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Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 8:24:08 AM   
Level


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Status: offline 		MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 9:52 a.m. CT May 26, 2007

The American dream has always held that each generation will enjoy a higher standard of living than the previous one, and that is still true, as measured by household income.

But the generational gains are slowing, and the increased participation of women in the work force is the only thing keeping the dream alive, according to an analysis of Census data released Friday.

A generation ago, American men in their thirties had median annual incomes of about $40,000 compared with men of the same age who now make about $35,000 a year, adjusted for inflation. That’s a 12.5 percent drop between 1974 and 2004, according to the report from the Pew Charitable Trusts’ Economic Mobility Project.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18868904

< Message edited by Level -- 5/27/2007 8:25:06 AM >

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 9:08:54 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I was determined to "do better" then my parents. my dad and his dad worked themself to death. an early grave; each died at 42.  i told myself i would not do that to myself.

so far so good. im retired early- if i really want a widget i can get one.

However- being that i have 2 bros- they seem to think we genticically will pass at 42.

funny thing is my dad always knew he would die early, he told me he would. im the only one that heard him ---

if he was here today he would say=- hey ya were hadned lemons and made lemon ade.

he would also say good job on getting a good punch in- on fights i lost.

dad also said no one can ever take an education from you.   they can take ur car ur house....but not your smarts.....

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 9:49:14 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		A big part of it is that "labor" is being devalued by out of control "immigration."
It's not that "immigrants" are "doing the jobs Americans don't want to do", it's that they're "doing the jobs Americans can't afford to do."
Thirty years ago I was making $5.50 an hour loading/ unloading trucks.
Today people are making $8-$9 for similar labor?
That's MUCH less factoring in inflation!

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 9:50:43 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Some good points, popeye.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 9:57:42 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		In the not-too-distant future, self-surficient robotic workers will be available for most types of mundane tasks as well as some more complex ones.

The standard of living will sky rocket.

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 10:19:24 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		this is THE topic that rattles Americans:

we are the last generation that will live well.   thats why all the bickering and policitcs

i made more in 1981, then in 1999; in terms of real dollars.  no joke.

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 12:05:28 PM   
selfbnd411


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Status: offline 		Actually I read this article as well, and it goes on to say that part of the issue that that better educated women are squeezing men out.  Men tend to be competitive (often with an inflated and unjustified sense of self worth) so they job hop a lot, retarding their careers.  Also, men tend to go for instant gratification.  Fewer men go to college than women do, and women tend to earn higher grades.

I teach college, and frankly I agree with a lot of this.  The gender composition of my classes is usually 60%-70% female.  Women tend to take academics more seriously then men do, and they listen a whole lot better.  I've only had one female student who came in with a chip on her shoulder (my Dad calls it the "Teach me--I dare you!" mentality), versus relatively more males who suffer from that syndrome.

I don't think it's that men are less intelligent than women.  I actually prefer competitiveness--I want my students to listen to each other's arguments and challenge them when they disagree.  However, I think that many males do not respect education, learning, hard work, or deferred compensation.

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 12:57:18 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

I teach college, and frankly I agree with a lot of this.  The gender composition of my classes is usually 60%-70% female.  Women tend to take academics more seriously then men do, and they listen a whole lot better.


I would take into account your subject area.

In the Engineering school, females are a pretty low percent.  Lower still, in Math classes (many upper level Math classes entirely lack any females).

Personally, my approach to classes tends to be, "Show me logic that I haven't yet considered.  Show me arguments greater than my own.  Anything else- busy work, reading, or common arguments- are a waste of my time."

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 1:28:33 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		Shit and if you think that is bad look how much "BUYING POWER" you have now, that is from 2005 backwards to 1900 before the unconstitutional taxation laws and the bankers took over



In 1900, $1,000.00 from 2005 is worth:
$41.68 using the Consumer Price Index
$48.70 using the GDP deflator = worst case
$15.79 using the value of consumer bundle
$8.91 using the unskilled wage
$6.45 using the nominal GDP per capita
$1.66 using the relative share of GDP


You can add another 12% to the 1000 based on that article and to add insult to injury it now takes 2 to support a family!    So their 50 bucks, (worst case for the year 1900),  in 1900 is buying the same amount of goods as our 1000 is today, well 2005 that is.  (or is it)?

you could rent a whole freaking house for 25 bucks a month in 1900, the equivalent to 500 bucks in 2005, (again that is worst case for the year 1900),  and in 2005 or toady try to rent one for less than 1000!

