Internal ~~ External bonding (Full Version)

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shyinini -> Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 8:55:24 AM)

I am hoping to be able to wrap my mind and words around this topic, without anyone flaming, using sarcasm, innuendos of judgment or generalizing.

It seems to me that there are 2 ways to go about a relationship ~~
1.) externally to internally
2.) internally to externally

If a D type knows who he is in regards to understanding who he is (as dominant, as man, and what his place is in life), what his needs and wants are and the type of s, he wants; he does not need to start externally with an s type.  He seeks to understand the s type internally ~~ her thoughts, feels, fears, insecurities, types of submissive she seeks.

Vice versa with an s type.

A little background.  I was taken externally...seduced in my mind and before I knew it I was kneeling and submitting to the one who really didn’t seem to know me as a woman.   Because of that relationship, we grew apart, I knew I would need to be understood as the submissive woman I am and then when I was understood internally, the external would fall into place.
That is what happened this time.

I feel less in need of control of circumstances (not a good way to put this but I am not able to clarify right now) because I know he understands all my ins and outs internally.
It amazes me what he seems to know about me without having me tell him every detail I think he might or should know. He just knows. 

Another way of presenting this internal vs external getting to know each other ~~ externally the bdsm part comes first, then the D/s part.  In other words the play then the relationship.  OR the relationship then the play.

Sir took 2 months of emailing with me in regards to who he was and who I was before he asked me if I was ready to meet him.  At that point he was ready, so was I?
We discussed our personalities, our strengths and weakness as individuals and as a D and s type, our lives, work, families, our past and our goals ~ not only as individuals but as a potential D/s partnership.
There has never been any electric intensity in our bdsm, but the passion has definitely been there.  The electricity is in our D/s dynamic.

I don’t want our relationship, as I have discussed to be the focal point of any following discussion.... this is who we are, this is not how others are.

But I would like to find out if the responder (you) prefers the internal or the external bonding before the other side.
What advantages did you find for yourself in externally bonding first?
What advantages did you find for yourself in internally bonding first?
Which was easiest and what was most difficult?

In summary, I'd like to say that because I had the opportunity to bond internally first, this relationship is based on a deeper relationship and not on some shallow relationship and intense play scenes.  It seems to me that integrating our sexual activity in bd and sm flowed naturally from knowing each other internally first.

Thoughts on your type of bonding?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 8:59:45 AM)

Well eventually both must occur and add up to good stuff for the relationship to work.  For me it's more a matter of what life hands you and deal with that.  If it's good, I keep going.  If it's bad, I withdraw and reevaluate.

Most people who do most of their courting online prefer to do the internal stuff first and then go through the external process.  This has its downfalls- great chemistry online doesn't always add up offline.  A lot of people THINK they have reached a certain level of intimacy, and then life knocks them down and they have to make up the steps they've skipped.




junecleaver -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 11:08:16 AM)

I've never really heard it put that way

My partner and I skipped a couple of steps in our relationship and it did come back to bite us.  I guess we got to know each other 'externally' before we really understood each other 'internally.'  It was difficult to backtrack and build those things after we had already spent so much time together, but totally worth it.



slaveish -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 11:22:25 AM)

A decade ago I met face-to-face with someone I knew from a vanilla chat. Man, was the chemistry good. I flew across the country to meet with him after a year online and on the phone.

Ugh. It was SO not good. Heartbreaking, in fact.

What LA said is (as is typical of her posts) very true. Great chemistry online definitely doesn't always add up to great chemistry in person. You just never know if it's going to work out, even if you know the person's thoughts, secrets, desires, and fears (speaking of meeting online).



darkinshadows -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 11:32:53 AM)

quote:

But I would like to find out if the responder (you) prefers the internal or the external bonding before the other side.

Any relationship that is to be healthy and productive needs (and deserves) both internal and external bonding - which one should come first depends entirely on the individuals involved.  Both have difficulties, both have advantages and these change from moment to moment, day to day and situation to situation.
 
Peace



mstrjx -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 12:09:10 PM)

Thoughts from a dominant male (although a quirky one at best):

I handle these two areas of bonding rather spontaneously.  I understand quite well the need to bond internally, which is the key to being able to lead that person on a satisfying journey.

The thing is that it doesn't take hardly any time at all to 'see' the inside.  Most people will tell you something of themselves, and usually a little is all it takes for me to see the 'whole', or as much of it that I need to see.

I'll say that this is not true of every individual, as there are some that are a little more complicated due to life circumstances or the like. 

In general, though, most people are alike in what I'll call the typical ways such that the adage (you've seen one, you've seen them all) applies.  When I make remarks that 'hit home' with someone that they didn't share outright, they think it's magic that I'm able to see their core.

(Shhhh.  Don't tell anyone, but they're just like their neighbor, and the neighbor before that, and the neighbor before that.  But if you want me to take credit, I will.)

