forgetting=disobeying? part 2

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SeeksOnlyOne -> forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 7:05:09 PM)
there is a thread on the ask a master that i have commented on, and have not been able to get out of my mind, with this title(well not the part 2 obviously). rather than hijack it, i chose to start this one. it seems, sometimes, when folks start by saying i really ask this to get different input, from different perspectives, and i mean no disrespect to any viewpoint, accusations of being disrespectful to someone elses choices are made. knowing all of this, i don my fireproof clothes and state with sincerity....i really ask this to get different input, from different perspectives, and mean no disrespect to anyone elses viewpoint. i have thought about this, and it will not compute in my head. i dont know if it will compute after this thread, but i will have tried to get opinions of people i believe have true convictions, no matter which side they fall on. I KNOW I KNOW get to the effin point already............ i can, in no way, see how forgetting to take ones meds, needed to help with panic or depression or diabetes or heart problems or (insert your illness here), relates to the dynamic of D/s. i do not understand the arguments of "he didnt dom well enough, tough enough" etc. taking meds that you need, to help you maintain a frame of mind or body better than without those meds, in my mind anyhow, is a personal responsibility. no matter your role in this lifestyle-some things fall squarely on your shoulders to do, your personal health-whether physical or mental, being one of them. i really just dont get it.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 7:10:20 PM)
But there are two people in the relationship. If one is not taking meds that keep them even, blood sugar down, heart rate regular, BP lowered then that affects the other involved. In our dynamics Master cares about me and protects me. Would he not be failing in his job as a Master to let me go one forgetting meds that keep me somewhat healthy? It just isn't about one person in the dynamic in my opinion.

asubmissiveheart -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 7:15:45 PM)
Since I am owned, everything I do especially issues with my health are my Mistresses business. That is part of our power exchange, I have given her the power to direct many areas of my life from what I wear, how I spend most of my free time, and she makes sure I get great medical care. Part of taking control of someone, means controlling a lot of activities outside of the bedroom. In fact, she makes most of my medical and dental appointments and makes sure I take care of myself. She wants me healthy, and I appreciate her concern.

sublimelysensual -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 9:22:22 PM)
Let me preface this by saying what i'm going to be giving my opinion on is long term meds..not a course of antibiotics, or something you take for a week, but a med you take on a day to day basis for a period longer than a month. That being said..to me, if you're an adult and can't manage to find some way to take your meds on a day to day basis consistantly without having a Dom/me remind you about it, you shouldn't be in a relationship, particularly in wiiwd. Things like post-it notes, calendars, pill boxes, were invented for a reason. I simply think there's no excuse for forgetting other than a veeeery occasional day. If you're not responsible to take your meds..how are you responsible enough to be involved with someone? Especially with someone whom you're taking a very big responsibility for in your life? I do think it relates to D/s, in the sense that if you're not taking the responsibility for your health, your Dominant is going to be the one bearing the brunt of it when you have a major sugar drop, when you become manic, etc. But that, to me, doesn't mean it becomes the Dom/me's responsibility to make you take them..you're not their child..you're their s-type, and in my personal experience, most Dom/mes don't take on an s-type because they want kids. Riding your butt about your meds should not be their responsibility, if they want to take it on, fine, but if they don't remind you one day, and you don't take them, it's still not their fault, because technically it is YOUR job to keep yourself in the best possible health for them, not to mention the issues I brought up above. Anyway, just another perspective, you know what they say about opinions and arseholes... -a

CuriousLord -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 10:49:28 PM)
To the OP: For the first.. most of it.. no worries. No need for such a long "don't flame me" intro. Trust me, it's just better to ignore silly people. For the point.. If a Dom orders a sub to take meds, and the sub doesn't, this is a failure to obey. Should this be because the sub willing choses not to, it's disobidience. Should this be because the sub forgets, this is simply a failure, to be dealt with at the Dom's discression. (Typically, I think forgetfulness happens. Depending on the intensity of the dynmaic, failure to remember can simply a matter of higher priorities in the way. Some subs might obey normally, but simply not consider the dynamic often enough to remember "little" orders in a morning's rush to work or so.)

mystiquenz -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 10:49:58 PM)
Greetings, I would suggest you look at it from a point of "personal responsibility" and agrees with the OP. How does the fact that a bottom, sub or slave, who is not being responsibile for their own health, what do they think they are contributing to any relationship? I do not understand why a Dominant would want any girl or boy, who simply is into self neglect. If they are owned one would still think they would have sufficient interest in maintaining a healthy balance for their owner. Guess it takes all sorts to make up any community, but when it comes to any one's health, without it, you are a long time dead. Blessings,

sublizzie -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 11:00:56 PM)
If I were to wait for a Dominant to make sure that I took my meds I'd be dead. I believe I am personally responsible for myself. Since I don't have a Dominant, that means I take my own meds on time or suffer the consequences. OTOH, I can understand how some people forget to take their meds and need reminders. Having a Dominant who enjoys that kind of caretaking would be very useful for them. There are probably Dominants who would like a submissive to caretake their pill taking as well. Part of being in a relationship is finding someone whose ying complements (or completes, depending on your particular word choice) their yang.

