RE: hmmm

RE: hmmm (Full Version)

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 2:58:25 PM)
I’m not saying it’s behavior I would want to encourage or say is ideal- but I really don’t get the big problem. I certainly wouldn’t suggest someone I’ve been in a long term relationship with suddenly loses integrity to me because they lost track of time for 20 minutes. I wonder why he didn’t call? Perhaps something had gone wrong? And why did he choose to leave things on a bad note knowing he was leaving?

rollinonward05 -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 3:02:31 PM)
In many ( but not all) D/s or M/s relationships there are protocals and rules to follow. When not only you, but the Dominant/Master Mistress etc say they are going to do something then they should. If you are told by your Dom to call at a specific time then make sure you call. These are some ways trust is build in these ( and many other kinds ) of relationships. It is all part of learning to obey which is a big issue in these kind of relationships. So yes i see it as , If you really want a D/s or M/s relationship then work at it. That means watching the clock because more than once you will likely be told to get things done by certain times. Get used to it , if the lifestyle is serious to you. rollin

rollinonward05 -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 3:12:17 PM)
Your personal standards are the same as many of us curiously. I agree with your views of integrity in this case. rollin

rollinonward05 -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 3:17:12 PM)
I didn't get the idea that this was a long term relationship but I could be wrong. It sounded more like it was a relatively new relationship , one that trust and loyalty may be just being formed. Therefore rules and protocals should be observed and respected. No matter if it is 18 minutes late for a call or two hours. Just my opinion rollin P.S. I have been with Master for 6 years total but i still feel that when He tells me to call at a certain time it is my duty to do so. To obey him . Unless there is a emergency of some sort ( reading is not one)

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 3:43:09 PM)
I've never suggested it's not something she shouldn't care about, or OK that she forgot. I'm saying that making it a big deal is likely counterproductive in this instance. You want to change a behavior- focus on it, deal with it and move on. Instead we've got guilt on one side, annoyance on the other, and a business trip which has left everyone in a pretty upset state of mind to fester for at least a few days. Was all that really necessary? What about him saying "I was worried, I was disappointed, I feel like you don't honor me or the commitment we have together and you are now required to get an alarm to make sure you never miss an appointment. Understood?" The end, no big deal, problem solved, we can move on to good positive discussion. And I certainly think suggesting there's a lack of integrity here is a bit too much of a leap to make. Now, it seems as if this relationship has a few rough edges and issues to it besides this and those definitely do need to be deal with and compound this little problem. I just don't understand so much energy and importance being placed here- yes commitment and obedience and respect and integrity are all great things and you should hold to your agreements. No argument there. But to have to deal with guilt and festering ickiness for a few days over it? What sort of life is that? Do we really think people should have to live life like that? It's too short already.

texaskristy -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 4:02:26 PM)
Curiously seeking and Lucky Albatross, I agree that losing track of 20 minutes does not equal a complete loss of one's sense of integrity. However, every time we don't keep a commitment, we are chipping away at our honor and integrity as well as other people's trust in us. Doesn't everyone have that friend or family member that is nearly always late for everything? It is very disrespectful and how often do we adjust our behavior to acccomodate their lack of respect for our time? I know that I have a friend that I always plan half an hour extra for if we are meeting for anything. Barring emergencies outside our control, commitments made should be commitments kept. Curiously seeking, your point about respecting other people's time is a very valid one and no, I don't think you have set your personal standards too high. However, each person is different. I share your belief in this matter but it becomes obvious to me at least once or twice a week that others do not share the same standards.

restlessdreamer -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 4:03:15 PM)
That's exactly what I was trying to get across in my muddled way, LA. I don't know exactly what was said, but had he been clear in expressing his disappointment and future expectations - none of her reactions would be currently displayed. However, it sounds as though he muttered 'something about being second to reading' and thus, ellicited a negative reaction reinforced by his bringing up random displeasure of her performance that she was unaware of until that point. This thread interests me because I struggle with 'good' communication all the time. Hehe. I'm learning something here.

curiouslyseeking -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 4:09:29 PM)
*Greetings to all...* *I promise only one more posts (grin)....* *We could "Dr. Feel" this thing to death...with what should his response be.....what should her response be...oh it only hurts for a little while....dah dah dah dah...* *Simple truth: keep your word.* *She did not have to agree to the call in the first place..but once she did, she accepted the responsibility for it.* *Always,* *~curious~*

dawntreader -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 4:16:25 PM)
Next time i meet you for lunch, i am going to leave the day before and spend the night in the resturant parking lot!! i was born with a "late gene" and am hoping this works in my favor in regards to my own funeral![:D]

curiouslyseeking -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 4:19:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader Next time i meet you for lunch, i am going to leave the day before and spend the night in the resturant parking lot!! i was born with a "late gene" and am hoping this works in my favor in regards to my own funeral![:D] *Greetings dawntreader.....* *(BIG SMILE)...i practice what I preach...I was an hour early for our lunch date...* *hmmmm, was it excitement or personal integrity? (I'll never tell)* *be well,* *~curious~*