Jeff



CuriousLord -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 12:10:58 PM)

If you're single and willing, and haven't already, I'd suggest starting an Internet relationship with someone from across the world and without means to physically see you for a while.

You really get to know someone well and come to understand dynamics of emotions that are usually overlooked with such an experience.  If you spend hours together a day- hours of talking (hopefully you click that well)- you really get to know a lot about the other person, and yourself.  Just make sure the guy's deep.

Anyhow, I would suggest it as a learning experience.



Quivver -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 2:24:59 PM)

I too have made the mistake of ~internal~ bonding thru a font and phone. 
Just as slaveish said when taken to a more personal level, Eeeeeks, bad move! 
On the other hand, I've been lucky too.
I think the trick is remembering external or internal is only half the picutre.
Keeping your head about you till the peices come together is the best route.




mythi -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 3:14:53 PM)

My perspective only here...but when something doesnt work out, I take it more personally if it moved external to internal.  Like, now that you got to know me I'm less attractive??  And even with the reverse of that I'll feel worse if it seemed to be going well physically, but then I found out something unacceptible (to me) about the person and have to call it off.  

In general it seems that if the internal parts bond well together, the rest can be more easily worked out.  Probably because I'm a lot less fussy about the external/physical aspects.

I'm also infinitely curious about human nature, and almost always interested in getting to know the juicy center of a person whether or not it ever goes further than that.  So for me, I always prefer to bond internally first. 



goodpet -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 4:11:37 PM)

I think since we knew each other for so long.. the respect, trust and a connection was there on a basic level but until he took me physically and made me submit.. did the relationship turn from friendship to D/s.. so i am not sure.. after the D/s started the bond deeped and developed into more.. and into love.



Celeste43 -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 5:07:35 PM)

We started online but not with a heavy d/s dynamic. Some cybersex to explore each other's interests but much more of the conversations were about who we were as people. I needed to get to know him just as much as he needed to know me.

But it doesn't matter if you start with deep meaningful conversations at a poem reading night and then progress to Star Wars movies or if you start with tennis dates and progress to the deep, meaningful conversations.

Eventually you need it all for a relationship to flourish.



mstrj69 -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 5:20:05 PM)

I am of the opinion that to develope the trust that is really needed in a relationship, you must start internally.  This does not have to be all online as I have met some in real life and still wanted to know more about her as a person than how she is in bed or in a scene.  Learning her as a person makes it easier when it comes to a scene in that I know how far to take it and when to stop and with this knowledge I can make it work for both of us,



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/23/2007 6:46:00 PM)

I'm tend to do both the external and internal at the same time, at least this is how my real time relationships have evoled. 

In terms of doing things long distance over the internet, I think slaveish summed it up that online chemistry (internals) don't mean the externals are going to work out or be there.

I had a conversation with somebody on the phone today, about how we are in a "friendship zone".  Her and I get along really great long distance and we have a lot in common.  While we are still going deeper with one another Internally, it's without all the romantic images and notions being stuck in my mind.  Internally we are getting to know each other on deeper levels, just without the romance and whips.  Personally, we'd need to met and see how well the chemistry is in person.  

It's Amazing that people, who have never met in person, can get caught up in role playing out or pretending there is physical chemistry.  How they have finally discovered and found THE ONE.  The internet is a great way to get to know somebody internally.  I think problem can occur from people placing a lot faith in the externals before meeting.

I've meet some really beautiful women in the real time and did not have overwhelming urges to Dom fuck them from hell and back again.  At the same time for whatever reason I have met some women just as beautiful and perhaps a little less attracted that I simply wanted to physically take over and over again.  Beautiful looks do not automatically equate to physical chemistry. I've gone out on dates with some beautiful women however if I did not feel the chemistry, Pfft.. why even bother trying to take things further.

I'm certain there are Dom/mes out there that met somebody really attractive and simply found the chemistry was not right.  I'm certain there are sub/slaves that have meet exceptionally attractive Dom/mes and the chemistry was not right.  Too many people get caught up in the misconception that beautiful looks automatically means chemistry.   An aspect people tend to over look when exchanging pictures over the internet.  Meh, Pffft...   There are deeper connections to be made on the external level besides pictures alone.  

Photos can be great for getting past the first level of chemistry, but you need to meet in person to explore the deeper levels of physical chemistry.



LadyPaige -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/24/2007 6:24:27 PM)

My own personal experience was that starting with the external made that the focus of the relationship, weather it was D/s or vanilla.  The only emotionally satisfying relationships I've had began with the internal, even if the external followed soon after.



JasonF -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/25/2007 7:03:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

I've never really heard it put that way

My partner and I skipped a couple of steps in our relationship and it did come back to bite us.  I guess we got to know each other 'externally' before we really understood each other 'internally.'  It was difficult to backtrack and build those things after we had already spent so much time together, but totally worth it.


