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RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/22/2007 6:26:44 PM

TheHeretic

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Here's a crazy idea Simply, every time you speak about "Bush" in a context like your thread title, substitute the word "America." Any clue there about why you and I will be working for candidates with different letters next to their names in the year ahead?

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Post #: 21

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/22/2007 8:53:46 PM

iwannapullurhair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwannapullurhair

The Chinese also control the Panama Canal(Thank you Jimmy Carter). So they have numerous bases in our Hemisphere.

iwannapullyourhair:
I am unsure what you mean by this, could you expand on it for me please?
I am unaware of any military bases built by China in this hemisphere. If there are any could you please tell me where they are?
thompson

The Chinese government controls companies that control both sides of the Panama Canal. In the past, companies like this were owned by the PLA(Chinese Army). So it is a danger. They are not actual military bases.

As far as Missile technology, the Chinese can now hit any place in the US with Mervs-Multiple re-entry vehicles-so mulitple warheads per missile. That helps defeat anti-missile shields. This tech was transfered during the Clinton Administration. A large contributor to the Democrat party wanted to launch satellites from China. The Missiles kept failing. So thanks to his connections he was able to transfer the tech to make the missiles work better(without going to jail).

Even without that capability, any foe with shorter range missiles that has large scale land facilities and unfettered access close to the US can launch into the US. When I said bases, I meant these sort of large facilities-giant port facilities, huge areas for factories and the like. In the past, The US would have went nuts and invoked the Monroe Doctrine and kept those things out because of the perceived danger of other powers getting in our backyard.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 22

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/22/2007 9:46:55 PM

SimplyMichael

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What the fuck do you think the Chinese could do with bases? They have no blue water navy and the only other people who are good on the open ocean are on our side.

Chinese Mirvs? How many do they have in place and what is their accuracy? China is many things but they are not crazy and nuking the US isn't in their playbook. As long as we have morons like Bush they are winning every day.

The think that defeats anti-missle shields is they don't fucking work.

(in reply to iwannapullurhair)

Post #: 23

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/22/2007 10:06:30 PM

DomKen

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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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The Chinese military isn't a concern in the short or medium term.

The fact that they own most of the dollars in circulation should be a concern. As long as they own so much of our debt and so many dollars from our very steep imbalance of trade with them they have us by the short hairs and they know it. Get uppity and the chinese government dumps 50 or 100 billion dollars into the international exchange markets and the dollar's value crashes. With so much of what we buy manufactured elsewhere this would result in incredible inflation and empty shelves. Export businesses would do well even as they raised prices to keep up with the spiralling inflation rate but there is simply not enough export going on in the US to allow our economy to recover in any sort of short period. OPEC might see that moment as the ideal time to start selling oil in something other than dollars which would further harm our economy while strengthening the new currency of OPEC, likely the Euro. The US government and major companies would have enormous trouble financing debt since no one outside the US would want to buy dollars in the face of spiralling inflation rates which means a virtually complete halt to major economic expansion and to even short term federal borrowing which really is a necessity. IOW China can screw us at any time they want and there is not a thing we can do about in the short term..

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 24

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/22/2007 10:15:37 PM

Termyn8or

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Ok, M, so let's keep stomping around in the middle east in the name of our most sacred country, Israel. Let's piss everybody else off, they dump their dollars and gas will literally be $10 a gallon.

Let's just make sure Israel is OK and go to hell in a handbasket ourself. Let China go fuck herself, who holds what percentage of the national debt ?

Let China get pissed off and dump her dollars, then even without the stroke of a pen we will get what we want, to be isolationist. We won't be able to afford imports. That will have a positive effect on the trade deficit.

Keep the bombs coming, destroy our reputation competely so that most of the world is against us, then when our money is no good anymore we will find out who our real friends are.

And folks, we don't have any. Once the dollar is down we will need the troops in those 130 or so countries to defend our own borders.

Maybe when that hapopens we will stop electing traitors and assholes.

Maybe.

T

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 25

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/22/2007 11:03:20 PM

AusMaleOne

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O dear o dear. An Aussie here. Just calm down boys. The Chinese are well within their own borders when it comes of military bases. Just add up the number of countries the USA has bases and compare with China. So far as I am aware the Chinse have zilch, zero and no o/s bases except if you include - Tibet which they claim in any case as ancient Chinese territory [I don't know the details but assume they have some claim].

If you remember during the war in Vietnam all of SE Asia was to go communist if the USA and allies pulled out. Well, we all did and the sky did not fall in.

The USA has 737 bases in other people's countries. Rest well America - what on Earth are you worried about? The near hysteria that seems to consume the country from time to time is bizzare. You have more nukes, subs, warplanes, missiles than the rest of us put together. Get over it.

(in reply to iwannapullurhair)

Post #: 26

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 12:18:29 AM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The think that defeats anti-missle shields is they don't fucking work.

That was my first thought.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 27

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 12:20:47 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I would slap a 40% tarriff on Chinese goods (the amount their currency is undervalued) yank off most favored nation status and subsidize American industries that can compete with the revenue and sign trade agreements with China's competitors to buy subsitute goods from them. Of course that would take someone who wasn't all hat.

