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Difficult decisions... - 6/8/2007 8:43:59 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		How do you make a difficult decision that is life and death? Do you weigh in quality of life or length in days, weeks, months, or even years?

This morning after all the bs on the boards, I decided I needed to relax and destress, so I decided to meet a friend for lunch, as I was leaving my neighbor asked me if my cat was 'white and gray', of course he is; she told me he had been taken to the office because he was wandering looking lost. The office had called the SPCA because Ice Creame {my cat}, looked like he was in pain and they didn't know if he belonged to any one. When I got there, I looked at him, he looked sad and almost had this 'pleading' look on his face for me to take him home. When the guy fromt he SPCA got there, he looked at Ice and told me, he probably had feline leukimia, and that his meows were from pain. Ok, my heart broke at that moment.

My cat was 17 years old, I saw him a few days ago, and he looked fine, just a bit tired, I was taking him to the vet on Monday because the vet said his arthritis was probably acting up, so thats why he was laying down; guess he was wrong. Ice Creame was probably looking for a place to die, thats the best guess. So, I did probably the HARDEST thing I could do, was I decided to have him put to sleep. I signed the papers, and pet Ice Creame, told him I loved him and that he was a good cat; 17 years is a long freakin time. If I did not have him to to sleep, he would have been in a lot of pain, and it would have been worse in the long run, it didn't make my decision any easier though.

Then I had to tell my son tonight, THAT was a blast; at least he is not crying all the time, I cry at the drop of a hat, but he is asleep and 'ok' for now. He is still confused, but, he focuses that we still have another cat, Sugar, she is 14 years old and in better shape.

Has anyone else had to make a decision like that? Where you KNEW the right thing to do, yet it was the hardest emotionally.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/8/2007 8:49:08 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		As a nurse (most recently pediatric hospice) I work with people making these decisions (about human loved ones) all the time, though I personally have not had to make one.  I empathize with you; you already know you made the right decision since the kitty couldn't speak for himself and you knew he was in such pain and at that age...  So there is not much else I can say...

Big hugs



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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/8/2007 8:53:13 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

How do you make a difficult decision that is life and death? Do you weigh in quality of life or length in days, weeks, months, or even years?

This morning after all the bs on the boards, I decided I needed to relax and destress, so I decided to meet a friend for lunch, as I was leaving my neighbor asked me if my cat was 'white and gray', of course he is; she told me he had been taken to the office because he was wandering looking lost. The office had called the SPCA because Ice Creame {my cat}, looked like he was in pain and they didn't know if he belonged to any one. When I got there, I looked at him, he looked sad and almost had this 'pleading' look on his face for me to take him home. When the guy fromt he SPCA got there, he looked at Ice and told me, he probably had feline leukimia, and that his meows were from pain. Ok, my heart broke at that moment.

My cat was 17 years old, I saw him a few days ago, and he looked fine, just a bit tired, I was taking him to the vet on Monday because the vet said his arthritis was probably acting up, so thats why he was laying down; guess he was wrong. Ice Creame was probably looking for a place to die, thats the best guess. So, I did probably the HARDEST thing I could do, was I decided to have him put to sleep. I signed the papers, and pet Ice Creame, told him I loved him and that he was a good cat; 17 years is a long freakin time. If I did not have him to to sleep, he would have been in a lot of pain, and it would have been worse in the long run, it didn't make my decision any easier though.

Then I had to tell my son tonight, THAT was a blast; at least he is not crying all the time, I cry at the drop of a hat, but he is asleep and 'ok' for now. He is still confused, but, he focuses that we still have another cat, Sugar, she is 14 years old and in better shape.

Has anyone else had to make a decision like that? Where you KNEW the right thing to do, yet it was the hardest emotionally.

I'm so very sorry for your loss...i had a cat i had to put down...if a cat can be your soul mate this one was mine...i still grieve for her...again...i am truly sorry you are hurting....


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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 1:41:26 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Being an Animal lover I've had to make that call more then once.  No matter how many times you do it, it's always hard.  I've always thought of quality of life over simple living.  

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 3:57:13 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I think many will have been through that with a pet.

What I dont understand is why suffering people are not permitted the same mercy.

E

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 4:23:39 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		You gave your cat a long and wonderful life, and the opportunity to die peacefully and with dignity and without  pain.  There is no greater gift you can give to someone you love :) 

We've posted this here before, but it's always appropriate......

