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Looking for a Mentor - 6/7/2007 7:06:48 PM   
DarEch


Posts: 4
Joined: 6/7/2007
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I and My wife have been exploring a D/s lifestyle for sometime with varying success.  Having been married for 15 years, it is somewhat of a challenge to switch gears overnight.  I would sincerely like to have a conversation with a Dom who has successfully made the transition from a vanilla lifestyle to a D/s lifestyle.  I would appreciate speaking to someone who has a genuine interest in the lifestyle, experience with the different impliments of the trade (so to speak), and a desire to teach. 
Generally having more time then Me, My wife has been looking online for sometime, for someone who can answer our questions, provide suggestions and render advice, but seems to have a knack for finding Omnipotent, unquestionable, demanding Doms that have limited their skills to cybering.

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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/7/2007 7:45:45 PM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
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As posts like yours tend to put potential exploiters on high alert, please forgive me for re posting my standard reply. It's not just for you, but for others in the same position - hope it helps.

On BDSM lists, it is common to see Dominants who offer “training”. How can an inexperienced submissive differentiate between those who are genuine, and those who are sexual predators? Our view is this: The difference between a predator and a mentor relationship hinges upon two things: costs and power balance.

With a predator there are always costs – financial costs, sexual costs and/or emotional costs. On balance, the predator gains, the victim loses. There is always an inequality in the power structure. The predator is in charge, the victim does their bidding. In a mentor relationship the power is shared – there is negotiation, with both parties having an input. You could compare it to the difference between a lecture and a dialogue.

In a BDSM situation, a mentor is one who is equally willing to share their knowledge with Dom/mes or subs, males or females. This is because there is no ego investment involved. The mentor is a healthily self assured person who freely gives of their expertise, because their payback is the pleasure of seeing the other person grow. Of course it gives them a buzz – but the buzz for the learner is just as great, as they master the skill or concept.

If there is a power exchange it is only in the temporary context of the learning situation itself – it doesn’t extend beyond it, and it is the choice of the learner – they are not coerced into it. Similarly with any sexual content in the learning – the learner has asked to explore that aspect of their sexuality, it is not something that the mentor has determined they will do and forced upon them.

In a mentor relationship, both parties control the content of the learning experience. Both parties have input into what is taught and learned, but the focus is primarily on what the student wants to learn rather than on what the mentor wishes to teach. The mentor seeks feedback from the learner, listens to it and responds appropriately to it. The learner is free to accept the learning or to reject it – there are no punitive consequences for them. When a mentor challenges the learner to step out of their comfort zone, it is an invitation, not an order. The mentor seeks to draw out the learner’s potential, but the learner is free to walk away at any time.

Predators are usually skilled at emotional blackmail, threats and manipulation. They seek to keep the learner in the relationship, so they can continue to exploit them. The mentor, on the other hand, encourages and supports the learner’s growth, because it is not a threat to them. The mentor will encourage the student to end the lessons when they decide the student has learned what they contracted for; the learner will end the lessons with the predator when they realize they are being taken advantage of. The mentor and the learner are likely to remain friends; the learner and the predator usually part on bad terms. The predator tends to have a history of failed relationships, which have ended acrimoniously, because they blame others for their failings. The mentor tends to acknowledge their mistakes and admit their fallibility. They do not blame the student for failure to learn, but look to their own teaching methods and try to improve them.

The mentor is open to learning from the student, and does not set themselves up as someone whose credentials place them above criticism. Consequently, they are open with others about what they are doing, because they have nothing to hide. Where there is honesty and integrity there is no need for secrecy. As part of the learner’s development, the mentor encourages them to have contact with others in the community, they do not seek to isolate them from it. Like a good parent, the mentor’s ultimate aim is independence for the learner, not dependency.