MistressScarlot -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/26/2007 11:14:36 PM)
Every morning, my collared boy brings me the medicine I need to take. Since I need to be on it.../and/ I don't have a great memory, it is his responsibility to make sure I get it. I do get a little irate if he forgets, knowing that there are so many terrible side effects (including memory loss... ; ). But I also know that /he/ knows that, and trust that he's doing the best he can. It is an extension of the trust between us that he takes this task on. He gets genuinely upset if I ask him "Did you give me my medicine this morning?" when he realizes that he forgot. He loves me, and wants me to be as healthy as possible, and I know and trust that. I know he does his best. He always works to do better, but I'm a high maintenance girl, and there's a lot to remember. Some mornings, /I/ actually remember...and he forgets. I do actually try to remember, because my well-being is important to me, and I want to be sure to catch it if he forgets, if I can manage it. So in the rare case that it happens that he forgot and /I/ remembered... I wait an appropriate time, and then remind him. That bit of reinforcement really helps to get him to remember, because he gets irritated enough with himself in the moment to make it stick in his head a little better. He's not the sort of boy who needs a socket wrench to the head in order to get the point. Which is very nice. : ). How you view this particular situation/scenario, like many other things, largely depends on the perspective that you're coming from. Scarlot

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 6:01:53 AM)
thanks to all of you who replied.........all of you made sense in some way to me.....

thetammyjo -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 6:12:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual That being said..to me, if you're an adult and can't manage to find some way to take your meds on a day to day basis consistantly without having a Dom/me remind you about it, you shouldn't be in a relationship, particularly in wiiwd. Things like post-it notes, calendars, pill boxes, were invented for a reason. I simply think there's no excuse for forgetting other than a veeeery occasional day. If you're not responsible to take your meds..how are you responsible enough to be involved with someone? Especially with someone whom you're taking a very big responsibility for in your life? I wanted to applaud this. Being someone's slave or submissive is not an excuse to behave as anything other than a fully functional adult unless your dynamic is built around that expectation. If your relationship is built around the dynamic that you are not a fully functional adult then the dom sets up the rules and should see them enforced. Not taking meds or forgetting a rule then becomes the same as being disobedient and should be punished. I'm betting every dom has a limit on how much disobedience she will accept before ending that dynamic all together. If you as the sub or slave are supposed to be a fully functional adult then that means you are keeping your responsibility to take care of yourself and probably to also help take care of your dom and her property. Personally when I evaluate someone as a potential or during training one of the criteria I use is how well they manage their own life. I know that some folks actually don't want someone like this because it doesn't mesh with their idea of "slave" or "sub" but frankly being disorganized, unable or unwilling to manage one's life well, or wanting to turn over all responsibilities sounds very unslavelike to me. As I have said many times, in my household the slave's primary duty is to make the owner's life easier -- needing to manage let alone micromanage someone does not make my life easier.

Rover -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 6:17:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne i can, in no way, see how forgetting to take ones meds, needed to help with panic or depression or diabetes or heart problems or (insert your illness here), relates to the dynamic of D/s. i do not understand the arguments of "he didnt dom well enough, tough enough" etc. taking meds that you need, to help you maintain a frame of mind or body better than without those meds, in my mind anyhow, is a personal responsibility. no matter your role in this lifestyle-some things fall squarely on your shoulders to do, your personal health-whether physical or mental, being one of them. i really just dont get it. I have had personal experience with this issue in two separate power exchange relationships. But let me preface this with the following. There are no universal responsibilities of either a Dominant or a submissive/slave in a power exchange relationship. Their responsibilities are those that they make to each other, not what they read from some contrived list at an online bulletin board. And as it relates to this topic specifically, the issue may or may not be related to their D/s dynamic, depending upon what they have (uniquely) agreed upon for their relationship. Having said that, I agree completely that taking medications in a timely fashion is a matter of personal responsibility. And I make a distinction between purposely refusing to take them (which is an entirely different problem), and forgetting to take them. In the context of my personal power exchange relationships, we agreed that while both of us were ultimately responsible for our own personal behavior (shocked?), I was also responsible to help devise a method to greatly reduce, if not eliminate, those times when she would forget to take her meds. We tried several different methods until we found one that worked. It was not a matter of punishment. It wasn't a matter of beratement. It was a matter of working together, mutually, to solve a problem. Problem solved, life moves on. John

