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ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 6:27:24 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		This is a spin off from my thread in the Mistress section.

Whilst discussing gentlemanly conduct towards ladies, it became apparent that many men have been discouraged from gentlemanly behaviour, because of adverse reactions from ladies, who dont seem to like it for some reason.

So, what I'd like to ask is, why do some ladies not like men acting in this way towards them?

NB - we're talking here about everyday interactions in normal life; opening doors, carrying bags, lighting cigarettes and such.

E

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 6:42:52 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Lady E,  from what I have seen and personally experienced living here in Canada, many women do get quite insulted when a man holds a door open for them and I have been the brunt of this on many ocassions. Yet if I light a woman's cigarette, they are gracious and say thank you, go figure! It is my belief that many women asuume that a polite gesture such as that is an insult to their sense of being equal and some do feel this is a demeaning action and not an act of common curtesy.
My parents raised me to be polite and curteous, which includes saying please and thanks and opening a door for any and all females. To this day I still do this yet I have recieved dirty looks and/or a rude comment as a result of this. I just sigh and and continue holding doors open and aletting the woman enter first, in my mind, this is simple being polite and respectful.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 6:47:24 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This is a spin off from my thread in the Mistress section.

Whilst discussing gentlemanly conduct towards ladies, it became apparent that many men have been discouraged from gentlemanly behaviour, because of adverse reactions from ladies, who dont seem to like it for some reason.

So, what I'd like to ask is, why do some ladies not like men acting in this way towards them?

NB - we're talking here about everyday interactions in normal life; opening doors, carrying bags, lighting cigarettes and such.

E

I was told once by a man that if he was to do those kinds of things; it would negate the dynamic.


Not something I agree with, but I have seen and heard many who pretty much say the same thing.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 6:57:56 AM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline 		Maybe I'm too much of a feminist, I don't know. But things like carrying bags, opening doors and such is something I consider courtesy more than gentlemanly behaviour. I open doors for complete strangers male or female if we are about to walk in at the same time. If I see someone on the bus who'd appreciate my seat more than me I offer it to them regardless of gender.If I happen to have my lighter out of my bag I light every cigarette in my vicinity if they need to be lit. I'd never be offended if someone would show me these kind gestures. But just like you I've noticed some individuals who consider them an insult. For me, I think those people are overthinking the gestures. To me, it has nothing to do with insinuating anything negative about that person's capabilities or old fashion gender roles, just kind gestures and courtesy. 

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:05:31 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I wont say it negates the dynamic as many of the things listed are things that a servant would do. These are things I have had to get past and be comfortable with regards to having a slave.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:12:06 AM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline 		In business situations, I work on the principle that the first one to the door, opens it and holds it. I do smile to myself a little at the men who get really flustered when I do that.
In social situations, I do like having doors held open for me, but so long as they aren't slammed in my face I have no objection either way.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:19:54 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This is a spin off from my thread in the Mistress section.

Whilst discussing gentlemanly conduct towards ladies, it became apparent that many men have been discouraged from gentlemanly behaviour, because of adverse reactions from ladies, who dont seem to like it for some reason.

So, what I'd like to ask is, why do some ladies not like men acting in this way towards them?

NB - we're talking here about everyday interactions in normal life; opening doors, carrying bags, lighting cigarettes and such.

E


I was taught by my parents...and believe it or not, in 6th grade, we spent a full year working on 'courteous/mannerly interactions between genders'...to be a gentleman.  I was taught that a gentleman does not hit a woman, that a gentleman opens doors, offers to carry her bags, takes her arm to help her up steps or out of a car, holds her chair for her in a restaurant, gives her the opportunity to speak, etc., etc..  I have done this all my life and had it thrown back in my face on occasion, especially during the 70's.  I was told everything from "I don't need you to do any of that for me, I can do it myself" to "so-called gentlemanly behavior is just another way for male chauvinists like you to hold women down."
It got wearisome and so for awhile, while I did not treat women badly, I did try to gauge beforehand what their reaction might be to me exerting this type of behavior.  That got wearisome too, even more so.  I finally decided I would be what was most comfortable for me, with acceptable...to me...modifications as necessary.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:21:55 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Depends on what they consider gentlemanly.  I don't want someone swooping in to defend my honor- male or female.

I can respect and admire someone's intentions, and would never discourage good manners on any level to anyone.  But someone reinforcing gender stereotypes out of blindness?  That tends to irk me.

I don't envy males, specially sub males.  They have the tough side of it for sure.  I also think a chunk of it has to do with parenting problems and not being taught the basic foundations at home.  But when a person rejects someones good intentions, it's almost always either because the person really has overstepped, or because she's really not interested and doesn't want to give an impression otherwise.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:25:38 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This is a spin off from my thread in the Mistress section.

Whilst discussing gentlemanly conduct towards ladies, it became apparent that many men have been discouraged from gentlemanly behaviour, because of adverse reactions from ladies, who dont seem to like it for some reason.

So, what I'd like to ask is, why do some ladies not like men acting in this way towards them?

NB - we're talking here about everyday interactions in normal life; opening doors, carrying bags, lighting cigarettes and such.

E


To me its not something I expect from men, but rather from any polite person.  If i'm in front of someone then i'll hold the door open for them and i'd expect the same. 

C~


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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:29:56 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		I dunno i think it depends, opening doors and stuff is fine (though we used to have a guy who would run out of the room to open the door and would hold it open till all the women had gone that used to wind me up). I dont expect it though, its a nice surprise like if a man pays for dinner but i would never go in with that assumption.
I always remember someone saying they were on a traina dn a woman in a busniss suit tutted as a man took the last suit, and she thought to herself, and i bet she is the kind of woman who bitches about equal pay. personally im not at  all feminist most of the time, of course i believe in equality but i do like it when men are gentlemanly. thing is we cant really demand both, opening the door for someone is just polite i think though.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:37:48 AM   
Kurzon


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
But someone reinforcing gender stereotypes out of blindness?  That tends to irk me.




could I get you to give an example of what you mean?

