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Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 7:17:38 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Not only is Bush not backing down from a proposed missile shield that has angered the Kremlin, but Bush also blasted the Russian government on Tuesday in Prague claiming "reforms that once promised to empower citizens have been derailed."

-------------------------

Bush: Russians have derailed reforms



By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer 4 minutes ago

President Bush risked further stoking a testy dispute with Russia over a new U.S. missile defense system on Tuesday, saying that Moscow has "derailed" once-promising democratic reforms.

In a speech celebrating democracy's progress around the globe — and calling out places where its reach is either incomplete or lacking — Bush said that free societies emerge "at different speeds in different places" and have to reflect local customs. But he said certain values are universal to

all democracies, and rapped several countries for not embracing them.

"In Russia, reforms that once promised to empower citizens have been derailed, with troubling implications for democratic development," Bush said, speaking at a democracy conference here organized by former dissidents.

The president asserted that this discussion of democratic backsliding in Russia under the leadership of President Vladimir Putin was just one part of a strong relationship. "America can maintain a friendship and push a nation toward democracy at the same time," Bush said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070605/ap_on_re_eu/bush

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 6/5/2007 7:18:50 AM >
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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 7:33:18 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		"not backing down"

He doesn't WANT Putin to back down, Bush WANTS Putin to rebuild the Russian military and become America's enemy.  Think how much MONEY they can make if that happens.

Bush is provoking the Russians on purpose knowing his base is stupid enough to see him as manly rather than a short sighted baffoon making America less safe and poorer every day.

Any chance we could load Bush and all his supporters BACK into Texas and just give the whole fucking mess back to Mexico?

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 10:31:27 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		It is quite clear that US policy is to provoke Russia. The US and the west promised Russia there would be no military installations built or placed in east Europe. The enlarging of NATO and US effforts to have installations in east Europe is a breaking of promises.

It isn't Russia that is rewriting agreements but the US so if anyone should back down it is the US and not Russia.

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 12:38:18 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

It is quite clear that US policy is to provoke Russia. The US and the west promised Russia there would be no military installations built or placed in east Europe. The enlarging of NATO and US effforts to have installations in east Europe is a breaking of promises.

It isn't Russia that is rewriting agreements but the US so if anyone should back down it is the US and not Russia.


Bush threw the ball back at Russia however. Bush said that Russia is welcome to send their generals and scientists to inspect the defense system and verify it isnt a threat.

Two things going on here:
1. Russia does not want NATO, the US, or the EU to expand into eastern Europe.
2. Putin's political popularity thrives on standing tall and firm against the west.

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 12:50:28 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		It is all irrelevent. The west gave its word that it wouldn't place any military installations in east Europe. Since it is the west is the one breaking its word (what's new about that), it is the west that is to blame for the current situation and not Russia.

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 2:05:59 PM   
die4urpleasure


Posts: 62
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

"not backing down"

He doesn't WANT Putin to back down, Bush WANTS Putin to rebuild the Russian military and become America's enemy.  Think how much MONEY they can make if that happens.

Bush is provoking the Russians on purpose knowing his base is stupid enough to see him as manly rather than a short sighted baffoon making America less safe and poorer every day.

Any chance we could load Bush and all his supporters BACK into Texas and just give the whole fucking mess back to Mexico?



Right on!    You saved my having to say that to this Bush-apologist. 

The Bush Administration and their oil and munitions buddies are the industrial military complex that former General WWII hero/President Eisenhower warned us about.  They want conflict and are always seeking ways to create it.  How else can they continue to justify planes, tanks, etc. that cost multi-millions each as rich war fatcats get richer and fatter?

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 3:35:27 PM   
swtnsparkling


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

Bush WANTS Putin to rebuild the Russian military and become America's enemy.  Think how much MONEY they can make if that happens.


All that to make money- give me a break  LOL

< Message edited by swtnsparkling -- 6/5/2007 3:38:18 PM >

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 3:38:58 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		swtnsparkling, tell us why SimplyMichael's opinion is ridiculous (I, for one, share it and I'm not alone)?

Could it be that it's so comfortable to be oblivious to reality? The 'head in the sand, arse in the air' syndrome?

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 3:56:14 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It is  ridiculous - Force Russia  to become our enemy again all to make money

What I see alot from posters who hate the man is all he wants all that is ever on his mind is "how can he make more money"- oh start a war to steal oil- yes that's a money bucket  now this?   more more more -money money money yum yum

I dislike the man very much.  I'm not defending him  I think he Sucks  as a president- but people voted for him Twice! LOL!!!  
He didn't get a vote from me either time. But  for christs sake  turn the  page

BTW I  don't have my head in the sand- nor arse in the air- I am just  a person who's life is  NOT spent  filled with  so much hatred that it soils my brain 
Thank You  and have a Great Tomorrow

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Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 3:59:15 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Russia needs the west for its money as much as the west needs Russia for its energy which is the only reason stopping a new cold war.