softness -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 6:34:04 AM)
I am hopeless at remembering to take my asthma meds - the dosage and combination of what i take when etc changes from week to week and even my doctor cant keep up with it sometimes - we are talking 3 inhalers, 4 types of pills and various supplements all needing to be taken at different times of the day. I have had to put things in place to remind myself constantly to takle them (most useful so far has been to put red sticky dots all over the place - when i see a red dot am reminded that there are meds to take at some point soon) because I have a rubbish short term memory and when you take so many potions in a day keeping track is difficult. But it is my responsibility, not anybody elses, and i would resist a Dominant trying to take control of the situation. If they were the type of person, and ours was the type of dynamic wherethey became part of my medical routine then that is one thing, taking responsibility for it ... not a chance.

ready4srvce4all -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 6:37:55 AM)
If I have to take medications that are necessary, forgetting them hurts not just my health, but those that care for me. This is where I feel constant, not occasional, forgetfullness is disobedience. When we entered into a relationship, we had a baseline of health status that was acceptable with our partners. Certainly, as we get older, there will be deviations from that baseline, for better or worse. But when a condition that is already being controlled, and known to both partners, is forgotten with regularity, then it is disobedience. I am responsible for Mistress' vitamins....whether actually bringing them to Her, or just to ask if Her husband took them to Her. She told me from the very beginning that any potential slave was going to be required to provide that service for Her. So if I "forgot" Her vitamins, then who is responsible? I was told specifically that She is forgetful in taking them, hence why Her slave must perform this duty. I have lost a good bit of weight since the beginning of the year. The impetus was to eliminate the need for antihypertensives, which I wasn't taking anyhow. They made me tired, and blood pressure medications prevented me from getting a full erection. So I decided instead of Viagra, to change my lifestyle, lose the weight, and not worry about the impending stroke from refusing to take medication that would prevent that. Four months into this change, was when my first contact started with Mistress. I have continued to lose weight, and though my blood pressure still could be lower, it is not at the level I need a medication. All this having been said, if I put weight back on, and then my BP shoots up, and I am at a level I need medication again...am I being fair to Mistress if I don't take them, or even get them? That is pure disobedience...She was under the expectations of my health status at the time we met, and that I am obligated to inform Her of any changes. We all are obligated to do so with our partners. She's not going to release me because I need to be on blood pressure medication, but She certainly would be warranted to do so if I needed them and willfully didn't take those medications. I'm not sure if my longwinded diatribe explains what I was trying to say. Yes, to continually "forget" to take a necessary medication is disobedience.

Rover -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 6:50:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness But it is my responsibility, not anybody elses, and i would resist a Dominant trying to take control of the situation. If they were the type of person, and ours was the type of dynamic wherethey became part of my medical routine then that is one thing, taking responsibility for it ... not a chance. Of course, every relationship is unique. But I wanted to point out that I never felt that the responsibility for taking meds transfered from her to me. It remained her personal responsibility to do so. I felt responsible for helping her devise a method to remember to do so. That's quite another issue entirely. I can't imagine a healthy relationship in which someone did not share a good idea with their partner. John

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 8:14:07 AM)
more good points for me to chew on at work......ahhhhh i love distractions.... i totally get the helping find a way to remember.....and i totally get it would be disobedience if you were told to take them and forgot.... i guess it boils down to each dynamic, i just know i wouldnt ever put that responsibility on someone else.....to me, it is the same as brushing my teeth, washing my hands at the appropriate times, wearing a coat when its cold outside.....etc etc...things i do for me

MasterFireMaam -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 8:22:47 AM)
Anything that is done that affects the person's ability to function properly affect the relationship. If she's forgotten her meds, she's not kept herself fit for service. Of, if they've negotiation that he's responsible for making sure she takes them, he's not assuming the leadership role to which he agreed. Both of these affect the Ds dynamic. Master Fire

GhitaAmati -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 8:23:07 AM)
I take pills on a regular basis, as a preventitive for migraines. I've been taking them for years, during times I was collared and times I was on my own. I have always felt it is my own responsibility to make sure I take them, and to come up with a system that works for me to make sure I remember them. My last Sir, decided that what would help me the most was for him to take over making sure I took them, and that was fine. In that relationship, he made the decision to take on that responsibility. Truthfully, it was still technically my responsibiliity, but in that instant I had given control of that over to him. Now, in my current relationship, it is up to me to remember to take them. Sometimes in the evening, I will get asked, "did you remember to take your pills today?" Thats not him telling me to do it, its a gentle reminder...and I dont get punished if I forget, but the dissapointment is bad enough....I very rarely forget...the pain of a migraine is reminder enough to want to take them...but occasionaly, if the kids are sick, or im in town all day and dont get home in time...it happens... ghita amati