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.
You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.
Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together.... 

Author Unknown




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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 4:29:05 AM   
canupleaseme


Posts: 775
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline 		Im sorry for your loss too I hope you and your son feel better in time with it all.
Last year I had to make a really big decision when I foiiund out I was pregnant and it was a very messed up situation.  It took me six weeks to make my decision.  I can honestly say I spent the Six weeks in total of it in a right state I didnt leave the house for a while and was very confused.  I had to think realistically and I had to think about my quality of life at the time.  Being a single mum of one from my previous marragie I have no money hardly am working two part time jobs and studying at college.  The was no way the dad wanted to know anything about it and I just couldnt do it to myself , my um and the baby.  I can rarely afford to take my um out to nice places and I dont have much time for myself now or my um when work is really busy and there was noway I could do that on my own with another one to feed and cloth in the situation Im in. 
Having a termination was very difficult for me and I didnt take the decision lightly.  I made the right choice I have no regrets about what I did just that I was careless enough to let it happen in the first place.
It was a life chnging decision and it was one of the hardest Ive ever made and it took ages to be sure but I'm proud of myself for handling it all ok and doing what for me and my um is the right thing. 


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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 9:22:08 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		Thank you for the support ladies. I read my son the poem and he smiled. I will be answering his questions for a few days still. I didn't get along very well with Ice, but my son did, Ice Creame was a BIG protector of my son, he was my son's 'guard cat'; we have pictures and we have memories though, lots of memories.

My other 2 cats died on their own {22 and 18 years old respectivly}, they just went to sleep and didn't wake up; so this was a LOT harder, especially since my mother is in Texas right now, I'm glad I have a few close friends around and a few great people on the boards for support. One of my closest friends runs an animal rescue has had to have animals put to sleep before and she said it isn't easy regardless of how many times it needs to be done.

It reminded me that I needed to update my will and Living Will and that sorta stuff this month. LadyEllen makes a good point, suffering is universal; if only we were as compassionate towards others who are suffering.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 10:53:18 AM   
DommeChains


Posts: 415
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline 		I am so sorry for your loss.  I have been through this several times with my own fur kids and it is never easy.  The last two cats fought long and hard to live.  I think they did it because they knew I wasn't ready to say good bye to them.  Finally though, it was evident that they would be experiencing nothing but pain so I held them and stroked them and sang to them as the vet put them to sleep.  Each time everyone in the room had tears in their eyes.  It was the least I could do for them after all the many years of love and companionship they gave me.

I have posted before about caring for both of my parents while they were terminal.  Being the one to make the decision to abide by their wishes and offer nothing more than palliative care was incredibly difficult.  But I took comfort in knowing I was following their wishes, that they got to die in their own homes, in their beds at the time they were ready and they were pain free.

It is testimony to the depth of your affection that making this decision was not an easy one for you.  Letting go of a loved one maybe part of life but I would hope it would never be something easy to do.  I, for one, don't want my heart to ever be so hardened that I don't grieve.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 12:44:12 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		My condolences to you and especially your little one - kids have such a harder time with things like this.  i currently have a 17 yr old cat that has a major eye condition which is more than likely a tumor. Took her to the vet, got some antibiotic drops for her to ingest as well as for the eye, now we are at the point she has to see a specialist - vet opthomologist -   my daughters will be heartbroken when she dies, it's only a matter of time. 

i had to convince my ex master to put his lab down - poor dog was 24 yrs old and could barely walk - it took me days to gently convince him and i found  place that was willing to do it fairly inexpensively.  i was so close to that dog, i held his head and patted him till he passed but it was better then seeing him suffer and wimper every day, not even able to stand to go to the bathroom. 

DommeChains i had a similar expeience and wish i had handled it differently. Took care of my terminally ill mom (lung cancer) and she went through hell before she died - initial diagnosis was beyond stage 4 (from diagnosis till passing was 4 months total) - should have kept her home or in a hospice. The doc in the hospital, towards the end, wanted me to sign papers for a DNR which i had no problem with but i would not agree to denying her any nutrition, which i assume was to aide her along in the end stages of dying - to me it seemed cruel - how does anyone know how that is affecting a semi conscious dying person?  Dehydrating and starving to death sounded barbaric - so i declined. 

