Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law

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selfbnd411 -> Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 7:23:08 AM)
Wow...This is why trial by jury is a joke these days. This guy was caught on tape ordering a compliant suspect to stand up, and then shooting him multiple times for...attempting to stand up. The best part is juror Richard Day's legal reasoning: We cannot prosecute cops for breaking the law because it might dissuade other cops from making tough choices in the field. In short, the police must be kept above the law so they can keep the rest of us under the law! Simply incredible. There's a reason San Bernandino County is known as the redneck capital of California. And no, I don't mean just white. It seems to attract rednecks of all races! Edit to add: I also find it outrageous that the article suggests that because the cop is black and the suspect Latino, racism could not have been a factor. Is the idea that only white people are capable of racism? Ex-deputy cleared in shooting of off-duty airman Jury acquits Ivory John Webb Jr. in the videotaped January 2006 confrontation, which came after a high-speed chase in Chino. By Maeve Reston, Times Staff Writer June 29, 2007 A former San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy who fired on an unarmed, off-duty Air Force police officer last year — a videotaped shooting that drew outrage when it was aired nationwide — was acquitted Thursday of attempted voluntary manslaughter. Ivory John Webb Jr., 46, the son of a former Compton police chief, was the first law enforcement officer to face criminal charges for an on-duty shooting in San Bernardino County. Webb, also acquitted of assault with a firearm, would have faced up to an 18-year prison sentence if he had been convicted. ... The jury of eight men and four women spent less than half a day deliberating after the four-week trial in the San Bernardino courtroom. The case was dominated by the video footage of the Jan. 29, 2006, shooting on a residential street in Chino, as well as by dueling experts on police tactics and use of deadly force. Outside the San Bernardino County courtroom, jurors said they were swayed more by the volatile, dangerous situation the suspects created during the high-speed chase than by the video. "Police officers have to be given the right to make their decisions," said juror Richard Day, 43, of Highland. "If they make a bad decision in the line of duty, should we hold them responsible for that to the point that we incarcerate them for it? I don't think so." The jury was composed of eight whites, three blacks and one Latino. ... In freeze-frames of the video shown countless times by the defense, Carrion raises his left hand toward Webb at least twice. He testified that he may have been trying to shield his eyes from Webb's flashlight. Though Webb had told him repeatedly to keep his hands on the ground, Carrion then appeared to use his right hand to gesture as he told Webb several times, "We're here on your side" and "We mean you no harm." Carrion then told Webb he had more training in the military and the police than the deputy did. "You … believe me, all right?" Carrion said as he pointed toward his chest. Webb then appears to tell Carrion twice to "get up." When Carrion says, "OK, I'm getting up" and starts to rise, Webb shoots him three times. ... Webb "didn't know anything about these people," said juror Linda Goldstein, 58, of San Bernardino. "They were belligerent. If they had kept their mouths shut and obeyed what he had told them to do — none of this would have happened." Goldstein said jurors took a preliminary vote on the attempted voluntary manslaughter charge less than two hours after they began deliberating and every juror said Webb was not guilty. Webb initially told detectives that Carrion had lunged at him after ignoring orders to stay on the ground. Several days later, after watching the video, Webb told detectives he believed Carrion was reaching for a weapon when he fired. ... Webb, who left the Sheriff's Department a few months after the incident, still must contend with a federal lawsuit Carrion filed against Webb and the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. He alleges that Webb tried to kill him and that the deputy's supervisors deliberately kept ambulances from reaching him, exacerbating his injuries. Thom Mrozek, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office, also said federal attorneys had not made a decision about whether to pursue a civil rights case against Webb. "We were monitoring the state court prosecution, and we will review the matter to determine if a federal investigation is warranted," Mrozek said. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-airman29jun29,0,191973.story?coll=la-home-center

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 7:31:25 AM)
quote: Is the idea that only white people are capable of racism? Yep...and its also ok to use racial slurs against white people too.....ain't it grand.....

farglebargle -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 9:46:06 AM)
Wow. "Keep Your Mouth Shut And Obey Or Lethal Force Is Justified". Anyone wanna disagree that we're as bad as the commies? How is this any different from what the Fundie Muslims do, when they kill someone for not being obedient enough? This was Murder. If you're a follower of Jesus, take comfort in the fact that they will be consigned to Hell, Forever.

nyrisa -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 10:00:00 AM)
Ummmmm.........it really isn't murder, unless the victim dies. Apparently he lived, since he is suing the police force. "Webb, who left the Sheriff's Department a few months after the incident, still must contend with a federal lawsuit Carrion filed against Webb and the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. He alleges that Webb tried to kill him and that the deputy's supervisors deliberately kept ambulances from reaching him, exacerbating his injuries."