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:41:47 AM   
nearnyccouple


Posts: 70
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		i view it as polite behavior. my Master always opens the door for me.  he was raised that way.  i have also taught my 2 um's to do the same.  it is just common courtesy. if i am in front of someone be they male or female, i hold the door open for them as well.
cassie

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:46:09 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Which is the manner that my parents had taught me. In noo way am I demeaning or devaluing the equality of the person, my sole intent is to extend a bit of politeness and also being a gentleman by holding a door open for a woman, and also for another man depending on the cicumstance and I apply this principle in all areas and not restricting it in the regular world .

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 6/7/2007 7:48:55 AM >

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 7:51:32 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen


So, what I'd like to ask is, why do some ladies not like men acting in this way towards them?



I personally do like it.  I like having a door held for me and walking in first. It feels like he's seeing to my whereabouts somehow. I especially love when a man walks me to the car door and opens it for me.  I feel like I'm being delivered and tucked in as the door closes with me inside--makes me feel my femininity.  It is because of this, that I can understand how some females would feel the polar opposite if they are feminist-minded.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 8:01:18 AM   
jaunty1


Posts: 102
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline 		If I get to a door first, I open it; considering the fact that melissa walks on my left and behind me, that is usually always.  When out in public and in private, I always stand when melissa does. In public, I hold the chair for her until she sits down; the same I would do for any lady. I always carry packages for her.
 
It matters very little to me if others see it as a loss of dynamic between us. I was raised to be courteous; some habits should never be broken.
 
Live well
 
Alex

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 8:25:08 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
So, what I'd like to ask is, why do some ladies not like men acting in this way towards them?


I expect it, I know its not very common, but I have lucked out as of late. I find it incredibly sexy for man to open doors, pull out my chair, etc for me. It makes a great impression, and 'later' he is more likely to get what he wants. {just kidding... maybe} It also puts me into that 'mind frame' that slaves talk about, where you have this tone or mood of being submissive and taken care of. Its very arounding and very submissive. Like I shared on the other thread, I have been with a few great Masters who were VERY much gentlemen. Once a lady experiences a gentleman, she doesn't want to go back.


When did being a Dominant Male mean that one stopped being a Gentleman?!

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 9:25:16 AM   
LadyTeazer


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		  "...once a lady experiences a gentleman, she doesn't want to go back."

AAAA-MEN to that, slaverosebeauty!!

I fear that chivalry is dead, and unfortunately, I can provide a much-too-long list of those rude, clueless jerks who have contributed to its untimely demise. 

When did being polite, courteous, well-mannered, and showing respect for others (regardless of age or gender) become a bad thing?  Did I miss the memo on that?  

As a woman, I  *expect*  doors to be opened for Me, chairs to be pulled out, to be helped on and off with My coat, to be offered his arm if the pavement is icy, for him to pick up the check, and to hear 'please', 'thank you', 'you're welcome', and 'excuse me' (not only said to Me, but to all others around us).   I am terribly disappointed often.  Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I am proud to be.  I do not think of Myself as a feminist, but I do believe that women are as capable as men (moreso in many areas!), should get equal pay for equal work, and should not be held back by a glass ceiling. Are being a woman, a Domme, and a sorta-feminist  mutually exclusive?  Not at all!!  

I have no idea why a woman would feel insulted at a man holding a door open for her.  'Of course' she can do it for herself, but being shown the respect and courtesy of having it done for you is NOT an insult or demeaning in any way!   It is a compliment, ya dumb bunny.  If you feel otherwise, don't go off on the poor guy for being respectful, just smile politely and say 'thank you'. 

Makes Me wonder.... if you think a man is insulting you and demeaning you for holding a door open, how do you feel when a man (a total stranger)  says "What time is it, bitch?", or "Hey, ho.  Where is the Preston Building?".   Are those remarks acceptable and OK with you???  

Give Me a gentleman every time, please.  Thank you.




LadyTeazer ---- definitely a WOW -- Wonderful Older Woman  

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 9:30:43 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think when women have a negative reaction to a man being gentlemanly it is because they are forcing it on them, just like some people don't hug to show affection but as a way of touching someone.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 9:38:41 AM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		It all depends on the individual. The one rather memorable moment in my case was the time I held a door open for a woman, not even considering it was a woman I was holding the door open for; she was just another human being to me, and as she went past she muttered "Chauvinist Pig" at me.

Most of the time that doesn't happen, but some people are just time bombs.

$0.02,

Dauric.

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RE: ladies..... and gentlemen (2) - 6/7/2007 10:11:24 AM   
Kurzon


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dauric

It all depends on the individual. The one rather memorable moment in my case was the time I held a door open for a woman, not even considering it was a woman I was holding the door open for; she was just another human being to me, and as she went past she muttered "Chauvinist Pig" at me.

Most of the time that doesn't happen, but some people are just time bombs.

$0.02,

Dauric.


In my opinion such women are what I call "man haters" and it would not matter what you did - hold the door open and you are a pig, do not hold it open and you are an ass.
The sad thing is that this too is learned behavior, and is propagated be the mass media.Unfortunately bad ideas tend to linger forever(re: nazism, racism, chauvinism, feminism, new dealism, communism...ect.) and that is generally because a small core group of people gain some sort of limited power, and great satisfaction creating strife in the world.


I will one day learn to spell


< Message edited by Kurzon -- 6/7/2007 10:14:01 AM >

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