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What is legal and what is not? - 6/6/2007 6:51:39 PM   
MrsDiablo


Posts: 10
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		I am not quite sure where this topic would fit in.  But, it was interesting one that was brought up by a old submissive of mine.  In my state being a Pro Domme is borderline legal.  There are certing guide lines, I guess you could say must be followed.  You maynot perform any type of sexually simulated act, cbt, face sitting, strap on play, and so forth, and the person may not be naked.  The questions is this, you go to a strip club, either full nude or just topless, and you get a lap dance, to me that is a simulated sexual act, and you are paying for it.  So, why is it, that being a Pro Domme is so fine line, and restrictive, and being a stripper is perfectly legal?  Just wondering everyone's thoughts on it. 
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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/6/2007 7:03:16 PM   
chicagochick


Posts: 27
Joined: 4/19/2007
Status: offline 		Well I think the answer is one that doesn't have much to do with the actual law. I would dare to say that this all comes down to selective enforcement and how far outside the mainstream you are. Strip clubs are not everyone's favorite but I think fly under the radar where as professional bdsm activities are a little further outside the comfort zone of a lot of people. I think for both situations it really depends on how much attention you draw to yourself. If a strip club is generating police calls every night over fights or drugs etc, it is going to get extra official involvement. Similarly, if a Pro Dom/Domme is out in the public eye (whether by choice or through no fault of their own) it is going to generate scrutiny. Unfortunately, there won't be as much protection and tolerance for bdsm as there is for strip clubs if the law decides to follow the statutes to the letter and really go after someone.

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/6/2007 7:05:13 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Because if strippers were illegal, 97% of politicians would be running a risk.

ProDommes, only 73%.

Yours,


benji

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/6/2007 8:13:45 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		Stippers do just that, they strip, they remove clothing, they don't have sexual contact with their patrons. Its teasing, its a fantasy, no sex invovled.

While with being a 'Pro' their IS contact and or one both partners may be without clothing, which I see the legal standpoint that its borderline prostitution, a very very fine line.

Someone goes to a strip club and they KNOW [in a reputable place] that NO sex is invovled, no sexual contact, no intercourse, etc. Its ALL teasing.

Someone goes to a Pro and their is a VERY good chance that someone is gonna be naked or partily and that sexual contact of some sort is going to happen.

I see the difference.

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/6/2007 9:04:29 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		In strip clubs the girl IS naked and she grinds her pussy on the guys hard cock through his pants. He's not allowed to touch her with his hands is all.  That to me is VERY sexual, not just teasing. She can press her tits in his face - contact too.

i don't really know what pro dommes do as i am not one nor have i ever been to one but i would think they would want to keep making money and watch what they do so that they stayed within the confines of the law.  Why ruin a good thing and risk loosing it?

< Message edited by velvetears -- 6/6/2007 9:05:32 PM >

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/7/2007 5:45:15 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hopefully I am attributing this to the correct person.
Guy Baldwin I believe is the one who said: "The less likely the act is to result in religiously sanctioned procreation the less likely the law is to protect it."

In Texas last I checked (I lived in the DFW area for 15 years until 2002) contact of the sort you mentoned has been used to prosecute strippers as prostitutes and revoke a club's SOB liscence. I would guess that casse law would make all the difference in different states. a couple unsuccessfull prosecutions and precident is set and the rules change, or a couple successfull prosecutions and the enforcement becomes more likely.


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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/7/2007 6:14:42 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		And the great whore debate rages on!! LOL

The more something is seen as morally wrong, the harsher the laws against it will be enforced.

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 6/7/2007 6:17:58 AM >

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/7/2007 12:24:07 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		By my definition of prostitution, both strippers and pro-dominas are prostitutes. Why one form is more or less regulated is a matter of chance...it depends on the location, and the perceived value in cracking down to the local elected officials...if they think they will get votes for closing down the strip joints...they will try. BDSM is an easy target that way, the majority of people think that the lifestyle is a little "sick" if not outright sinful, so it is easy to gerner votes/support by coming down on the local BDSM pros.
It also probably also has something to do with the fact that the strippers are playing a more traditionally "feminine role, being somewhat submissive, they are on display for male pleasure while the domina is not, she presents a somewhat threatening figure, playing a very non-feminine role.