Mentors do not usually advertise their services aggressively – people tend to seek them out rather than the other way around. They are regarded as trustworthy people within the community who have mastered certain desirable skills, and who have the willingness and ability to instruct others in attaining those skills themselves. In a mentor relationship, the mentor often works for free or at their own cost, giving of their own time and resources. They see it as giving back or passing on that which others have generously shared with them. A predator takes more than they give. Most often, they take money or power. But whatever they take, they do not give value for it. Their promises and what they actually deliver do not match up, or to put it another way, they do not walk their talk.

The acid test of whether someone has been dealing with a mentor or a predator is to ask them afterwards how they felt about it. A mentor will leave them enriched with a sense of pride and achievement; a predator will leave them feeling used and ripped off. A mentor will therefore be able to refer the learner to previous submissives, who will freely give favourable testimonials.

Our thoughts, with thanks to the mentors who have guided us in our own growth and development.


_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to DarEch)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/7/2007 7:48:08 PM   
ProfJoe


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/7/2007
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Your profile indicates you live in FL, which means you're likely within range of more than one larger metro area. My personal experience leads me to suggest that you attend local munches, and other lifestyle events with folk who live the way you are interested in doing; then, when you meet someone who has the experience you want, and the chemistry you'll both need, you can talk about mentoring. It's very hard online. Very hard. Not impossible, but ....


REspectfully, Prof Joe

(in reply to DarEch)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/7/2007 9:02:18 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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she could find a fem dom who could help her, they no lines are crossed and honestly i think if you look on the whole, fem doms tend to have a lot more real life skill as that most of us did Domming professional  and have had a plethora of experience in differing personality types, imaginative scenes,  as well as having to be acutely safety conscious or we would have ended up in jail.



_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to ProfJoe)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/7/2007 9:21:38 PM   
RealDom69


Posts: 64
Joined: 4/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

she could find a fem dom who could help her, they no lines are crossed and honestly i think if you look on the whole, fem doms tend to have a lot more real life skill as that most of us did Domming professional  and have had a plethora of experience in differing personality types, imaginative scenes,  as well as having to be acutely safety conscious or we would have ended up in jail.




I agree that A Fem Dom would be a good place to start, but be aware that Pro Doms are no better than the rest of us, I've met Pro Doms that I wouldn't trust with a dead cat, being professional does not mean Government accredited, nor does it mean they are experienced or even good at what they do, it just means they ask for money.

:))
Johnny eble

_____________________________

"Winners make things happen; losers let things happen."

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/8/2007 1:04:50 PM   
robertolapiedra


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Joined: 5/3/2007
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Hello DarEch. I took the liberty to check your profile for more information...

-"...would like, ideally, to have a R/T relationship with such a person, who would be actively involved in the training of My wife."

If I were you, I would keep "mentoring" and "training" aspects separate. In my opinion a mentor should not be involved in scening with the ones mentored.

Go to munches, visit clubs, post your questions (you may like someone's answers and that just may live near you, you never know). RL.

(in reply to DarEch)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/8/2007 1:52:29 PM   
DarEch


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Joined: 6/7/2007
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Very good advice from all of you, and thank you for responding.
LadyHeart.  The Mentor you describe is exactly what Iam looking for.  Just making My situation clear, I wish to learn 'the ropes" so to speak, so I can proceed with the kind of confidence that only an educated Dom can.  Hard to build trust with your sub if your fumbling around, unsure of what youre doing.  Beyond that, there are many psychological aspects that I would like to discuss with some one in a learned position.  And yes, I hope to gleen as much information from them as I can from such a Dom.  Ideally, a long lasting friendship, with the ongoing free exchange of philosophies, ideas and experiences.  Youre warning of the predator is well received and I thank you for including that message in your post.

Prof.Joe.  We have actually attended a Munch or two.  Not many, but a few.  It is actually on the list, to attend another, but in truth, it is sometimes difficult to fit into a hectic schedule with specifics that would really bore more then inform.  I agree finding someone online is hard, but when the internet is ever beckoning, its difficult to pass up the opportunity to searcch, and see what One can find.

