Decision Time

Decision Time (Full Version)

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DominantAndre -> Decision Time (7/4/2007 8:32:12 AM)
Here is my dilema or rather the situation. I have a friend who I have known on and off for over 20 years. By on and off, I mean we lost contact, not that we were together. In the early years I knew that she is was a submissive by nature and possibly a slave. She has gotten married, divorced, married again and has kids. Six months ago she tracked me down and we started emailing on a regular basis. During the last 6 months she has updated me on her life, her kids and her current maritial strife and her lack of happiness. I've made some suggestions, which she has followed and made her life a little more bearable. I did these things knowing that she needs or rather requires someone to give her direction and instruction. As a DOM/MASTER do I make her aware of what she is or do I simply provide suggestions and hope that she picks up on it herself? Do I encourage her to divorce her husband and move on? In all of this, her husband does not know that she is a submissive and requires direction and instruction. Not to say that I wouldn't have a vested interest as I have been looking for a new SUB/SLAVE to train or help them with their search. This would end my search and give me someone to mold.

slaveish -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 8:40:22 AM)
Oh man. Brace yourself, pal. You just opened up a can of it. I don't have a thing about marriage and affairs - it doesn't affect my life and so it is a non-issue, but just so yanno, most folks here take a very dim view of it. My only thought is why do you have to tell her what she is? Is it not enough that you are friends and you obviously mean a great deal to her? One thing though - if she runs to you to fix her life, if she talks mostly of being miserable, she is looking for someone to ~make~ her happy, which she cannot be unless she is happy with herself. It doesn't sound like she is. It sounds like she has major issues that need resolved before she is ready to be in a committed relationship, and no amount of Domming is going to fix it. Pretty soon, you will be that guy she e-mails other guys about.

Level -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 8:40:50 AM)
Wreck a marriage, gain a submissive? Or, if the marriage is failed, would it be a matter of helping her? What about the UMs?

SubinMaine -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 8:40:56 AM)
You are in a pretty tough spot. i, personally, don't think it's wise to instruct anyone to end a commited relationship when an ulterior motive is present. It would open You up to too many "what if's." If Your friend requires instruction to an extreme extent, i see nothing wrong with educating her on how You view her situation, but be prepared to be incorrect (or viewed incorrect by her). Your best bet is to be there as a friend first, what may come of it is anyone's guess, but at least no one would be able to label You as a "homewrecker", no matter if the intention is there or not. Good luck! smile

instynctive -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 8:43:43 AM)
I'd offer advice as objectively and neutral as possible.. even to the point of just showing her different "doors" and instead of answering her questions, have her dig deep inside herself and answer those questions herself. I would never go out of my way to suggest to an unhappy person they should divorce, or leave their S/O.. that just seems like it would be bad Karma. Your vested "interest" should take a back seat in this, and primary focus should be on helping your friend, as opposed to "recruiting" a s/s. These are just my opinions, of course, and you are free to tell me to bugger off... but in the long run, if she makes decisions herself, then she won't be able to hold anything "against" you, and should prove to form a closer relationship, no matter the outcome. Best of luck.

RCdc -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 8:46:48 AM)
Why should she divorce? What gives you that authority to issue such a suggestion? Have you heard his side of the 'unhappiness'? Really - if you want to be a friend - then suggest that she tell him about her submission and give him the chance to decide for himself whether he can give her direction you believe she 'requires'. But that is about it as you said, you have a vested interest and that is already clouding your judgement. Peace the.dark.

MySweetSubmssive -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 9:04:25 AM)
I would look carefully at the trope of "I'm just trying to help her." While that may be part of your motivation, what's also working here is "I want to poach her." Do you really want to be a friend? Be above-board and transparent. Give her information and observations about D/s if you will. Don't online romance her. MSS

CitizenCane -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 9:30:48 AM)
There are at least two seperate issues here. One is poaching. I'm agin it, even though the institution of marriage isn't important to me. It IS important to other people, and they need to make up their own minds about getting into and out of it. Being the agent of ending someone else's committed relationship doesn't bode well for your own future together anyway- lots of room for recriminations, etc. The other issue is about helping someone get insight into their own issues and personality type. I'm not opposed to this, especially if you remove yourself from the 'vested interest' class. Many people can turn their lives around in positive ways if they are able to see themselves differently and more accurately than they are acustomed to. The trick is knowing whether your insights are really valid. People exhibit submissive behavior for all sorts of reasons, some of them very unhealthy. 'Natural submissiveness' may be her core personality, or what you see may be a response to abuse and low self esteem, among other things. It's not wrong to suggest perspectives to people about what may be going on their life, but telling them who they are is pretty dicey.