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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/7/2007 11:20:01 PM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I've seen this question debated in many different groups over the years, and the answer is always the same: it depends....
It depends on whether there is an election coming and it might benefit someone politically; it depends upon what else has been in the news; it depends on which law enforcement officer comes across the potential crime; it depends upon so many variables that there is no absolute answer. You have to take your cue from the climate at the time - religious, political and financial. It's a huge grey area and is decided on a case by case basis.
:))
LH

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/7/2007 11:26:22 PM   
RealDom69


Posts: 64
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

I've seen this question debated in many different groups over the years, and the answer is always the same: it depends....
It depends on whether there is an election coming and it might benefit someone politically; it depends upon what else has been in the news; it depends on which law enforcement officer comes across the potential crime; it depends upon so many variables that there is no absolute answer. You have to take your cue from the climate at the time - religious, political and financial. It's a huge grey area and is decided on a case by case basis.
:))
LH


Well put my dear...
:))
Johnny Reble

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/8/2007 5:00:14 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think that sinceS/m activities are mostly viewed as abusive by the the general public and law makers since they don't draw the line regarding consent.  It's lumped together with assault/battery/ domestic abuse.  We all face the possibilty of arrest, politics and election years notwithstanding.

I don't automatically equate prostitution with professional domination.  I know ProDommes who have no sexual contact with clients, and are quite clear about this beforehand.  Oh, I'm sure that there are the ones that do, and this I equate with prostitution.  Granted, it's impossible to police sessions as to whether or not there is sexual contact, but I also think it's unfair to assume that there is or will be.

For some people, BDSM is all about sex.  For others, it's the head space that counts the most.  We are all sexual beings and to think that a ProDomme has no control of her impulses to not have sexual contact is an oxymoron.  After all, control is what it's all about, so why lump ProDommes together with a lower species (ie. animals) which are unable to control their sexual urges.  Or furthermore, assume that all of them are prostitutes.   I am not my sister's keeper, try to have an open mind and avoid snap judgements that may or may not have foundation and/or credibiliy to back up my opinions of others.

And what about the "john" who shells out the money, what do we call him?

LBO

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/8/2007 5:24:37 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne
And what about the "john" who shells out the money, what do we call him?

LBO


A good man, crafted in the image of God, led astray into sin by woman, of course.

Such is the basis of so much bullshit in the world.

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/8/2007 6:03:45 AM   
MasterManyfaces


Posts: 9
Joined: 10/16/2004
Status: offline 		A quick note. The main legal point as far as many states are concerned has nothing to do with nudity, but with assault and battery.  Because you are beating another person, you are committing battery, and if you call them "dirty little fucker" or some such it's assault and battery.  Some states have laws regarding consenual battery, others regard it as actual battery, and thus you can be arrested on a fairly serious charge.  Then there are the quasi-legal areas, where it is not legalized, but generally a blind eye is turned to it. I would suspect that this might be the case where you are concerned.

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/8/2007 6:46:51 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		At least in California, the S&M is spousal abuse is BS unless you have a really really bad lawyer.  They have prosecuted so many pro-dommes for doing the same thing but called it sex that they can't turn around and then say it is abuse.  Plus the fact that so many pay for this that if your lawyer can't get the whole thing thrown out he isn't worth the cheap suit he is wearing.

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/8/2007 7:06:25 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Here is the deal.  At the end of all of these discussions is the term of using common sense....If I meet someone off of this site or in my general walk through this world who I don't particularily know very well and I don't have a strong grasp on their psyche then when it comes down to "play time" since I have no idea of where their limitations lie I could cross them at any point.  And yes, there could be some sort of ramifications.

If I know someone fairly well...Where do my risks lie?  There is every probability that she is enjoying herself as much as I...So there should never be any type of "legal" complications.

I don't really dig strip clubs...I know they are all working themselves through medical school so there is very little reason for me to feel any type of remorse for their chosen occupation..I realize they are not looking for my pity...lol...There are established guidelines to strip cub etiquette, as mentioned above....So if a Pro Domme would take the same steps in investigating her clientele as any responsible lay person would in finding a partner to play with, in lieu of responding to a wad of cash, why would she ever have to worry?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 6/8/2007 7:27:56 AM >

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RE: What is legal and what is not? - 6/8/2007 7:08:36 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterManyfaces

...Some states have laws regarding consenual battery...


if You would be so kind as to share this information...which ones? 

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