Protectionism won't work. Many American corporations are happy dealing with China as are the corporations of many other countries and I can't imagine many Americans who don't work for companies losing out to China, being willing to pay higher prices for the same quality goods just because they are made in America. A 40% tariff might keep Chineese good out of the US but what about other countries who will be happy to buy Chineese goods which will give their country a price advantage and help keep inflation low and so become more competitive? Germany exports about the same amount of manufactured goods as the USA so the US's problem is not price disadvantage, it is not making products other countries want. GM are only now facing up to this problem. American manufacturing companies have on the whole made goods for the home market and ignored export markets. America needs to get back to innovating and making products people in other countries want and stop spending money they don't have. Protectionism will hurt America more than China in the long run.

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 28

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 12:24:34 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AusMaleOne

The USA has 737 bases in other people's countries. Rest well America - what on Earth are you worried about? The near hysteria that seems to consume the country from time to time is bizzare. You have more nukes, subs, warplanes, missiles than the rest of us put together. Get over it.

I was way over it a long time ago.

I dont live in fear. I did my time being afraid growing up during the Cold War, and I came to the realization that the wisdom of my kindergarten teacher telling us all to learn to get along in the sandbox really was the key to success as a species.

I am ashamed that the Government elected by other people seems hell bent to present to the United States people the Boogie Man of Fear of Them. (Where Them are those who would destroy us)

I tend to agree with most of the rest of the world; they have a lot more to fear from those in charge of the US than the US has to fear from them.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to AusMaleOne)

Post #: 29

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 12:40:15 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The arabs have proven over and over again numbers and technology are no match for dedicated and well trained troops. China's military isn't ready to take Taiwan so lets get serious. Their plan is to destroy our economy and Bush is working as hard as he can to help them out.

I despised Clinton for opening the doors to China but in the long run I think it was a good idea. They have been largely brought into the modern world, however, we need to slow their expansion down and make them work a bit harder for it. Allowing them to keep their currency low is fucking our economy but Bush needs that to happen to finance his buddies raping of the US treasury so it doesn't bother him at all.

Pretty much sounds like treason to me although thank god he hasn't done anything really horrible or destructive like get a blow job, that would REALLY be something we would have to get outraged about.

There is no evidence other than American paranoia that China wants to destroy the US and why would they, there is no advantage for them in destroying the US. What appears to be making Americans nervous is that their world supremacy is under threat but that is under threat because of America itself, not because of the Chineese. It is quite clear that America has lost its confidence. Making widgets for the domestic market isn't going to maintain American supremacy and those that think it will are deluding themselves, it is best to let China make them for fraction of the price. America has to do what it claims to be good at, innovating and and selling. The US had a clear run after WWII but now competitors are catching up, caught up and in some areas over taking. No amount of handwringing is going to make other countries shrink back into their shell and as Iraq as proved, supremacy can't be kept through military action. Americans need to stop spending beyond their means and compete through innovation and providing the best services. It's the economy that keeps a country on top of the pile, not missiles and warheads, they never saved the USSR from collapsing.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 30

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 12:50:20 AM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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Anthony Swofford in Jarhead points out that the magazine on an M-16 is manufactured in China. He said that in order to get it to work correctly requires a certain amount of monkeying around due to the faulty tolerances.

What I find fascinating is that the company that makes the M-16 rifle for the United States military farmed out part (or all) of the manufacture of our primary infantry rifle to China.

Our government had no problem with them doing this.

As was pointed out, China does not gain anything by destroying the United States economy at this time. If there ever comes a time when they gain something destroying the US economy, we will be dropped like 4th period Spanish.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 31

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 7:55:27 AM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iwannapullurhair

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwannapullurhair

The Chinese also control the Panama Canal(Thank you Jimmy Carter). So they have numerous bases in our Hemisphere.

iwannapullyourhair:
I am unsure what you mean by this, could you expand on it for me please?
I am unaware of any military bases built by China in this hemisphere. If there are any could you please tell me where they are?
thompson

The Chinese government controls companies that control both sides of the Panama Canal. In the past, companies like this were owned by the PLA(Chinese Army). So it is a danger. They are not actual military bases.

As far as Missile technology, the Chinese can now hit any place in the US with Mervs-Multiple re-entry vehicles-so mulitple warheads per missile. That helps defeat anti-missile shields. This tech was transfered during the Clinton Administration. A large contributor to the Democrat party wanted to launch satellites from China. The Missiles kept failing. So thanks to his connections he was able to transfer the tech to make the missiles work better(without going to jail).

Even without that capability, any foe with shorter range missiles that has large scale land facilities and unfettered access close to the US can launch into the US. When I said bases, I meant these sort of large facilities-giant port facilities, huge areas for factories and the like. In the past, The US would have went nuts and invoked the Monroe Doctrine and kept those things out because of the perceived danger of other powers getting in our backyard.

iwannapullurhair:
It would appear that you have somewhat retracted your statement that the Chinese have bases in Panama. What problem do you have with them having business there? What problem do you have with Carter and the treaty on the Panama Canal as it now stands?
thompson

(in reply to iwannapullurhair)

Post #: 32

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 8:31:18 AM

caitlyn

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Joined: 12/22/2004
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General response ...