CreativeDominant -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 4:49:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: restlessdreamer I can only offer reflections of my own experiences here, but I feel I can relate in a small sense. I am one that strongly resents 'guilt trips'. If one cannot be clear with their feelings in regards to a relationship with me, or what is expected of me - then I resent the effort of a guilt trip as an attempt to pull emotions from me that I do not feel. I get the sense that this is what you are reacting to goodgirl. He has withdrawn affection without clearing defining his feelings on the matter. Instead of that clear communication, he is attempting to make you feel something you don't through what I see as underhanded means. Should you feel horrible for the late call? That is only for you to decide - it is my opinion that not even a Master can dictate your emotions. Either you do or you don't. Guilt trips just add to confusion and resentment. I would start there. Communicate. Don't lie to yourself so you are not lying to him and hopefully, that same expectation can be extended to him. Not picking on you, restless dreamer but it seems to me that he simply made a comment about her being late and what HE felt like due to her slip/mistake/forgetfulness. If she feels guilt about that, then that would indicate to me that she at least had some semblance of feeling that she HAD indeed made a mistake. I don't believe in guilt trips either. However, it seems like it can very easily be turned around so that any dominant's comment about a submissive's behavior is seen as a "guilt trip" when all it is may be a simple correction or it may indeed be a lecture. If the submissive does not being lectured, then she should state that at the beginning but she should also understand within herself that, for many adults (herself possibly included) that anyone correcting them and saying anything more than "you screwed up when you did this" can be interpreted as trying to lay a guilt trip. That isn't a fair way or even a reasonable way to view correction.

Stephann -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 5:17:56 PM)
LA, Just an observation; it's not likely the time issue was the real problem. It sounds like there's just a lot of other issues simmering under the surface, and that event was a catalyst. Remember, we're only getting half the story. Take care, pretty girl, Stephan

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 5:28:56 PM)
I completely agree, that's why I said this: Now, it seems as if this relationship has a few rough edges and issues to it besides this and those definitely do need to be deal with and compound this little problem.

restlessdreamer -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 5:33:39 PM)
Whoosh! Very true, CreativeDominant and thank you for pointing that out. I'm finding myself wishing that I knew the tone and manner in which he was speaking. Lol. Just to be able to make the judgement for myself. Far too much room for speculation as it is.

kyraofMists -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 5:53:01 PM)
This has happened to me once; I was given an instruction to call him within a specific amount of time to wake him up. I got busy working on a project for him and lost track of time. He called me 10 minutes after the time I was supposed to call. The first words out of my mouth were, "I apologize". He asked what I was apologizing for, then what I was doing to make me miss calling him and finally, what was I going to do to make sure it didn't happen again. Once I came up with the solution of setting the alarm on my phone, that was the end of it. My apology was accepted and we moved on. He would have been even more displeased with me if I had started dwelling on it and beating myself up over it. If I made a habit of doing this, then the consequences would increase. We would have a much bigger issue and he would be highly disappointed and annoyed. Knight's Kyra

goodgirl85 -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 6:33:54 PM)
Thank you to all who posted your thoughts and opinions. And just to clarify things, I knew of his disappointment of my last performance- or should I even say one certain aspect of my performance. I guess why I am wondering about this, is because yes he sounded a little upset about my being late. I call him at noon when I am avaibable because that is when his lunch break is. I have never before been late -except the once where my phone was three minutes slower than his. I remember that now, and do my best to accomadate him. To those of you who asked why didn't he call-- He was busy getting ready for his trip. If I don't call, then I miss out on my chance to talk to him for the day. He has other obligations (no he is NOT married) after work that need his attention and we don't normally talk after that noon time call. On days I am not available at noon he calls me on his way to work, between eight and eight thirty- If I have to be to work early Ill call him then. And to LA-- he didn't leave it at that. A little while after the phone call, after I posted this thread he sent me a message, saying that he loved the father's day present I got him, as he had just tried it out for the first time this morning. I took that as a simple, subtle way of saying that everything is ok, and he is not to mad. He doesn't like drama. He has a zero tolerance for it. Yes, this is a fairly new--arrangement. I am not falling in love with him, and he knows that what he have is basically what I want but add in all the lovey dovey stuff. The commincation is clear between us, believe it or not. I write him emails every night. He replies every morning. I write him my feelings, thoughts, and misgivings of our time together soon after coming home from him. This is only my second D/s relationship and so different from my previous one. I must admit, though, that this is more what I am looking for. He is more like the Dom I want to find and be with permanently. Sometimes I wonder if I will be able to stop myself from falling for him, or if I do find myself falling, will I be able to break it off before I get hurt? I am learning so much from him, and I think he from me as well. I have been in many new and interesting and exciting situations since I have met him.... Shrugs.... I don't know... Only time will tell I guess

