RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/22/2007 2:02:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Have it your way Level; Blair is a 'Rose', and the Hitler youth were... what?......I never said Ratzinger hung out with Gobbels, or Mengle. But, the word images are emblazzoned in your brain, and that is what you, yourself see...I didn't put that image there, you conjured it yourself. Each word gave you the image, that you, yourself see.

No, you never said those things specifically, but you certainly inferred Ratzinger belongs in the same heap.

And your judgement of Ratzinger is from the information he and his brother created, what you believe, it to be, is what Ratzinger allowed you to have.

I want to know more, and there is no more, because he and his brother erased all, to become as lily white as could be.

I'm all for truth and knowlege; if you find any regarding the Pope, by all means, share.

At 14 years, I knew what I wanted, and believed what I believed, and only time has changed some things; but I never had need to erase my 14 year old expierences, I never did anything nor joined anything to be charged with or reproached for in any way whatsoever.

But you didn't grow up in the middle of the bizarro hell of Nazi Germany, either. Our environment plays a part, sometimes, in what we do and are.

Condem his whole life, why not; Slophie Scholl was condemed, her entire life, no excuses for her.

She was incredibly brave and a Christian, I wonder what she would say about condemning Ratzinger?

I'm not so sensitive, more of a passionaria.

And, would you like mustard or mayo with that order?  Sauerkraut as a side dish?





LadyEllen -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/22/2007 2:06:24 PM)

The CofE is a broad church - one finds "high church" which is very close to RC in terms of rite etc and "low church" which is a lot less formal.

One of the differences between the two apparently is the view on transsubstantiation; RC claims the bread and wine literally become the body and blood, CofE claims its a figurative thing.

Another difference is that whilst drinking is not forbidden in CofE or RC, only in RC does it seem an obligation to get absolutely plastered at every opportunity, call someone "a feckin gobshite" and smash their lights in.

E




dragone -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/22/2007 4:36:03 PM)

Okay Mr. Level, here we go.......Ratzinger was in the hitler youth, ...okay, and just what was the Hitler Youth,... a bunch of  boy scouts escorting little old ladys across busy streets ?????? You know what they were. And Ratzinger served in some military unit, however he never fired a gun in the direction of the enemy....us; he had an infected fingernail. Please, .....we have nothing of his nazi history, he erased it all. Why did he and his brother feel they had to do that, what were they afarid of, what was in those records they did not want anyone to know.

The only information we have on the guy is what HE has written himself; so what 'truth' do you want. He wrote his own 'truth'.

Now, if the nazis were so 'right' in what they did, why is it that virtually everyone who was a nazi denies the fact? I mean, why deny anything when you are so damn sure right in your deeds and spirit. Ratzinger hides it all, won't talk about it, destroys any and every record of accountability. Oh hell....I give up.

No, I didn't grow up in Nazi Germany, and I agree, our environment does indeed form our opinions, but there were some who did not choose the nazi way, some at the cost of their lives, like Ms Scholl and her White Rose cohorts in crime. Now, my mother came here just before the nazis shut down the borders, and she had nothing, they just literarly pinned her tickets to her coat, and that was it. Later, she took in a few coming here, a sort of half way house type thing, I saw these familys with their numbers tatooed on their arms, listened to their stories, they had some family that they never saw, some with only one child of three that made it out; I ate Liverwurst till it was coming out my ears. Truthfully, I didn't understand a thing, not knowing , too young, saw a kid shell shocked they told me, later to find he had been bashed in the head by some god-fearing nazi with a rifkle butt; later as years went bye, I followed up on some of these, and better understood what they went through, but always left wondering ...how...could any of this happen, and I made myself a student of sorts, collected what info I could, I have two of the three text books (out of print) which translates, with no agendas by the way, of the documents, speeches, and just, all in all, what was going on.

You want me to provide you with documentation?  Truth????You don't deserve any of that consideration. You are nothing compared to these people, deserving of nothing.

I joined the YMHA, with my friends, I was brought up Catholic; the rule was, you had to be examed by the Rabbi, I was, he was amazed at to how come I was circumcized, I though every guy was, but no. This Rabbi had gotten out from Germany, ancient as the hills was he. He asked, if any of my brothers looked like me; no, I was the only one; then he relates how Hitler gave orders to confiscate ALL hospital records, anyone who was circumcised was arrested. But I'm Catholic I replied, the old man touched my shoulder and said, you would not have enjoyed those 'camps'. I would be taken, irregardless, and my brothers not. And he told other stories.