So where have we gone? whats better?  That is aside from a certain "few" with extremely full pockets.

More like the american nightmare


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/27/2007 1:34:13 PM >

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 2:24:11 PM   
selfbnd411


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I would take into account your subject area.

In the Engineering school, females are a pretty low percent.  Lower still, in Math classes (many upper level Math classes entirely lack any females).

Personally, my approach to classes tends to be, "Show me logic that I haven't yet considered.  Show me arguments greater than my own.  Anything else- busy work, reading, or common arguments- are a waste of my time."


It's true that my subject area isn't math/science (mine is history).  That's acutally an advantage in this case, because it means I get students from every discipline.  All students are required to take at least one history course as part of the GE pattern.  I can count the number of history majors I've had on one hand.

Not to get philosophical, but nobody learns anything in college.  Not really.  Nobody will pay you a dime for facts--facts can be put in a book or on the internet and anyone can look them up at any time.  A historian starts with a problem--explain a certain event, such as a war.  A mathematician starts with a problem--explain a certain event, such as how much gasoline a vehicle will use if it travels 10 miles at 30 miles per hour and 10 miles at 60 mph.  An engineer starts with a problem--design a fuel pump for an aircraft.  They pay you to solve problems, and facts are just tools.  College teaches you how to tackle problems.

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 3:49:49 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 9:52 a.m. CT May 26, 2007

The American dream has always held that each generation will enjoy a higher standard of living than the previous one, and that is still true, as measured by household income.

But the generational gains are slowing, and the increased participation of women in the work force is the only thing keeping the dream alive, according to an analysis of Census data released Friday.

A generation ago, American men in their thirties had median annual incomes of about $40,000 compared with men of the same age who now make about $35,000 a year, adjusted for inflation. That’s a 12.5 percent drop between 1974 and 2004, according to the report from the Pew Charitable Trusts’ Economic Mobility Project.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18868904


I've never understood this whole "my generation isn't doing as well as (the previous)" argument.

First off, it negates the always transitional equation which includes the "now" versus "later".

Meaning...everyone always compares where they are...to where their parents are.  Add in 20 years and...historically...you're doing better (on a generational basis).

Secondly, if forgets the fact that "shit happens".  In 1981, at 22, I purchased my first home.  1,781 square feet.  $76,000.00 (for reference...in my locale, that home would now cost about $450,000.00).  For those that don't remember the early 80's, it was 17% interest, during the lull between when the baby boomers were born...and when they started fucking.

(Hence, we didn't need all that much room).

The house I bought was actually large (hard to imagine) for its time...but smaller than only 7 years previous (2,175 sf).

Today, the average home is 2,485 sf, and it often has air conditioning as an average input (not common then), at least two, and often 3 car garages....and it has in many cases, offices for his and her.

My first home had a carport.

The American home is over TWICE as large as homes worldwide, and while we're (only just now) becoming more energy conscious, putting more insulation in, building walls at 6 inches instead of the previously standard 4....

Today, thanks to WalMart, Target, and other more world price oriented providers, I can buy garden tools, barbeque's, TV's, carpets and even beer for about what I paid in 1981...and for about 1/3rd what I paid in real terms in the (1981) days of my first home.

Yes, gas costs more (but today cars get upwards of 45 miles per gallon, as opposed to the one I had then, that got 14), mortgages are 6%....not 17%.  And while my mortgage for $76,000.00 in 1981 is almost 1/8th my mortgage for $600,000.00 in 2007, I have a home that is slightly more than triple the size of the one I purchased in 1981, it's better constructed, it costs less to heat even at twice the cost of electricity as in 1981, my cable bill is easily 7 times that of 1981, but it includes broadband (which allows me to save $60.00 a month in long distance), 371 channels (as opposed to 19), my refridgerator holds twice as much (at 1/3rd the cost, both in purchase as well as in electricity) as the one that I thought was "the total shit" in 1981....and my monthly payment is just slightly more than twice that which I paid in 1981.

People spend a great deal of time overwhelming themselves on the arduous nature of how "everyone is doing better" or "previous generations did better"....than (you).

Your computers, for 1/3rd the cost are 3,000 times more efficient and more productive than (previous generations).

Stop and think.

You're doing better.