China would be very dangerous militarily, precisely because they are so weak militarily. If it ever came to blows, they would not be able to compete with the United States military, with the eventual result of competing in the only way they could.

In a way, the former Soviet Union was a less dangerous opponent, because they were strong enough to fight conventional wars with the United States, through client states. If you assume that big dogs will eventually come to blows, which history supports, China is far more dangerous than the Soviets ever were.

An odd things ... the awesome power of America's conventional military, may be making us less safe, as it relates to China.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 33

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 9:07:42 AM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

General response ...

China would be very dangerous militarily, precisely because they are so weak militarily. If it ever came to blows, they would not be able to compete with the United States military, with the eventual result of competing in the only way they could.

In a way, the former Soviet Union was a less dangerous opponent, because they were strong enough to fight conventional wars with the United States, through client states. If you assume that big dogs will eventually come to blows, which history supports, China is far more dangerous than the Soviets ever were.

An odd things ... the awesome power of America's conventional military, may be making us less safe, as it relates to China.

caitlyn:
The awesome power of America's conventional military does not seem to be doing very well in Iraq.
thompson

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 34

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 9:10:16 AM

Lordandmaster

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I'm just wondering (for all those people who seem to think we're about to get into a war with China): Where and over what?

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 35

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 9:21:12 AM

SimplyMichael

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I suggested the 40% tarriff because that is the equivelent of how much China subsidizes their exports. Instead of letting their currency float, meaning allow it to adjust to the reality of the market, they peg it artificially low to the US dollar, about 40% below it's true value. That makes US goods too expensive for most Chinese and makes Chinese exports too cheap to refuse.

China is waging economic war against the US. They allow rampant piracy of intellectual property, our MAIN export. They encourage our budget deficit by artifically floating the US dollar, they are sucking money out of this country like a vacuum, they are intent on replacing us as a world power. They just aren't dumb enough to try and do it by invading the ME or attacking us directly. Instead they simply sell us the rope with which to hang ourselves, funny we are buying it from a Communist country, that should make Kruscheve quite happy.

As for China owning US debt, they own about 30% of the US Gov. securities which is a lot but if we had someone with more than 20 braincells firing, we could start dealing with it. Carter and Clinton managed to lower the deficit, hell even Bush's dad didn't do to bad. Borrow and squander Republicans like raygun and dipstick however are playing right into China's hands.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 36

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 9:22:53 AM

SimplyMichael

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Thompson,

Iraq isn't China, she stated conventional forces because any combat with China, at least open combat, is not going to be urban guerilla warfare. The reasons we lost in Iraq have nothing to do with military capacity and everything to do with a complete and utter lack of competent leadership and vision.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 37

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 9:24:37 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm just wondering (for all those people who seem to think we're about to get into a war with China): Where and over what?

I think they got the ass at us using the Grumman's name thingie.As for where, I suppose we will have to do it here on this earth.

Hope you found this informative.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 38

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 9:42:56 AM

caitlyn

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Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
caitlyn:
The awesome power of America's conventional military does not seem to be doing very well in Iraq.
thompson

Limited warfare, with alternate objectives have no baring on larger-scale warfare with singular objectives.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 39

RE: Chinese Bitch Slap Bush - 5/23/2007 10:04:09 AM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
caitlyn:
The awesome power of America's conventional military does not seem to be doing very well in Iraq.
thompson

Limited warfare, with alternate objectives have no baring on larger-scale warfare with singular objectives.

Incorrect, caitlyn.

Warfare, 70 years ago, involved attacking a country, conquering their army, and forcing the sitting Government to sue for peace. A sort of macabre game of Capture The Flag.

Modern warfare involves fighting an army, generally without a centralized Government, and attempting to hold territory which involves fighting insurgencies who have nothing to lose and all the time in the world to sit around and dream up new ways to start trouble.

This is why we are having trouble in Iraq. When Saddam faced us with an army, we blew him away. But attempting to hold territory in Iraq is doomed to failure, in the same sense that attempting to hold territory in Vietnam was doomed to failure. There is no centralized government in place.

The Al Qaeda boogey man amuses me, because with the capture of Al Qaeda's computers in Afghanistan, and the neutralization of their forces worldwide, the group might number 500 people with no real means of hooking up with each other or organizing large scale operations. Again, no centralized controlling government.

We could blow away any army the Chinese field against us.

Then what? Iraq, only instead of 40 million people we have 1/3 of the world's population to manage.

Sinergy

p.s. China is upgrading their military using their vast cash reserves and stolen technology to develop an army which the United States military cannot blow away, which is why AnencephalyBoy and Shotgun were both snubbed when they tried to convince the Chinese to stop investing so much money in their military. The US spends more militarily than the rest of the world combined.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 40

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