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 4:05:23 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Okkkkkay... I rest my case. It's not all about Baby Bush, you know. It's about America's foreign policy. Bush is but a little puppet in the hands of his advisers from the National Security Agency.

It's fine if you'd rather not know what's going on outside your immediate realm. But if you are going to make a comment in an informed discussion about current geopolitical events... at least, get some reading done? Or else, even better: sit back quietly and enjoy?



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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 4:24:17 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I see you have taken  the time from your discussion too reply to me, and so graciously at that but,
all I  see typed is BLAH BLAH BLAH . 
Thank you for your effort though.

You needn't waste your time responding, really it's ok I do understand besides
I'm pretty sure it will say the same thing.
Take care


_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to kittinSol)
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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 4:57:28 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Not only is Bush not backing down from a proposed missile shield that has angered the Kremlin, but Bush also blasted the Russian government on Tuesday in Prague claiming "reforms that once promised to empower citizens have been derailed."

-------------------------

Bush: Russians have derailed reforms



By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer 4 minutes ago

President Bush risked further stoking a testy dispute with Russia over a new U.S. missile defense system on Tuesday, saying that Moscow has "derailed" once-promising democratic reforms.

In a speech celebrating democracy's progress around the globe — and calling out places where its reach is either incomplete or lacking — Bush said that free societies emerge "at different speeds in different places" and have to reflect local customs. But he said certain values are universal to

all democracies, and rapped several countries for not embracing them.

"In Russia, reforms that once promised to empower citizens have been derailed, with troubling implications for democratic development," Bush said, speaking at a democracy conference here organized by former dissidents.

The president asserted that this discussion of democratic backsliding in Russia under the leadership of President Vladimir Putin was just one part of a strong relationship. "America can maintain a friendship and push a nation toward democracy at the same time," Bush said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070605/ap_on_re_eu/bush


So?

Did you have a question...or a posit?

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/5/2007 6:19:45 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Oh, I don't ever waste my time responding, it's good for my brain to get it washed out on a regular basis. But you are perfectly right: a sterile debate is a boring thing for all to see, and therefore, I shan't talk about world politics to you again. It's obvious it isn't in your line of interests (I wonder what is?).



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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/6/2007 8:28:46 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

I see you have taken  the time from your discussion too reply to me, and so graciously at that but,
all I  see typed is BLAH BLAH BLAH . 


......anyone else reminded of the Gary Larsen cartoon about what dogs hear when we talk to them?

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/6/2007 1:06:21 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

It isn't Russia that is rewriting agreements but the US so if anyone should back down it is the US and not Russia.


well they piss on the constitution why would they treat anyone else any better?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/6/2007 2:43:59 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

quote:

Bush WANTS Putin to rebuild the Russian military and become America's enemy.  Think how much MONEY they can make if that happens.


All that to make money- give me a break  LOL


You have GOT to be kidding. You cannot be that naive.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/6/2007 5:43:12 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Here's some BLAH BLAH BLAH for you - From Dwight Eisenhower's farewell address.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Eisenhower%27s_farewell_address

quote:


Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.

Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual --is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.


I don't think the present MIC in the USA needs the good ol'  Red Menace anymore, to justify its present gluttony. The invisible, ubiquitous, formless, timeless terrorists are all the enemy it needs. And there's always the Yellow Peril. But I bet Russia's MIC could use a make work project right about now - a grand enemy, not a rag tag gang of rebels who won't stay dead. A grand enemy who, unlike the Yellow Peril, would never attack Russia anyway (but who might, and could... unless we get the latest in battlefield technology).

If the Russians are smart though, they will stay at home with their new guns and not actually have to use them - just sell last year's models to their client states so other people can consume the inventory (and be consumed by it).

Eisenhower knew the MIC (military-industrial complex) was an essential evil, hoping it would remain focussed on self defense. Once it starts to look outward, seeking to expand its markets, control over it is essentially lost.

All this chest thumping is just preparing the peasants for more sacrifices.


Z.








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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/6/2007 8:22:38 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I think these two were separated at birth, myself ... and I think in spite of their posturing, they are both getting what they want.

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RE: Bush not backing down to Putin - 6/6/2007 8:41:05 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

quote:

Bush WANTS Putin to rebuild the Russian military and become America's enemy.  Think how much MONEY they can make if that happens.


All that to make money- give me a break  LOL


You have GOT to be kidding. You cannot be that naive.


i dont think peole realize how "incredibly" much money is at stake!  (but only for a very few peole)


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 20
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