popeye1250 -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 10:21:49 AM)
I don't know Self, it's not just San Bernardino Co, look at the O.J. case. Seems like there's two "schools of thought" in Calif, Redneck and Moonbat. Now as far as the victim being Latino that that doesn't clear up a lot. That's the ethnic group he belongs to, what is his race? Most Latinos are Caucaision. Did the rogue cop make any racist slurs? Maybe they should have a jury school in Calif.

slaveish -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 11:14:03 AM)
A jury of plural people, as in multiple, as in more than one person, determined the verdict. Apparently they felt there was reasonable doubt. We were not in the courtroom, did not sit through all the testimony, and so we are not in a position to make an informed decision about it. We can speculate all we want, however. So. Carry on.

popeye1250 -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 11:37:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish A jury of plural people, as in multiple, as in more than one person, determined the verdict. Apparently they felt there was reasonable doubt. We were not in the courtroom, did not sit through all the testimony, and so we are not in a position to make an informed decision about it. We can speculate all we want, however. So. Carry on. Slavish, that's very true, we don't have enough information to make an informed opinion! And you know how I feel about jurys!

farglebargle -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 11:39:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nyrisa Ummmmm.........it really isn't murder, unless the victim dies. Apparently he lived, since he is suing the police force. "Webb, who left the Sheriff's Department a few months after the incident, still must contend with a federal lawsuit Carrion filed against Webb and the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. He alleges that Webb tried to kill him and that the deputy's supervisors deliberately kept ambulances from reaching him, exacerbating his injuries." So, add INCOMPETENCE to the laundry list of charges against the Cop. EVERYONE who handles firearms knows, don't pull it out if you're not going to use it. And if you're going to use it, someone is going to die. NYPD knows the score. They shot Diallo on his DOORSTEP as he was trying to GIVE THEM HIS WALLET *41 TIMES*

selfbnd411 -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 3:34:57 PM)
At this point, all we have to go on are the statements of two jurors. Juror one said that it was wrong to send officers to prison for bad decisions in the field. Juror two said that we can't second guess what the officer did because we were not there. The common theme? Neither One or Two mentioned what should have been the most important thing in this case--their finding of fact. They stressed the idea that the *concept* of holding an officer responsible for his actions in the field was wrong. That is not their role, however. A juror's job is to determine the guilt or innocence of a person based on the evidence and utilizing the law at hand, not to determine whether that law is just or fair. This is jury nullification, plain and simple. I have always believed that jurors ought to have to write an opinion when they make any sort of judgement, just as judges do. If a juror cannot explain why he or she decided a certain way, then they have not deliberated enough. And Popeye...yes, the OJ trial was a joke too. Johnny Cochran told the jury to "send a message" to the system by voting not guilty. Obscene. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish A jury of plural people, as in multiple, as in more than one person, determined the verdict. Apparently they felt there was reasonable doubt. We were not in the courtroom, did not sit through all the testimony, and so we are not in a position to make an informed decision about it. We can speculate all we want, however. So. Carry on.

farglebargle -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/29/2007 4:09:58 PM)
Yeah, but they didn't have the BALLS to say the crime of Attempted Murder wasn't a valid charge, like a REAL Jury Nullification proponent would have suggested. I think it just goes to show, essentially, how fucking stupid people are. I think bending at the knee might be genetic. We need to eliminate that gene.

trixxitrash -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/30/2007 3:10:25 AM)
7 days. Read Toni Morrison's Song of Solomon, substituting cop for white, civillian for black. Might make em think twice before pulling the trigger.

Alumbrado -> RE: Jury: Police Officers are Above the Law (6/30/2007 5:35:26 AM)
quote: ....what should have been the most important thing in this case--their finding of fact. They stressed the idea that the *concept* of holding an officer responsible for his actions in the field was wrong. That is not their role, however. A juror's job is to determine the guilt or innocence of a person based on the evidence and utilizing the law at hand, not to determine whether that law is just or fair. This is jury nullification, plain and simple. That is a juror's job in the movies.... In the real world, jurors are required to consider only the parts the judge says they are to consider. In this case, it sounds like the jurors were attempting to interpret an instruction regarding the sort of immunity that police officers hold for their actions on the job. To ignore that instruction and deal out homemade 'justice' because the police shoulda-coulda-woulda acted like the good guys on TV, would in fact be jury nullification.

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