(Really you are...and if you aren't....it ain't "them"....it's you).

< Message edited by Griswold -- 5/27/2007 3:57:54 PM >

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 4:18:09 PM   
cyberdude611


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Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		If you are under 40, you are going to be hurting worse than your parents financially. If you are under 20, you are going to be screwed.

Between the baby boom generation retiring and soaking up any social security and medicare that is left and the dumbass politicians that want open borders....there won't be a dime left in the system by the time the youth reach retirement.

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 4:45:06 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

If you are under 40, you are going to be hurting worse than your parents financially. If you are under 20, you are going to be screwed.



(Only if you choose that).

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 5:31:20 PM   
Sinergy


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Status: offline 		My last year in computers I was not making that much less than my mother was making as a 40 year computer engineering professional.

My parents bought a house on 2/3 of an acre in an expensive part of Southern California for $23,000 in 1965.

They get sight unseen offers up to $3 million for the property today.

Is my generation doing better than theirs was?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 5:50:57 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

My last year in computers I was not making that much less than my mother was making as a 40 year computer engineering professional.

My parents bought a house on 2/3 of an acre in an expensive part of Southern California for $23,000 in 1965.

They get sight unseen offers up to $3 million for the property today.

Is my generation doing better than theirs was?

Sinergy


I can't answer that, nor can anyone else (but you)...however, there are many (in your neighborhood...and mine) that are doing multiples better than their parents...and on/with less education.

Timing is always a fabulous thing...so is (as will be with all generations, among every sub class/catagory) desire.

There will always be those that could have, that should have, those that might have...and those that did.

History has never had an argument with the wealthy (nor its ability to produce same)...nor with the greater citizens interest in remaining poor.  History is not likely to contradict that anytime soon.

Those that choose to do well...will.

Those that choose to do less well....will as well.


< Message edited by Griswold -- 5/27/2007 5:57:08 PM >

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 5:55:14 PM   
MsPoetress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I was determined to "do better" then my parents. my dad and his dad worked themself to death. an early grave; each died at 42.  i told myself i would not do that to myself.

so far so good. im retired early- if i really want a widget i can get one.

However- being that i have 2 bros- they seem to think we genticically will pass at 42.

funny thing is my dad always knew he would die early, he told me he would. im the only one that heard him ---

if he was here today he would say=- hey ya were hadned lemons and made lemon ade.

he would also say good job on getting a good punch in- on fights i lost.

dad also said no one can ever take an education from you.   they can take ur car ur house....but not your smarts.....


I like that.

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I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 6:02:19 PM   
Sinergy


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My point was less about how much money we are making or not making; she has a lot more education than I do, and more about the fact that her generation got to buy a huge house for $23,000 dollars and my generation is forced to pay $3M for the same house.

This while our incomes are generally comparable.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 6:21:32 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


My point was less about how much money we are making or not making; she has a lot more education than I do, and more about the fact that her generation got to buy a huge house for $23,000 dollars and my generation is forced to pay $3M for the same house.

This while our incomes are generally comparable.

Sinergy




Thats exactly right too!

couple of my favorite quotes aside from henry ford

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"All of the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." -- John Adams, Founding Father







_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 6:28:25 PM   
VeryMercurial


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


My point was less about how much money we are making or not making; she has a lot more education than I do, and more about the fact that her generation got to buy a huge house for $23,000 dollars and my generation is forced to pay $3M for the same house.

This while our incomes are generally comparable.

Sinergy


Excellent point! I am making more money than my mother did at my age.
When she bought our family home in the early 70's it cost around $30,000.
The same type of home that she bought, would easily cost me about $450,000.
So we are making more than our parents made, but inflation has pushed things like buying a home
out of the reach of most Americans.
You made less 30 years ago, but you could buy a house with what you made!
And many were even able to live on one salary.

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RE: Every generation does better? - 5/27/2007 6:29:17 PM   
Sinergy


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From my own perspective, I have never lived in a world that was not perceived as a limited system space that has to be conserved and preserved, and that all people have value.  This is the world I was raised in to.

My parents were not raised in this world, and as they got older and more intellectually lazy it became all about them and their generation, and screw everybody else.  The term one of our union offers uses is "Kicking the door shut on those who are to follow."

I would rather be in my world and worry about the kind of world I am leaving my children's children's children, rather than my parents who want to be the one who dies with the most toys.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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