GhitaAmati -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 8:28:08 AM)
quote: i guess it boils down to each dynamic, i just know i wouldnt ever put that responsibility on someone else.....to me, it is the same as brushing my teeth, washing my hands at the appropriate times, wearing a coat when its cold outside.....etc etc...things i do for me And I know some relationships where Tops take over all those things also, along with when to go potty and some Tops even feed thier subs, and dress them...not for me, but it it works for them, more power to them. If a certain thing is a part of that relationships Dynamic, then not doing it equals disobediance...it may not be in another relationship...its for that particular Dom to decide. I may be allowed to do things others arent, I may not be allowed to do something that everyone else here takes for granted...doesnt make any of us wrong, or better or worse subs...just different relationships, what works for us...sometimes people tell me about what goes on in their relationships..and inside my mind..I may think "dang those people are insane".....but, I just shrug and say ok...grin ghita amati

cjenny -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 9:27:49 AM)
Heya all, sorry in advance for the length of this entry. It is taken from one of my online journal entries & I am hoping that it will explain to some degree as to why I must have help remembering my meds. This is me, not anyone else, this is just why I in particular need him to help me every day. The following text/explanation happens to me about 5 times a month. Oh, Mickey is my dog heh. Well here goes, I'm nervous & I'm worried about how you people will see me now. Sigh. ~~~ may 13th. emotional stress. turns into my personal monster. pain and such lack of strength it is like a slab of rock laying on me. the pain isnt crushing pain but the lack of strength is like being trapped and unable to move. lifting an arm is effort. my jaw starts to tighten then cramp. that pain radiates from my jaw, to my neck, collarbone and shoulders then arms. stomach pain for three days, upper stomach just below the sternum. not a sharp gaseous pain, a throbbing unrelenting pain. nausea and diarrhea. unable to keep food in my stomach=diarrhea, unable to eat=tmj. losing words, spelling. fine motor skills such as typing and handwriting. memory gaps, unable to remember details of previous day. unable to retain pages of book read, name of movie watched. conversations. phone numbers. basic facts and words :( very scary. causes more stress and depression. meds? did i take em? i cant remember. vision isnt...right. eyes hurt, moving them hurts. light sensitivity. auditory sensitivity ...tmj? severe actually debilitating depression. balance way off, not dizzy but its like the floor shifts. leg pain, both legs in the thighs. deep inside the leg, feels almost like the bone. feet hurt, putting my weight on my feet. insomnia no matter what combo of sleep meds or any single med. low grade fevers usually in the morning and late afternoon. extreme drop in appetite. seems like i cant regulate my body temp. fell three times in four days. unable to finish grocery shopping, too hard to walk or concentrate. i just hug mickey and cry into her fur. she learned a new thing, when i say 'steady' she goes stiff so i can lean on her. sweet lovey dog. i worry im forgetting to feed her right. gods i hate this hate this hate this. May- not sure what day this is tho. thinking problems, depression, stomach are much improved. pain level is 7. down from five days of pain level 10. insomnia is NOT improved. it is 3:00am, took two trazodone and one soma. i am exhausted but cant sleep. im not worrying over things, not even sleep. i simply dont go to sleep anymore.

cjenny -> RE: forgetting=disobeying? part 2 (6/27/2007 11:48:04 AM)
I never put the responsiblilty on him, he took it himself. It has taken a few years for him to convince me that it is okay to need him. That it is okay and actually preferred by him to be what some call in that negative way 'micro management'. Slowly it has become our dynamic and I think that is because I truly needed and he truly needed to supply the help. Almost everyone sees it as such a negative thing and I don't understand why. Hopefully it can be seen from my posts over time here that I am not mentally deficient & no, my IQ is not in the 70's. I do though have problems & he loves me anyway. He wants me to be strong & independent if not in my body at least then in my mind. So yeah he makes sure on a daily basis that I eat and take my meds. That does not mean he has to tell me 'when to go potty'. It is simply a different form of control. Do those in a financial domination dynamic get told that they are incompetent? How about those that are told what they are to wear at all times? For those that 'don't get it' well I 'don't get' the reason for the questioning to begin with. For the record I wish I hadn't made the above post. It was an impulsive move to try and have others see an alternative view but I think it just made me look vulnerable & not viable. Which is not true [:D]. Usually. [8D]

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