As far as Ms Scholl, .... she would have nothing to say about Ratzinger......the nazis murdered her.....and her cohorts in crime.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/22/2007 4:49:03 PM)

Yeah, it happens, but I wonder why Protestants, especially from denominations like Anglican/Episcopalian, etc., even bother to convert to Catholicism.  Converting to Islam, OK, that's a big fucking step.  But Protestant to Catholic?  That's like "Help, I won't find spiritual fulfillment unless I accept more arbitrary rules!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Isn't the Anglican church pretty much like the Roman Catholic Church (with the exception of that pesky divorce rule?)




dragone -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/22/2007 4:55:38 PM)

No, I did not present the images, the image was already there, implanted, not by my doing, but by the nazis themselves, so Level drew upon his knowlege of what he already knows and expanded the image. I talked, and called it as I percieved it to be. Just as a photographer who views the landscape, which has already been there and exists with no input of the photographer whatsoever. I framed nothing, Level on his own, framed his mental picture then acused me. Like you are.

What you and Level are doing, is disavowing any responsibility for your own thoughts on the matter, and have pushed it outside of yourselves, displacing it upon me. I simply will not accept that therory, nor accept that responsibility for your thoughts.

The landscape is there, I merely addressed the landscape, as it was, and is, you both took your own picture.

Did you guys use Kodak iso 64 or was it 69 on that.




dragone -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/22/2007 5:04:05 PM)

Very good point, however, Blair by so doing, legitimizes Ratzinger's Catholic church, makes it all official. Then will come Ratzinger's proclamations, and the press releases on various social subjects, thereby formulating the belief system of the populace. It appears very suttle, and not at all subversive in any way.

Ratzinger is haunted by the nazi label, even the finger infection BS does not sail. He lacks solid credibility.....and Blair will give him that credibility. People will overlook the nazi label, forget about it all, and Ratzinger's credibility will be established.

DAMN IT ALL TO HELL, I ordered ham & Cheese, I got balogna...er I mean baloney. Damn it all to hell. LOL 




RCdc -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 3:08:47 AM)

I really fail to see why Blair converting to anything is even news. The man has become a joke here in the UK and seen as nothing more than Bush's beyatch by the rest of the world. I did a quick poll among the people I work with with this morning, and out of the eight people I asked, exactly eight couldn't care less (OK, not exactly a Gallup poll, but still, 8 for 8 is fairly conclusive).

As for the Catholic Church, I'm not going to get started as it's one of those subjects that I can be quite bullish about, and usually end up causing all kinds of offence [;)], but I will just say that I always find it amazing that a religion that supposedly worships a female figurehead (Mary) appears to have such a loathing of women (.the.dark. will tell me off now for generalising, as she is far more knowledgable on the subject of religion that I am [:D]).

As for Blair, I can imagine it will be difficult for him to submit to any God, as he already seems to consider himself to be the Supreme Being, but there you go........

Darcy




dragone -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 10:22:27 AM)

Hello Darcyand the dark; VERY GOOD POINT.....why would anyone care, since he (Blair) is percieved by the rest of the World as Bush's Lackey.  Now, this conversion makes news, why? I'm guessing, because, the Pope, being a former nazi, and the Bush family, having a history of nazi affiliation; and that the US postures itself as a 'christian' country, believing in a 'christain god'; would tend to cause some speculation. Officially, the US confirms a separation of State and Church; however, the Christian coalition carries a tremendous amount of infulence on the citizens. The Christian groups are broke up in a myraid of factions, none having the power, resources nor the wealth as the catholic church. Yes, the Baptists are very rich, as are the Mormons; but none carry the prestige of the church in Rome. None are with the ritual base as that of Rome. The catholic church supported the nazi regime; Pope Pius X11 was the most Fascist of recent church history.

Now, to explain why I focus the Pope a nazi before I get hammered, 'that he was only a 'child' and had no choice' ....people.

It is the label...nazi....that draws to the mind, the images of history, and any association taints the individual with a perception of his/her values and character. Vanessa Redgrave is one example. Most people do not know the Bush history, about Preston Bush, and Old Lady Bab's family affiliation with the nazi regime, and would it all be rather forgotten, as an era gone bye. When the Master Bush sr. was running for president, publically a guy by the name of 'David Duke' ( I'm not quite sure of the name)...anyhow, he publicily announced his support of Bush sr. and offered himself as choice for VP. This was the news media hot topic of the time. This Duke, is a stanuch republican, and...leader of the American Nazi Party.  Yes, we do have, an officially licensed, American Nazi Party. The Communist party has been outlawed by the US government for quite some time, but never has the Nazi party.

Arnold's father was a hard line brown shirt nazi; General of Generals Shwartzenkoff of Iraq One,- his father was a member of the Waffen SS, detached to the personal body guard staff to the furher himself. Okay, for any 'wolves' out there wanting a debate; goggle it yourself.

So, why does this Blair conversion thing carry any importance whatsoever? Well, use your imaginations; England, a power in the world, ties with the money structures of the Arabias, Lackey of the US Bush government; the world economic conditions, the tower in Bahai, Haliburton, oil, Iraq, Iran. Just use your imaginations.

Know, that, a war is fought not only to gain real estate, resouces; wealth, but also for the minds and hearts of the people. The catholic church 'owns' it's subjects from the cradle to the grave and beyond. The catholic church is more and deeper than a religion; it is a philosophy.