Crouchingtigress and RealDom69.   Seeking a FemDom is really not an option.  I understand the reasoning, and I agree to an extent, but My wife isnt the slightest bit bi, or bi-curious, which I know doesnt mean that she and I couldnt learn about this lifestyle from a female, but she really prefers to be at the feet (figuratively and literally) of a Man.

Robertolapiedra.  A valid point I hadnt considered.  Though, it does seem less likely a Dom of any respectability would allow a novice to handle his girl for the purpose of learning.  Its a matter of seeing something, trying to apply what you have observed, being corrected along the way, and finally getting it right.  A difficult prospect to sell to a Dom where His girl is the test subject, I would believe.

You have all given Me much to think about, and I thank you for your input.







(in reply to DarEch)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/8/2007 7:04:57 PM   
KnightofMists


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I must say.. that from reading your comments that I see an issue that causes me concern.

It seems to me that think time is in short supply.  Regardless of what your time contraits are ... the effort invested into your relationship will affect the success you will achieve within it.  A mentor or better yet mentors can show you different things.. but.. in the end.. you need to invest time.... you need to stop using Time as an excuse not to to this or that.  You need to put your time where it matters most.  Your wife will see your time invest as a direct correlation to your commitment to the path you are trying to take.  It may not affect your relaitonship at this moment... but sooner or later... it will.  The longer walk this journey with this lack lustre time commitment.. the hard it will be when it does become an issue. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DarEch)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/8/2007 11:02:50 PM   
robertolapiedra


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Hello KnightofMists. Very astute point of view.

« À être vif, le lent t'échappe. Valéry».

- "When swift, what is slow escapes you" (rough translation).
RL.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/8/2007 11:11:28 PM   
Dane


Posts: 25
Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline
Hello DarEch,

It appears to me that you need the mentor, more than your submissive wife does; your wife needs you to take control. It does not deepen the dynamic between you and her if she's being dommed by another man. If you'd like to discuss the psychological issues of control and submission, I'd be happy to talk about that with you if you mail me at Dane in collarme. The physical issues of BDSM play and safety are better learned in person at a public gathering, once you find someone that you know is experienced, but again I think you yourself should be doing the playing with your wife. Once you find that you are feeling more sure of yourself and what you're about, it would be best for this transition for you, yourself, to take your wife into the depths of her submission.

take care,
Dane

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/9/2007 5:21:44 AM   
DarEch


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Knightofmists.  Ive read Your post a couple of times and while I disagree that "think time" has been short in supply, I will admit that My thinking hasnt been productive.  Basically, I think I formulated a plan on the way things SHOULD go... And have been trying to force facts and scenarios into that path.  I should have givien more thought into the actual path.  I dont know if that makes sense to anybody but Me, but Your point is well taken. 
About time:  Sometimes, saying One doesnt have as much time as he would wish isnt an excuse, its more of a reason.  Factually, if One has scarcely an hour out of each day to reasearch, read and explore, then its a fact that One has scarcely on hour a day to pursue education in this.  With the time I DO have, I have been reading as much as I can, online and in books we have purchased.  Very informative and helpful.

Dane.  Trust Me... I KNOW I need a Mentor more then she does. I have been slowly assuming control of different aspects.  My interest in having another Dom involved r/t is due to the fact that she wants to experience different types of play that I cant effectively learn about from a book, and she isnt real keen of having Me fumble around learning on her.  Cant blame her there.  Her point of view has been "If you want to learn how to do these things, then you should find someone to teach you"...  In My mind, it seemed like the only way to have someone teach Me, would be to involve them in our play.  Your suggestion to  visit a public gathering is a new perspective which sounds like the best path to follow. 

Thanks again for all the responses.  Each post has expanded My thinking.