Yeah, but part of what did it for us is the fact we're both stubborn. We fought to communicate with each other even when it was hard. Not everyone has that capability.



aldompdx -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/25/2007 11:36:20 PM)

Good issue...

The question is what constitutes intimacy, and what forms of intimacy do you want. Without completely being aware of it, most people have a greater need for emotional intimacy than physical intimacy. Homosapien primates are social animals. Our nature and evolution requires both physical and emotional intimacy.

There is another crucial component -- SELF intimacy. So long as one believes that another is their only source of fulfillment, they are dependent, like a child upon a parent. SELF intimacy is about opening and connecting with your own heart. Knowing that fulfillment -- love -- arises in the only place we have ever felt it, our own heart.



StellaByStarlite -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/26/2007 4:45:52 AM)

My relationship with The Mister is the closest, most intimate I've ever had, and I have to say that the intimacy developed entirely on it's own, with hardly any probing or deep conversations. Neither one of us actively "tried" to know each other internally, it just happened over the course of casual hanging out and meandering talks about Nothing in particular.

Sometimes I think that the best way to truely get to know somebody is to just relax and just be. If your interaction with a person is peaceful and serene, he or she could be right there, open.

Personally, I'd get a little stressed out if a man, dom or otherwise, wanted all those indepth discussions, but that's just my quirky, admittedly neurotic personality raising it's head. ;P




shyinini -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/26/2007 5:12:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Good issue...


The question is what constitutes intimacy, and what forms of intimacy do you want. Without completely being aware of it, most people have a greater need for emotional intimacy than physical intimacy. Homosapien primates are social animals. Our nature and evolution requires both physical and emotional intimacy.

There is another crucial component -- SELF intimacy. So long as one believes that another is their only source of fulfillment, they are dependent, like a child upon a parent. SELF intimacy is about opening and connecting with your own heart. Knowing that fulfillment -- love -- arises in the only place we have ever felt it, our own heart.

Sir, I do believe this is very important.  If one does not know themselves, there strengths, weaknesses and can take responsiblity for themselves without being dependent on someone else, they have achieved something alot of people just dont want to do...self actualize.
 
I will generalize, but I do believe it is true... alot of people want to be dependent in some form because they dont have to take responsbility for something they have done or said; or even for their past.
Taking a moment to think about this, even outside D/s and BDSM, it is true.
 
Intimacy with self is integrated with self identity and self awareness.  If one does particularly like themselves, being alone with ones self for hours  or days becomes an agony and defeat.
 
This was a great addition...Thank you for the input.




shyinini -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/26/2007 5:30:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

If you're single and willing, and haven't already, I'd suggest starting an Internet relationship with someone from across the world and without means to physically see you for a while.

You really get to know someone well and come to understand dynamics of emotions that are usually overlooked with such an experience.  If you spend hours together a day- hours of talking (hopefully you click that well)- you really get to know a lot about the other person, and yourself.  Just make sure the guy's deep.

Anyhow, I would suggest it as a learning experience.


First off...I'd like to hammer you for this suggestion, but I will NOT, BECAUSE for some, it is a personal link to another that they cannot achieve in person, for whatever reason.
 
I have a good friend who feels so intimately emotional with an Aussie dom, she needs to "be with him" daily on the internet.  She is married and does not get these needs met by her husband, not an excuse for her, just reality.
 
I hae 2 friends in London...one just a lonely fetish guy, rather switch in demeanor, the other a very young (23) rather dominant arrogant sob...I say that lovingly of him.
Both seem to enjoy my internet company .. rarely it happens cause of the time change,but we have kept company with each other for over 3 or 4 yrs now (yes, the 23 yr old was 19 ! and he still finds this old woman incredibly hot and sexy even in a portrait pic) but neveer have they met any of my needs other than sharing and freindship.  Yes I would love tomeetthemsome day...but it aint happening...some I feel this is an exercise in futility. 
 
Do I ignorethem when they IM me...some times, most times ... but sometimes I want to connect ....hell, what woman wouldnt love to be told the things they tell me.   Things have internally developed over years.  I am not sure if there would ever even be any external connection tho.... 
 
.............Internet is not the way to bond internally or externally  IMHO.
You have to see the eyes, hear the voice, feel the touch, read the body language....     JMHO
 
have a great holiday y'all................. am off to bond intimately [;)]
 
sworry wont correct spellin mistakes...pwease read through them



shyinini -> RE: Internal ~~ External bonding (5/26/2007 5:33:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite
Personally, I'd get a little stressed out if a man, dom or otherwise, wanted all those indepth discussions, but that's just my quirky, admittedly neurotic personality raising it's head. ;P


You share that information as trust and respect are developed.
 
Sir could say he knew me alot more than I realized as I saw consistency in his words and opened up more via letters over a time of 2 months.  He also paid attention to my blog entries and learned more that way.



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