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 3:18:31 PM   
HutchGarahl


Posts: 562
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry for your loss....having had animals in one form or another all my life, yes....i've had to make that decision quite a few times. It's always a hard choice to make....but we all know when an animal suffers like that, it's best for them and that's how we have to look at it. Cause if we was hurting that bad, we wouldn't want to be kept on either.

So far with humans....my hardest decision came when I had to stand by and let the police cuff my son at 15 and take him to the nut house after he attempted suicide and failed. To see the look of fear in his eyes, the tears rolling and him begging my not to let them take him, was excrusiating.....now years later..he says he understands why I did it and thanks me.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 4:05:39 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		If it's any consolation, you had no choice. If he attempted suicide by law he had to be put in a psych ward for at least 72 hours... you could not  have prevented it - hope that helps a little

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 9:36:58 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		Thank you everyone for the support, it really helps. Knowing that others have had to make the same hard decision, lets me know I made the right decision.

I have not cried today, I am being strong for my munchkin; my son asked to keep Ice Creame's ID tag to 'remember him' {he even fell alseep with it in his hand an hour or so ago}; and tomorrow we are going to get a new one for Sugar [our cat that is still alive], she is going to be an indoor kitty for a while, since I was told she may miss her 'buddy,' she will end up sleeping with my son; they can both use the extra cuddles.

As far as people go, I am 26 and have a DNR, Living Will, etc done, I did it a few years when my chance of cancer was over 80% {after surgery we found it was about 95% if I had not had surgery last July}, my mother reminded me of that earlier when we spoke, she reminded me that we talked about, "quality of life or quanity in pain," to help me understand my decision, it helped but I still feel guilty for my decision, even though it was right. I can still hear Ice Creame's meows as they the handler took him   :(   if I had been with him when he went to sleep I would not have been able to function.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 9:38:49 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

let the police cuff my son


Cuffing him seems a tad excessive.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 9:48:45 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

let the police cuff my son


Cuffing him seems a tad excessive.


Police cuff people they take into custody.

The take dozens of people into custody every day, and some percentage of people are psychotic insane bad people who, if uncuffed, would try to kill said police officers.  If everybody is cuffed, all the police get to clock out at the end of the day and go home to their families.

I would suggest GotCuffedBoy not take it personally.

Sinergy


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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/9/2007 9:52:31 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

let the police cuff my son

Cuffing him seems a tad excessive.


Its for the officer's protection as well as for the person's own saftey. If they have tried to commit sucide, then they are evidently a risk, so having them cuffed is a saftey measure, its not personal.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/10/2007 12:28:15 AM   
HutchGarahl


Posts: 562
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline 		Normally i'd agree with ya, but the officer actually asked if I wanted to take him home or for him to take him. The law here is the same, not sure why he was giving me an option except maybe we knew each other....I dunno. Course, I could have chosen to turn away from my son...but I felt it better for him to see my face.

As for the cuffing being extreme...no. It was as much a protection for my son as well as the officer. Most people who try to commit suicide ain't exactly thinking straight. So if ya get someone trying to stop a person who's trying to kill themself, that person might go a bit nuts from someone trying to stop them, if that made any sense.

Rose dear....you did make the right choice. The pain is there for both you and the munchkin, but it will subside in time. Letting your other kitty stay inside and sleeping with the munchkin will help in dealing with the pain. Blessing to you both.

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/10/2007 5:16:35 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		i have been in your situation with close family members and i know the pain and guilt you are feeling.  It's so difficult to deal with people who are close to us, who need help desperately, but won't get it for themseles till a crises happens, it falls to our laps and we just do the best we can. i hope your son understands and sees the love you have for him and that he is doing well now. 

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/10/2007 5:21:58 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I think many will have been through that with a pet.

What I dont understand is why suffering people are not permitted the same mercy.

E


It's bad for the coffers of Big Pharma, the medical industry, and related businesses.

Also, the bible thumpers can't get past the "God's will" argument.

So millions of people will spend their last weeks of life in dire agony... without dignity... with billions of dollars of added burden to their families and the public debt.     

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RE: Difficult decisions... - 6/10/2007 5:31:43 AM   
KMsAngel


Posts: 17415
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline 		sanctity of life wins out over quality of life. blame the pope. or maybe we're so inculcated with the moral rationale of not murdering (well some of us are), and as they're still living, no matter the level of pain, its still murder to take someone's life.

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