KnightofMists -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 6:51:01 PM)
Should you feel bad.... Seems what people are missing here.. is.... why was she late? Without making comments specific to the OP's reasons for failing in the commitment. Anytime a person fails to fulfill a commitment one should first consider the reasons for the failure. Sometimes the failure of the commitment is unavoidable and therefore, it would be foolish to feel bad. Sometimes it's due to a pressing issue that is of more importance that had to be dealt with. However, to the OP.. in this situation.. you have to ask... was it reasonable to forget... Was "lost in reading" a Reasonable Justification for failling to call your Master. Was it a your activity of Reading more important than making the call you where suppose to make. Also, was there negative consequences of minor to major significance that your Master had to deal with. What value does your Master place on the failure of the commitment... and the list goes. From what I read.. it's rather clear to me that you should feel bad. I would also add.. that the Master's response to the failure is just as important to the failure itself. A one time failure (unless it has huge negative consequences due to the failure) likely doesn't need to be drawn out or made more than it is.. regardless of the reasons for the failure. So many want to punish or reprimand a person for the failure. But, to me this is a foolish was of energy. To me what is important is focusing on correcting the behavior (IF... it's behavior need correcting) that caused the failure in the first place. It maybe that punishment or reprimand is a way to go... but I would suggest one don't put the cart before the horse. Decide first what appears to be the most effective way to prevent the failure from occurring again. Don't just reach for the typical lazy approach... Guilt Trips, Punishments and Reprimands.

crouchingtigress -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 7:40:01 PM)
should you feel bad? not unless you are a masochist...ooops...let me rephrase. you have a relationship based on needs, these kind of relationships barely ever work because one always begins to need something more and the other person usually does not......just as you are finding out.....but relationships based on needs can be good too in that you can clearly define what is important to you, and well, insist upon it, after all you are simply mutually satisfying each other, and in my count he has dropped his end twice to your once. the snippy comment about last play time and the not calling you angel. in business this is called not having a meeting of the minds, both people are not getting their needs met. you should sit down with your dude and get some stuff on paper, one being called angel at least once in a conversation, two passive aggressive comments are not tolerated. to weird you say? well i think it is too, but the a relationship based purely on needs seems very obtuse to me, kind of like play acting, where as love relationships are also strange, but it is a more familiar oddness that every movie and love song is about....strange ideas of sacrifice, martyrdom, "you complete me" sort of codependent nonsense that does not make much sense either. in case i lost you ill get back to the point, your fellow and you are a marriage of convenience, and to that end you need only feel bad about his whole 18 minute bungle if it meets your needs....ie: .is convenient to/for you....

juliaoceania -> RE: hmmm (6/18/2007 10:12:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking *Greetings to all...* *I promise only one more posts (grin)....* *We could "Dr. Feel" this thing to death...with what should his response be.....what should her response be...oh it only hurts for a little while....dah dah dah dah...* *Simple truth: keep your word.* *She did not have to agree to the call in the first place..but once she did, she accepted the responsibility for it.* *Always,* *~curious~* I rarely am late for anything, it is a fetish with me and with my Daddy too. Being timely is very important to me, but even with my distaste of tardiness, I am not as harsh as this... people are human, they make mistakes, and they lose track of time. It is not something to make a habit out of, and I would mention it to her if I were the dom, but seriously there is only one purported perfect man that walked the face of the Earth... and they killed him[:D]. If it takes being perfect to have integrity I know no one that has any. As far as the dom's question about a book being more important than him... considering the context of the relationship, I would probably consider the book more important than someone that was just a pitstop in my life that I was not going to allow myself to become attached to.. not that it makes spacing off the phone call alright, just seems very logical to me that just about any god damned thing in my life would be more important than a temporary play partner.

NControlofU -> RE: hmmm (6/19/2007 12:08:15 AM)
It's not just you, curious. Its what I consider common courtesy to be on time for someone whos expecting you and who you made a commitmet to. Its not too much to expect someone to be on time for an appointment even if its a phone appointment. Time is important to some of us. I have better things to do than to sit around waiting for a phone call that was agreed to happen at a certain time and then doesn't. Not only that but I would be concerned that something bad had happened to her that was keeping her from being able to call when she was supposed to. It was nearly 20 minutes late. Thats a conciderable amount of time to me. That would concern me and I got enough stress in my life and I dont need to have more worrying about why she hasn't called. Its not just showing a lack of integrity for not doing what she said she would do. It also shows she doesn't consider him and his time important enough to make it a priority to her. quote: ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Someone losing track of time for 20 minutes does NOT equate to completely losing one's sense of integrity, cmon. *Greetings LA,* *I did not say "completely losing"...its a matter of integrity...* *Not doing something (especially with a specified time) goes to personal integrity in my opinion...the 20 minutes late is a justification,...* *....and I can even add disrespect for the other person's time...* *Perhaps, I set my personal standards too high...it's just me...* *~curious~*

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