(in reply to Dane)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/9/2007 6:12:13 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarEch

.. I KNOW I need a Mentor more then she does....


if you mean a Mentor in a formal/specific individual sense... then you underestimate yourself

If you mean that a Mentor in a informal/gobal sense... then you will be like many here.

I believe you are wasting valuable time thinking you need a specific individual to be a Mentor..... instead.. everyone has a possibility to mentor you in a moment or several moments.  Instead of focusing on finding a specific mentor... focusing on asking questions on what you want to learn... the mentors will come to the questions. As you see their answers and you just might make some friendships along the way.

quote:


I have been slowly assuming control of different aspects.


excellent... having a pace that works for the two of you and is substainable is an important foundation to growth in building a D/s relationship.

quote:


My interest in having another Dom involved r/t is due to the fact that she wants to experience different types of play that I cant effectively learn about from a book, and she isnt real keen of having Me fumble around learning on her.  Cant blame her there.  Her point of view has been "If you want to learn how to do these things, then you should find someone to teach you"


to a point you are correct.  But... Buyer Beware.  How do we know if a Surgeon knows his stuff when he cuts us open.  Me thinks it's that piece of paper he has on the wall from a organization that teaches him.   But how do you know if Wonder Dom is any good.  How are you going to know if He can teach you anything?  It is more than him having a great personality that you connect to.  Hell.... it might be that the person who's personality you don't like is the one that you can learn more from.

quote:



...  In My mind, it seemed like the only way to have someone teach Me, would be to involve them in our play.  Your suggestion to  visit a public gathering is a new perspective which sounds like the best path to follow. 


UM  a BIG NO...... all this does is set yourself up to be used. 

A few suggestions.... attending munches is great as has been suggested... but... more so... go to some play party events if possible. Also, attend one of the BDSM Conferences that occur.

You Don't need to include people in your play to learn.  Seriously... get this idea as far away from you mindset as possible!!!!

It is one thing to have a Demo moment... IE... someone shows you how to do needles on your girl.  But it's a very specific moment of teaching you how to do it.  Not to play while doing it. 

You are putting to much into this whole ideal of Mentor.  It's going to cause you more grief and wasted time than it will likely give you for benefits.  You underestimate yourself.  It is rather clear that your thoughtful and show budding intellect.  Trust yourself more!!  Both your girl and yourself deserve that!!!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DarEch)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/9/2007 7:27:18 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarEch
My interest in having another Dom involved r/t is due to the fact that she wants to experience different types of play that I cant effectively learn about from a book, and she isnt real keen of having Me fumble around learning on her.  Cant blame her there.  Her point of view has been "If you want to learn how to do these things, then you should find someone to teach you"...  In My mind, it seemed like the only way to have someone teach Me, would be to involve them in our play.


I would like to recommend that you do not involve someone else in your play, most especially the first time.  I am part of a poly family and he and alandra have been together for 20 years this month.  They learned the aspects of play together, they tried new things together, found the things they like and hate together.  The bond that they built in sharing these moments together is incredible to watch. 

Many of the things that we do touch the core of us and it can be a very primal and emotional reaction to do these things for the first time.  For myself, I had the option of playing with others before playing with him and I chose to wait to play with him to build that bond of him being the first.  It is a moment that you don't get back and a moment that you may cherish for the rest of your life even if it isn't such a great experience.

If you were not interested in doing these things as well, then I would not suggest this.  Since you are interested, it could work to strengthen your bond together.  In many ways the mental and emotional aspects of play are more important than the perfect technique.

Knight's kyra



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to DarEch)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/9/2007 9:15:14 AM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarEch
My interest in having another Dom involved r/t is due to the fact that she wants to experience different types of play that I cant effectively learn about from a book, and she isnt real keen of having Me fumble around learning on her. Cant blame her there. Her point of view has been "If you want to learn how to do these things, then you should find someone to teach you"... In My mind, it seemed like the only way to have someone teach Me, would be to involve them in our play.


