveish


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CL ... ~flabbergasted~

A cozy nap? Gentle???

So if she's in a drugged stupor and can't say "no" then it makes it a less of a crime and more of a sweet date she didn't object to at the time?

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You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/6/2007 9:08:29 PM   
velvetears


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Rape is about violence and control as the driving motivator - sex is just the means to carry out the primary motivators.  We had this argument in another thread - you know my stand on this as i know yours.  i would say if the intention was to get into her pants, if control and demeaning her by drugging her were not his primary motivations he would find less risky ways of "getting him some"   Men don't drug women to get sex - not unless some other factor is at work - like enjoying demeaning and controling the woman against her will.

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/7/2007 12:11:27 AM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

CL ... ~flabbergasted~

A cozy nap? Gentle???

So if she's in a drugged stupor and can't say "no" then it makes it a less of a crime and more of a sweet date she didn't object to at the time?


Who said less of a crime? Rape can be gentle. It's not always the gun-point affair TV makes it out to be, you know. I am concerned with how many people are misinterrepting my realism for a lack of sympathy.

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RE: The Castration Cure - 7/7/2007 12:17:52 AM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Rape is about violence and control as the driving motivator - sex is just the means to carry out the primary motivators. We had this argument in another thread - you know my stand on this as i know yours. i would say if the intention was to get into her pants, if control and demeaning her by drugging her were not his primary motivations he would find less risky ways of "getting him some" Men don't drug women to get sex - not unless some other factor is at work - like enjoying demeaning and controling the woman against her will.


The idea "Men don't drug women to get sex" may well remain one of the most socially naive things I've seen someone on here say. "Most men" might work, if you ignore alcohol as a "drug".

I'm afraid you're correct in that we've had this debate before. While it troubles me that one might not be able to understand another using someone just for sex- I suppose there's no getting around a firmly held belief, even with logic. =/

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