It is the wise puppetmaster that gives his subjects the illusion of Freewill.




luckydog1 -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 12:10:36 PM)

I wish I had time to fully answer Dragone and his nonsense, maybe I will have time this evening.  Short note, the Communist Party is NOT and has NEVER been outlawed.  CPUSA is up and running.  Here is thier website http://cpusa.org/   So much for Dragones claims of truth and accuracy.  About half of what  he says is either false or disorted to a riduculous level.





popeye1250 -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 12:51:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah, it happens, but I wonder why Protestants, especially from denominations like Anglican/Episcopalian, etc., even bother to convert to Catholicism.  Converting to Islam, OK, that's a big fucking step.  But Protestant to Catholic?  That's like "Help, I won't find spiritual fulfillment unless I accept more arbitrary rules!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Isn't the Anglican church pretty much like the Roman Catholic Church (with the exception of that pesky divorce rule?)



L&M, true, there's not a lot of difference there.
All the "Protestant" religions evolved from the RCC. (Roman Catholic Church)
Just more rules and the pope.
Funny, people use the term "Protestant" for any religion that is Christian but not Catholic.
I think the Protestant Reformation only includes Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists (from Anglican), Lutherins, (The origional) Episcopal and one or two others. (Calvinists?)
All are sects that evolved from the RCC or "re-formed" into other religions by "Protesting" the teachings of the RCC and the pope.
Baptists and Mormons are not "Protestants" because they were never a part of the RCC and wearn't involved in the Protestant Reformation.
The Mormons (L.D.S.) are a fairly modern religion that was formed well after the Protestant Reformation and the Baptist movement actually *pre-dates* the RCC.
And the "Evangelical" churches like the Baptists and Mormons are "stand alone" religions as well but are sometimes mislabeled as "Protestant."
Funny, in the 4th grade they spent a lot of time during history lessons with us on the Protestant Reformation for some reason and this is what I can still remember from it.
If I'm mistaken on any of the above please let me know.




Marc2b -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 1:54:20 PM)

This whole discussion is pointless. Everybody knows that the new Pope used to be the evil emperor from Star Wars!

http://kazimskorner.blogspot.com/2005/04/separated-at-birth.html




popeye1250 -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 2:25:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

This whole discussion is pointless. Everybody knows that the new Pope used to be the evil emperor from Star Wars!

http://kazimskorner.blogspot.com/2005/04/separated-at-birth.html


I think it's time for another "Italian" pope after this guy.
Someone like say........ "Pope Nunzio" (who will break your fuckin legs!)
Or maybe "Pope Vincent" ("Vinny the Animal")




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 2:26:01 PM)

I am glad I was raised a Methodist.




MasterRobsalayna -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 2:45:28 PM)

Darcy - as a cradle catholic (no longer practicing) alayna can assure you that no true catholic "worships" saints or idols.  Veneration is encouraged however, worship is for God the Father, Son and Holy Spririt alone.  There are some people within the church who are in a movement to elevate Mary, Mother of Jesus, to an almost equal level (co-Redemptrix).  If that were to happen, alayna thinks that the church will have major problems.  But that's another story!

Be well from an "almost" Nun,




dragone -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 4:17:10 PM)

Opps, I'm wrong, I admit it, the Communist party has never been outlawed.  Sorry for the misinformation.

Now, disprove ALL else that I said...I invite the corrections; please, be my guest.




dragone -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 4:25:53 PM)

Don't Marc, don't belittle yourself with this. The discussion is indeed pointless, as there is nothing that can be done about anything. Popeye outlined the groups catagorically and their relationship to the Catholic church; that is the way it is. And all sects and groups are money makin' institutions, with the Catholics leading the pack. They are a legitimate religious sect, and their history is indeed filled to overflowing with all sorts of crimes.Where money is involved, then you have some serious happenings. But, then again, I could be wrong to being ridiculous there to.




Sinergy -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 4:28:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Isn't the Anglican church pretty much like the Roman Catholic Church (with the exception of that pesky divorce rule?)


It did not specifically get rid of divorce.

Technically, the difference when Henry VIII modified it was to change the titular head of the religion from the Papacy to the King of England.  Additionally, mass was stated in English, not Latin.

As the head of the religion, Henry VIII could sign off on his own divorce as not being in opposition with the Anglican church.

Sinergy




dragone -> RE: Tony Blair to convert to Catholicism (6/26/2007 4:59:22 PM)

Opps, and Double Opps; The dragone is wrong again, more misleading, and incorrect ridiculous information;

The US government outlawed the CPUSA with the Communist Control Act in 1954

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/communist_party_usa , this URL may not be correct, I'm prone to being mistaken on a lot of things, just goggle it for yourselves.

AS for me being accurate, sometimes I miss the mark, like any other human; we all cannot be a pefect lucky dog.




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