LotusSong -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 9:32:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantAndre Here is my dilema or rather the situation. I have a friend who I have known on and off for over 20 years. By on and off, I mean we lost contact, not that we were together. In the early years I knew that she is was a submissive by nature and possibly a slave. She has gotten married, divorced, married again and has kids. Six months ago she tracked me down and we started emailing on a regular basis. During the last 6 months she has updated me on her life, her kids and her current maritial strife and her lack of happiness. I've made some suggestions, which she has followed and made her life a little more bearable. I did these things knowing that she needs or rather requires someone to give her direction and instruction. As a DOM/MASTER do I make her aware of what she is or do I simply provide suggestions and hope that she picks up on it herself? Do I encourage her to divorce her husband and move on? In all of this, her husband does not know that she is a submissive and requires direction and instruction. Not to say that I wouldn't have a vested interest as I have been looking for a new SUB/SLAVE to train or help them with their search. This would end my search and give me someone to mold. Just be her friend. She'll figure out her life herself. You are simply a Dom, not God. It's her marriage, it's her mess, unless you want to make it YOUR mess... butt out.

Dane -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 9:48:34 AM)
This is a thread with a lot of great advice already offered by others. To the OP: Not even professional therapists ever advise a person to leave or stay in a relationship unless there is abuse. Take a hint from them, and just listen to your friend empathically, knowing that she will in all likelihood stay in her marriage for at least a good long time, possibly giving you a headache when or if things get so desperate that she's talking to you about her problems constantly. Unless the advice you're giving her already is geared to bettering her married life, taking into account her husband's and childrens' needs, then you must quit giving it.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 10:19:16 AM)
IMO it would be wrong of you to do anything other than to support her trying to maintain the commitments she has made and give her the strength and tools to not only make things work as best as possible, but to make the best judgement calls for herself.

alandraofMists -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 11:16:56 AM)
this is my opinion... quote: ORIGINAL: DominantAndre As a DOM/MASTER do I make her aware of what she is or do I simply provide suggestions and hope that she picks up on it herself? Do I encourage her to divorce her husband and move on? In all of this, her husband does not know that she is a submissive and requires direction and instruction. Why not express to her how you see her as a person that needs "someone to give her direction and instruction" and why you see her that way. That it might help her marraige to explore this with her Husband. and to see if it helps their relationship. if the husband does not know this about her and has no knowledge of this type of dymanic, it would not be something he would try even if it was something he could do. quote: Not to say that I wouldn't have a vested interest as I have been looking for a new SUB/SLAVE to train or help them with their search. This would end my search and give me someone to mold. Exactly, you have a vested interest in breaking up the marraige... but if this person is someone you care about would it not be better to look after what is best for her and her kids intead of what is best for you. just because the husband is not giving direction and instruction at this time does not mean that he can not do it once he understands that it is something she wants and needs... i know of a couple in a 30 +year marriage that the lady almost walk away because she figured out that she wanted and needed to be in a D/s relationship... she was going to leave her husband because she could not express to her husband what she wanted... in talking to my Lord on another board... she found the courage to express it and they have grown closer and strenghtened their relationship into a D/s relationship. to see them now compared to what they were like 5 plus years ago is like night and day in the happiness and closeness they have. Knight's Alandra

octavia -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 11:55:44 AM)
I cast my vote in the "she needs to tell her spouse about her needs" camp. Also, it really comes to mind that there are two sides to every story and I would be very leary of advising action only knowing half the information. There are people out there who are unable/incabable of taking personal responsibility for their own actions. They tend to tell people just part of a situation and then basically ask them for direction, or permission thereby absolving(sp) themselves for any responsibility for their own choices and actions. Being submissive does not equal helpless. She got herself into this relationship, she is capable of getting out if that is what she needs to do. Again, as was mentioned earlier, if she is willing to rake this guy over the coals with you, a clear new love interest, she will be willing to do it with you down the road with Mr. Next. Just my humble opinion as always, oct