I would like to recommend that you do not involve someone else in your play, most especially the first time. I am part of a poly family and he and alandra have been together for 20 years this month. They learned the aspects of play together, they tried new things together, found the things they like and hate together. The bond that they built in sharing these moments together is incredible to watch.


We've had a similar experience as stated above, in that we do our learning together. We've been to play parties and watched others, picked up ideas on the net, and gone to a couple of demos. The doms at play parties have been absolutely great about giving tips, and pointing out safety issues, but taking it slowly in our own way is working out perfectly. Yes, sometimes things don't go quite the way they do in books, but so far, we've had no problems at all.
One thing that stuck in my mind after a whip demo: the guy made it a point to remind us that these things (generally!) aren't rocket science. Sure, you can hurt someone with a whip. But if you take it slowly and pay attention, your chances of hurting someone in a way they don't like are really pretty small.
Keep reading. Pick up tips anywhere you find them. If you have the opportunity to watch someone else do what you're interested in, by all means, take it! And ask questions every chance you get. Don't pull out a knife and just start hacking away, keep it slow until you find out what you and yours like. Really, nobody else is going to be an expert on that except you.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/10/2007 2:38:30 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline
I agree with the other posters here! Finding a single mentor isn't the optimum ... because amongst other potential problems, You don't want to turn into a clone of Him. You need to find Your own style. I entirely understand Your hesitation to try some forms of play without YOU being trained ... but, while reading as much as You can is good, the best way is to get out and about, meet people, attend play parties, workshops, watch, discuss and learn from a variety of people. You will get a much more balanced view, and learn way more. There is no way I would have attempted some forms of play without attending the group that RealDom69 and his lovely lady (and yes, that is who they are in the pic!) started up and being given the chance to have techniques demonstrated by a range of people. In a group situation You are less likely to receive total bullshit as if someone starts spouting it, someone else will call them on it. And it is easier to sift through the advice and take on board what "fits" You. Their group was great as they initially ran extra nights midweek for less experienced people that weren't formal workshops, but more a chance to be newbies together and not so scared of being thought incompetent by experienced Dom/mes watching. They were there of course to help and advise but that wasn't as threatening as a big group. And later, when the community of people wanted it, they also ran extra nights that were formal workshops with handouts etc! My heartfelt thanks to them and I miss them now Master and I have moved interstate! *Waves*

I also agree that having mentors play with Your sub is generally not a good idea. For one thing, her trust will be transferred from You (where it belongs) to the mentor and that's not what should be happening. Watch, learn, maybe allow them to do a short demo ... then take over Yourself. For example, I showed an aspiring Dom how to wield a flogger by (a) having him watch Me flog My sub (b) showing Him a few strokes on His own sub (who was of different gender, height and build from Mine) then (c) giving Him the flogger and having Him wield it while I watched and coached and encouraged Him to get feedback from His sub as to how it felt. The same sort of approach would apply to other specific skills such as needleplay. An experienced Dominant can tell You all the hints and safety tips, You can watch them do their own sub, maybe allow them to put the first few needles into Your sub if that allays her fears that You might not "do it right". Then take over and do it Yourself under supervision. Learning that way is an awesome experience for the both of you!

Good luck! I admire Your sense of responsibility ... that's essential in a Dominant ... but do have some self-confidence! No one knows Your wife as well as You do!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to mbes)
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RE: Looking for a Mentor - 6/10/2007 2:42:40 AM   
MaamJay


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PS I forgot to mention that she can learn a lot too by chatting to other subs ... as You can! Don't be limited in the people You learn from. Everything I know about CBT I learned from someone wonderful gay guys who attend the group regularly. What they know how to do with a boy's equipment can make your eyes water! So don't write off advice just because it comes from people with a different D/s "label" or sexual orientation. A Lesbian Domme may be a source of some wonderful ideas for things to do with Your wife!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to MaamJay)
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