AquaticSub -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 12:09:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantAndre Here is my dilema or rather the situation. I have a friend who I have known on and off for over 20 years. By on and off, I mean we lost contact, not that we were together. In the early years I knew that she is was a submissive by nature and possibly a slave. She has gotten married, divorced, married again and has kids. Six months ago she tracked me down and we started emailing on a regular basis. During the last 6 months she has updated me on her life, her kids and her current maritial strife and her lack of happiness. I've made some suggestions, which she has followed and made her life a little more bearable. I did these things knowing that she needs or rather requires someone to give her direction and instruction. As a DOM/MASTER do I make her aware of what she is or do I simply provide suggestions and hope that she picks up on it herself? Do I encourage her to divorce her husband and move on? In all of this, her husband does not know that she is a submissive and requires direction and instruction. Not to say that I wouldn't have a vested interest as I have been looking for a new SUB/SLAVE to train or help them with their search. This would end my search and give me someone to mold. Here is the thing... unless she has told you she is a sub/slave, you don't actually know. She may have a beta personality, she may be the "follow the leader" type, but that doesn't mean she would be at all interested in having someone control her life. She may have followed your suggestions because they were good ones, not because you told her to. I know a lovely young woman who is very "follow the leader". She would make a horrid sub or slave because while she prefers to follow the leader and prefers to be told how to do things, she is not at all going to give up the power to say "Fuck off, I don't feel like it". And while she prefers to follow the leader and make the group happy, if she really doesn't want to do something, she isn't going to do it. No ifs, ands or buts.

bliss1 -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 12:16:17 PM)
Having been on both sides of this fence - you can't wreck what is already wrecked (and if she is that unhappy in her marriage - it sounds like it is a goner already.) I would suggest that you give her guideance to find what she feels would make her happy (encourage her to this WITH NO one in mind - but just what she wants). Until she has done this, even if you are the man she goes to, the inner demons will follow her and not be a positive in the relationship you may develope.

Lashra -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 2:28:25 PM)
She needs to be talking to her husband not you, after all, he is the one she married. Until she recognizes that there are things about herself that she needs to fix no one is going to be able to help her. If you want to be a friend then be it, listen to her and give her encouragement but do not tell her how to live her life in the hopes she ends up in your lap as a sub/slave to train. That is belittling the friendship by having an ulterior motive. ~Lashra

Mystique567 -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 3:24:08 PM)
I was married to a vanilla man, and what they are telling you is the right thing to do, she has to make that step, not to be with you but for herself. She also needs to give her husband a chance to provide what she needs in the marriage. That can't happen with you right around the corner ready to step in if he fails.

LeatherBentOne -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 3:32:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish Oh man. Brace yourself, pal. You just opened up a can of it. I don't have a thing about marriage and affairs - it doesn't affect my life and so it is a non-issue, but just so yanno, most folks here take a very dim view of it. My only thought is why do you have to tell her what she is? Is it not enough that you are friends and you obviously mean a great deal to her? One thing though - if she runs to you to fix her life, if she talks mostly of being miserable, she is looking for someone to ~make~ her happy, which she cannot be unless she is happy with herself. It doesn't sound like she is. It sounds like she has major issues that need resolved before she is ready to be in a committed relationship, and no amount of Domming is going to fix it. Pretty soon, you will be that guy she e-mails other guys about. Awesome response.

PairOfDimes -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 3:39:35 PM)
Is her life improved by doing the particular things you're suggesting? That is, if she had come up with the idea to do a particular thing without receiving advice from you, would doing the thing have improved her life as much or more? Or, is her life simply improved because she finds it fulfilling to do things someone else suggests--independent of what those things are? Ascertain that, and you should have a much more refined idea of the situation and your possible paths. Remember, please, that accepting a friend's advice, acting in accordance with it, and finding the advice effective does not a submissive make.

Celeste43 -> RE: Decision Time (7/4/2007 6:41:51 PM)
If you really care about her, encourage her to get into therapy. Don't deliberately try to destroy her family.

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